302 Keel Drop Update

[Mackaroni]

I dropped my keel on Friday afternoon and it seemed pretty straight forward. In talking with Rudy (formally with Oday), he said that the keels were originally sealed with 5283, which was a version of 5200 that was never marketed to the public. I didn't find that to be the case. My keel had a polysulfide-like product sealing it as you can see from this video when we actually dropped it which leads me to believe that somewhere in the past this keel was dropped before. The actual drop was a lot easier than I had anticipated.

http://vid1295.photobucket.com/albums/b623/ice5c4tl/Oday%20302%20Refit/IMG_8595_zpscng1war5.mp4


Just after I dropped it:

I didn't take any close up pictures of the bolts, but they are not corroded. This is before I cleaned them up:

I will take some closer up photos later which show them after all the gunk is off of them. But, my worries that the bolts were corroded were unfounded. What I did find as we prepared the keel to come off was that the bolts were no where near tightened to the specified torque. Not even close.

As promised, I have taken some pictures of the thickness of the keel stub and have them here to show you. As a disclaimer, you can add at least 1/8 inch to each of these measurements as there was that much play in the metal tab of my tape measure and where the measuring tape has actually starts:

EDIT: The measurements are between 3/4-7/8 inches (closer to 7/8) for all three holes. I didn't realize I had a washer on the forward bolt when I took the photo. I will update photos soon....the ones I took to update it were not of decent quality.

Here is the forward large bolt hole:

Here is the middle bolt hole:

Here is the aft large bolt hole:

My tape measure was too large to fit in the aft small bolt hole, so I don't have that measurement.

What I did find that I don't like after I cleaned some of the sealant off was that there are cracks emanating from the actual holes, some deeper than others.

Forward bolt hole:

Middle bolt hole:

Aft bolt hole:

The aft bolt hole seems to be the worst. Not sure how I am going to fix this just yet. It would be nice if I could just fill it with epoxy, but I know it needs to hold 280 psi so it needs to be strong. I wouldn't mind advice on how to fix this.

I have read a couple of posts detailing worries that there could possibly be a wood core in the stub. I can attest that this not the case in my boat, and that it is a solid fiberglass layup.

I also noticed that the bolt forward and aft bolt holes seem to be drilled oversize. I neglected to measure this, but will do so this afternoon when I return to the boat. I know it is still filthy, but you can see without a tape measure the difference:

Each of the bolts had just a washer instead of a backing plate with the exception of the middle bolt, which you can see here has a 4" x 4" (ish- didn't measure) backing plate with a connection point for the bonding wire. I had planned on building a backing plate from 3/8 stainless that covered all three bolts, which was a suggestion that Rudy gave. However, the one plate shown here seems to be glassed to the bilge and I am not sure how to get it out without destroying some glass. I guess I could always just make two more backing plates instead of one for all three bolts.

So, I will take closer photos of the bolts and measurements of the holes when I go back to the boat, but I thought this would enough to post for now.

For anyone who is interested, my O'day 302 is a 1988 model.

 

[Mackaroni]

BTW....anyone know how I can embed the video or is a link the best I can do?

 

[jibes138]

Great info thank you much. I'd use an oscillating tool to get the backing plate out. Then for each hole make a backing plate and put mold release on it. Then put some epoxy thickened with glass fibers where each backing plate is going. Use a bolt to clamp down the backing plate while it cures. Now you'll have a flat surface in the bilge to spread the load. Now look into some spherical washers to put under the nuts to allow for misalignment of the keel bolts if you can get them in stainless. As far as the fracturing is it just the gel coat or in the laminate? If the bolts are long enough add some laminate in the bilge but ask an expert about the fracturing, they might recommend grinding it out and new laminate.

 

[Mackaroni]

Got the plate out by wacking it this afternoon and cleaned the bilge up.

 

[GregL564]

As another option for reinforcing the keel sump, and depending on how much thread you have on top of your keel bolts (because it will be thicker than stainless), consider using g-10. That stuff is incredibly strong, relatively inexpensive, can be cut to shape, and it can be fiber-glassed in place.

 

[Maine Sail]

Thanks for the update. This is now a question of some boats being built with thick stubs and some leaving the factory with paper thin stubs. Scary stuff if you don't know which one you have a Monday or a Friday boat.....


This image is also cause for concern as some of those cracks seem to go all the way through. I would get a fiberglass structural guy in to see what they say. I would not be putting the keel back on until those cracks are know to be safe.

 

[Phil Herring]

Mackaroni - click the Go Advanced button at the bottom of the thread, then the little YouTube icon in the toolbar.

 

[Sunbird22358]

Your tape measure is SUPPOSED to have that "play", I originally thought mine was loose, then found out that the tab is meant to move. This allows both inside and outside measurements to be taken (slide tab towards rest of tape means that dimension starts at outer edge of tab, slide out away from rest of tape to get acurate measurement with tab hooked over end of what you are measuring)

In other words, that "hook" on the end of the yellow tape measure should move enough that the outside edge when slid towards tape should line up with where hte inner edge of that tab would be if slid away from tape.

 

[the_alpine]

Thanks so much for keeping us posted, us fellow 302 owners appreciate it!

So did you need to remove the mast to drop the keel?

 

[Mackaroni]

Yes, the mast had to come off because the forward bolt is located under the table pedestal and there is no way to get a wrench on it without taking the pedestal off. Maybe there is some other genius way, but I didn't want to put a jack underneath the mast from the inside and take a chance of screwing a lot of stuff up.

 

[SailingCal21]

Thanks for the update and extensive pictures and video of the process, while I've read quite a bit about it, it's good to see the information.

At first the cracks looked like (or I wanted them to be) surface, but it does look like at least one of the cracks is several layers into the laminate, which is unsettling. Particularly, the one that Mainsail points out. Perhaps by now you've had a chance to clean up the holes and resolved that the cracks are not that significant.

Best of luck.

 

[Mackaroni]

I talked to a professional fiberglass guy today and am going to contract out to have it fixed properly. He is going to fix all of the cracks, including the ones that don't seem to be so deep.

We are also going to add some buildup to the bilge area to bring the total thickness up to an inch. I might also fashion a 3/8 SS backing plate that covers the three large bolts after the glass work is done. At the very least I make individual backing plates for each bolt instead of just the washer.

I don't mind doing some glass work, but I don't want to play around with anything below the water line, so I think it is best to have it done. Will take pix and show you what we come up with, but it might be a couple of weeks before he can get to it.

 

[jibes138]

Just curious if you think the cracks were caused by the keel "working" from not having the bolts fully torqued, or do you think it was from a hard grounding? It seems doubtful that with the thickness of the fiberglass on your tape measure that the fiberglass would just fracture for no apparent reason. You might want to strip the paint on the keel and see if the leading edge has evidence of repair. Or the boat may have been "dropped" on the bottom of the keel when hauled. You are making a wise decision to get a pro in to fix that area of the boat. Good luck with the repairs and thanks for keeping us posted.

Here's a link to those spherical washers I told you about earlier, and they do come in stainless steel. I'd still use backing plates, but then these washers will allow for the misalignment if the studs are not perfectly perpendicular to the bilge surface. These washers are used by toolmakers in jigs and fixtures and seem like a good application to keel bolts. I don't see sizes in the 1 inch range in stainless from this supplier, perhaps a search at other places will find some.
http://www.carrlane.com/Catalog/ind...006280B1713050245221E0107070F1A3C3B2853504558

I found the washers in McMaster-Carr. Here's the link and pretty reasonable pricing compared to other sources at 17 bucks each for 1 inch stainless. http://www.mcmaster.com/#springs/=x1ns8u

Note: 18-8 stainless steel is equivalent to 304 stainless. 18 percent chrome and 8 percent nickel.

 

[MaritimeTees]

Yes, the mast had to come off because the forward bolt is located under the table pedestal and there is no way to get a wrench on it without taking the pedestal off. Maybe there is some other genius way, but I didn't want to put a jack underneath the mast from the inside and take a chance of screwing a lot of stuff up.

I think the cracks are from either the bolts not tight enough or beaching it. I have the 272 1989 and my manual specifically says do not beach/ground it because the wing keel is not designed for this. I think they beached it and had a problem and tried to fix it. That would be my guess. Now you have to fix their screw up.

 

[Pat]

my 272 manual whiich was for the late 1986 model said only: "do not support the weight of the boat on the keel wings" which made a great deal of sense...almost everyone I know has had a brush with grounding and survived without doing permanent damage to their boats.....good luck...Pat

 

[Jackdaw]

I would not just go to a 'fiberglass guy'. I would find a qualified structural marine engineer.

The UK report on the Cheeki Rafeeki accident came out last week. The vast majority of the blame was apportioned to the use of an unapproved process/repair for repairing a keel area damaged after a grounding. O'day is gone of course, so you can't ask them. But I'd find the biggest brain I could.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I would not just go to a 'fiberglass guy'. I would find a qualified structural marine engineer.
<snip>.

I think Jackdaw has given some really, really good advice here. This is a super critical repair. I wish you all the best with it.

 

[the_alpine]

Hey Mack - any updates? Howd you get along with the repairs/reattachment?

 

[Mackaroni]

I finished the keel repair about a month ago and the keel has been reattached! Everything went well and I am looking forward to moving on to the next project. I will post some photos when I can, but I am currently traveling for the next few weeks for work.

 

[the_alpine]

Nice, thanks for keeping us posted. This may be in my near future. Any idea as a rough estimate for the price of the keel work specifically?