315 Question: What light wind Sail are you using to handle beam to broad reach? Furling Genneker, Doyle UPS, Code 0, whisker pole on the Genoa?

[VFR750]

Title says it all. For a 315 did you add a second headsail, and what did you go with?

During the summer, Long Island Sound, and particularly Fisher Island Sound, have two interesting features

1. 5kt+ air from the south west is the norm and generally an East-West orientation, which implies you are tacking to go West, or running downwind to go East.
2. 1-2+ kt tidal currents, plus the LIS/Atlantic tides colliding at the entrances to FIS, combined with some fetch, creating 2-3' swells that are really close together; bumpy.

After 1 season on our 315, I find the Main+135% Genoa isn't quite enough for downwind to power through the rougher patches in a broad reach. Often the jib collapses and has to refill, making forward progress slow, or non-existent (going backwards with the current) We do not have a whisker pole.

We are short-handed sailing, so a Spinnaker and Full Asymmetric is not on the list.

I am considering a North Sails "Furling Gennaker" or something similar

Has anyone solved this kind of problem, and what did you do? Would you do it again or something else?

I can talk to the sail makers, but I like some input from the users.

 

[valcour]

In light air (under 10kt) I launch and fly a symmetrical spinnaker by myself when the admiral is below napping on a C310 WK. We do have a pole to make this work. In lighter air, it is better than the iron jenny. Give it a try, not that hard you can handle it, and just douse or wake the admiral if it pipes up.

 

[smokey73]

I use a Code Zero on a continuous liner furler attached to the bale on the Anchor Roller. It works pretty well and is easy to handle single handed on my 40 foot boat.

 

[DaveJ]

The idea of a code 0 or similar with a fuller is excellent, but $$$$. I use a whisker pole that I bought used. I put an ad in our local sailing club newsletter, best $200 that I’ve spent on the boat. Doesn’t solve all your issues but great for many situations.
cheers

 

[chuckwayne]

We use a Doyle UPS in a sock - you can also use a furler - and it works great in the situation you describe. in light winds a real power boost from close reach to about 135 degrees, stable and easy to set and retrieve. I can set and retrieve singlehanded with the autopilot steering and it's much more flexible than the much larger spinnaker we fly downwind.

 

[john2]

we use a genaker with sock

 

[VFR750]

We use a Doyle UPS in a sock - you can also use a furler - and it works great in the situation you describe. in light winds a real power boost from close reach to about 135 degrees, stable and easy to set and retrieve. I can set and retrieve singlehanded with the autopilot steering and it's much more flexible than the much larger spinnaker we fly downwind.

Why did you go with the sock?

I assume you have to go on the foredeck to douse the ups, true?

 

[john2]

I liked the colors of the sail and the sock was included (second hands sail). A furler ads an onother 500 - 1000$

You need to go on fore deck , yes. and some one needs to control the sheet at same time.
A good sailbag makes it easy in use . It takes no more than 10 min to set the sail.

 

[VFR750]

I think having to go forward in bumpy conditions, to raise a spinnaker and then douse it with a sock, is the prime reason for me, to go with a furler design.

I want to stay in the cockpit as much as possible.

which also tempers my enthusiasm for a whisker pole.

 

[chuckwayne]

Why did you go with the sock?

I assume you have to go on the foredeck to douse the ups, true?

yes - but it's easy to do. I added the assym chute first, and then the ups. since I use both, a second sock made more sense - the sails in socks are easy to handle and set or store, I would need a furler with multiple furler cables and a larger size to accommodate the chute - at the time expensive and hard to store. It's easy to go forward on Escape - nice wide decks, and if I thought it was needed I could extend the set/douse loop so that it could lead to the cockpit instead of the foredeck.

 

[JRT]

I'm not as experienced, but after talking with Precision sail, I went with a Code 0 made for my boat. It does fly easy downwind in 5 kts or less of wind for me.

 

[VFR750]

I ended up choosing the "Easy Furling Gennaker" from North Sails with a top-down furler and the lines run back to the cockpit.

I met Jack Orr, of North Sails, at the Newport Boat Show. He gave a presentation on the different furling systems. He gave me quotes for their Code 0 with UV panel (called the G0), the "Helix Furling" Gennaker with UV panel , a G2 with a sock, and the "easy furling" Gennaker (EFG). These are significantly different size sails with corresponding different cloth weights.

I felt the EFG would give me the best downwind performance, without having to go to a G2 with a sock or Spinnaker.

For my 315 the EFG is about 54.6 m^2 (~600 sqft) of lightweight 0.75oz nylon. That's more than 2x my 135% Genoa.

I didn't want to go with the smaller size and heavier weight construction of the G0 (2.0 oz) and Helix (1.2 oz) and risk them not being as effective in really light air.

I really struggles with the choice between the Helix Furling and EFG. I just felt the whole point was very light air, and the lighter weight EFG should be less likely to deflate in bouncy waters. Jack did say the EFG will fly deeper downwind than the Helix, and this was also mentioned in one of their YouTube videos on sails, at around 48:30

I will have to raise it and take it down each day, but, I can do this on the mooring with little to no stress.

2025 is when I'll find out how much better downwind sailing can be.

 

[Perphoto Canada]

I ended up choosing the "Easy Furling Gennaker" from North Sails with a top-down furler and the lines run back to the cockpit.

I met Jack Orr, of North Sails, at the Newport Boat Show. He gave a presentation on the different furling systems. He gave me quotes for their Code 0 with UV panel (called the G0), the "Helix Furling" Gennaker with UV panel , a G2 with a sock, and the "easy furling" Gennaker (EFG). These are significantly different size sails with corresponding different cloth weights.

I felt the EFG would give me the best downwind performance, without having to go to a G2 with a sock or Spinnaker.

For my 315 the EFG is about 54.6 m^2 (~600 sqft) of lightweight 0.75oz nylon. That's more than 2x my 135% Genoa.

I didn't want to go with the smaller size and heavier weight construction of the G0 (2.0 oz) and Helix (1.2 oz) and risk them not being as effective in really light air.

I really struggles with the choice between the Helix Furling and EFG. I just felt the whole point was very light air, and the lighter weight EFG should be less likely to deflate in bouncy waters. Jack did say the EFG will fly deeper downwind than the Helix, and this was also mentioned in one of their YouTube videos on sails, at around 48:30
View attachment 227956

I will have to raise it and take it down each day, but, I can do this on the mooring with little to no stress.

2025 is when I'll find out how much better downwind sailing can be.

I was wondering if you got your furling Gennaker for your 315. I am also interested in doing this. for my 315

 

[VFR750]

We got the Easy Furling Gennaker from North Sails. It is like the G1 This is what I learned along the way.

We used it several times. Overall it worked well, although it needs at least 7-8kts to stay inflated in the bouncy waters of LI sound. Which is a little higher wind speed than I expected.

It is pretty easy to raise in the morning and take down at the end of the day. But we have raised and lowered it while sailing.

Downwind it is good up to ~ 150 AWA, but is happiest in the 140 range. In 11-15kt the boat moves very quickly. When it gets closer 150 AWA I have been furling the main a little to let more air get to the gennaker. <-- this is where a whisker pole might be a good addition.

We did a lap of Fisher Island on the 4th of July, and while we were heading east after going through the race, we unfurled the gennaker. For the first time we tried gybing it. We did it a few times. Furl it in, gybe, furl it out. Overall pretty easy. Takes a good 30-40 seconds to completely furl it. It only takes about 2-4 seconds to unfurl.

The Karver KF 1.5 top down furler works pretty well, especially after I installed two soft shackles on the tack. One shackle on each ring on the tack to the pivot bearing. Initially the two tack rings were tied together at the bearing with loops of dyneema. The tack and cable would hang up the pivot bearing. This prevented the top from unfurling completely.

In the picture you can see how the top had not fully unfurled.

The two soft shackles at the tack solved the problem.

We did have an issue when the wind picked up to 20kt with 20+Kt gusts. It started to unfurl! This was mostly due to user error. As the wind blew, it was hard to re-furl it properly, and it got a little tangled on itself. There was a portion that was loose and flapping. Not good!

Our solution was to start the engine, furl the main, and motor quickly downwind to lower the apparent wind speed. I went forward and took it down as is. That was exciting.

The problem was the sail comes with a large velcro pacth at the clew, that should have kept the sail tightly furled, but we must not have completely settled the velcro halves. We also didn't furl it as tightly as we should have. The wind started pulling it open and the furler line was not cleated. I initially grabbed the wrong side and made it worse. A learning experience.... I have learned to cleat the furling line as a secondary measure.

As for the whisker pole, I think we will also get one. I think polling out either the 135% Genoa, or the Gennaker will extend the usefulness of both sails to get a true downwind run.

If I were to do it over again, I might prioritze the whisker pole over the gennaker.

But, ours looks so cool when it is open and flying.

 

[Perphoto Canada]

Thanks for the info I appreciate it . One more question how is it attached to the bow is it on the existing d ring l attached a photo of my anchor bow spirit or did you install a Bow spirit pole?

 

[VFR750]

The furler attaches to this strap. It is the load path in the bow sprit

The tricky part is the furler, spinnaker halyard attachment and the sail itself must be in front of the pulpit railing.

It's a bit of a stretch to reach that hole in the sprit through the gap between the headsail and the pulpit stanchions.

I added a big snap shackle onto the furler, and use that to attach to the strap. It makes it easier to lock it in place and remove when my arms are extended through that gap.

 

[Perphoto Canada]

Awesome that's exactly how I was thinking of doing mine. Thanks for the info