any owners out there know if the prop shaft on these boats can be removed with the rudder in place?
302/322 shaft removal
- Thread starter the_alpine
- Start date
I don't know, but am very interested in the answer. While inspecting the shaft on my O'Day 322, I noticed this crack, that does not look good. If I did more than day sail, I would have pulled the shaft already. But looking at options to reshaft and how to get the shaft out without cutting it.
The photos look pretty scary, but I can't really tell that is some sort of scratch (doesn't really look like it) or a serious fracture. I am going to try to remove the coupling using my strut bearing removal setup, and see if I can get the shaft past the rudder. It will be a while before I try this though.(it is getting damned cold in the Chicago area).
Greg
The photos look pretty scary, but I can't really tell that is some sort of scratch (doesn't really look like it) or a serious fracture. I am going to try to remove the coupling using my strut bearing removal setup, and see if I can get the shaft past the rudder. It will be a while before I try this though.(it is getting damned cold in the Chicago area).
Greg
most boat manufacturers off set the p shaft just enough so that you don't have to drop the rudder to get the p shaft off. it's not a problem to get your p shaft off . if you have a coupling like an Aquadrive or Centa be sure to get the manufacturer instructions on reassembling that coupling and checking face out when you re install. and might as well replace the Cutless bearing while u r at it. a yard will have a Cutless bearing tool you can use or borrow, with it that's a 15 minute project...
I changed the Cutlass bearing 2 years ago when I first bought the boat. My brother in law made a nice removal tool based on my drawing. Worked great. I had home fabricate an extra plate that I should be able to use to press the shaft out of the coupling....
Greg
Greg
Looks like crack. Looks like you used some abrasive and its still there. If it doesn't polish out you mostly likely have a crack that will only get worse. In a former life I spent a lot of time around machine shops and associated QC. What is the price of a new shaft? I assume it is some sort of Nickel/Copper based alloy like Monel. Very pricey. The right machine shop can us a dye penetrant and black light to see how big the crack is. You could check and see if it can be ground out, welded and reground and straighten. Depends on the material. All that may cost more than a new shaft.
I agree. And yes, I tried to rub it with some emery cloth to clean the shaft and see if it was indeed a crack. Not sure if something like that can be inspected with a dye penetrent or not.
I think the best course of action will be to pull the shaft and send it to a marine shop for inspection and possible replacement (which is why I would like to take it out intact).
When t around to trying to remove it, I will try to take a video of the process.
Greg
I think the best course of action will be to pull the shaft and send it to a marine shop for inspection and possible replacement (which is why I would like to take it out intact).
When t around to trying to remove it, I will try to take a video of the process.
Greg
Greg, thank you for reporting back to us when you do this in the spring. I will surely have to tackle this at some point in the future.
For an amusing, yet functional solution to the problem, see the attached picture. Most folks would fill the hole in again when they are done, this owner has not done so yet, perhaps he plans to leave it for the next time.
For an amusing, yet functional solution to the problem, see the attached picture. Most folks would fill the hole in again when they are done, this owner has not done so yet, perhaps he plans to leave it for the next time.
Pretty sure it is not possible to remove the shaft without dropping the rudder.
Also - you 302/322 owners out there - how much up and down play do you have in your rudder shaft? I've got about a half inch of movement and no obvious way of locking it in place short of repositioning the quadrant .
Also - you 302/322 owners out there - how much up and down play do you have in your rudder shaft? I've got about a half inch of movement and no obvious way of locking it in place short of repositioning the quadrant .
Could not wait until spring to start on this shaft project.. .
So, the good news is that I was able to press the coupling off the shaft using my cutlass bearing / prop removal tool. Took 2 days with some adjustments to tooling and approach on day 2, but the coupling came off clean. Terrible, cramped place to work. Took lots of muscle.
I placed a socket in the end of the coupling, sort of blind as it was up against the transmission . I forgot an inspection mirror. I could not budge the shaft on day 1. But I snapped this photo to try and see what was going on. Looks like 1) the socket was too large diameter, and 2) not centered ...so it was pushing on the key as well as the rim of the coupling. On day 2, I used a much smaller diameter socket to ensure it was not hitting the key or the rim of the coupling.
Another note, if you tried to use the transmission output flange, it would be near impossible (at least on a Yanmar 2GM20...there is just enough room behind the output flange to get a nut on the 4 bolts that hold the coupling and tranny output flange together. You cannot run a long bolt into that nut as it will hit the tranny. I suppose you could pull the output flange, and then use it, but I am not sure what is involved with that.
The bad news is that shaft will not clear the rudder...at least not on my first try. I plan to remove the stuffing box and shaft log and see if that gives me any lateral play in the shaft. I am sure I could bend it past the rudder, but if I replace it, which is likely, I need to know how I am going to get the new one in without bending it.
I will post a video of the coupling removal tomorrow. It will be a month before I get back out to remove the stuffing box and shaft log to see if that gives me any room to move the shaft.
Next up....learning how to drop a rudder...damn, I was hoping to avoid that. But I guess it is more practical than trying to move the strut...
Greg
So, the good news is that I was able to press the coupling off the shaft using my cutlass bearing / prop removal tool. Took 2 days with some adjustments to tooling and approach on day 2, but the coupling came off clean. Terrible, cramped place to work. Took lots of muscle.
I placed a socket in the end of the coupling, sort of blind as it was up against the transmission . I forgot an inspection mirror. I could not budge the shaft on day 1. But I snapped this photo to try and see what was going on. Looks like 1) the socket was too large diameter, and 2) not centered ...so it was pushing on the key as well as the rim of the coupling. On day 2, I used a much smaller diameter socket to ensure it was not hitting the key or the rim of the coupling. Another note, if you tried to use the transmission output flange, it would be near impossible (at least on a Yanmar 2GM20...there is just enough room behind the output flange to get a nut on the 4 bolts that hold the coupling and tranny output flange together. You cannot run a long bolt into that nut as it will hit the tranny. I suppose you could pull the output flange, and then use it, but I am not sure what is involved with that.
The bad news is that shaft will not clear the rudder...at least not on my first try. I plan to remove the stuffing box and shaft log and see if that gives me any lateral play in the shaft. I am sure I could bend it past the rudder, but if I replace it, which is likely, I need to know how I am going to get the new one in without bending it.
I will post a video of the coupling removal tomorrow. It will be a month before I get back out to remove the stuffing box and shaft log to see if that gives me any room to move the shaft.
Next up....learning how to drop a rudder...damn, I was hoping to avoid that. But I guess it is more practical than trying to move the strut...
Greg
Here is the video of the coupling removal.
Not sure if removing the stuffing box and shaft log will give me any lateral play in the shaft to clear the rudder or not (doubtful). If not, I will look at lossening the rudder (top and bottom bearings) to see if I can get the shaft past it. If that fails, I guess it will require lifting the boat in the lift to drop the rudder. But I am buried a few boats deep in the yard, so it won't happen for a while.
Any body have any other ideas, I am all ears
Greg
Not sure if removing the stuffing box and shaft log will give me any lateral play in the shaft to clear the rudder or not (doubtful). If not, I will look at lossening the rudder (top and bottom bearings) to see if I can get the shaft past it. If that fails, I guess it will require lifting the boat in the lift to drop the rudder. But I am buried a few boats deep in the yard, so it won't happen for a while.
Any body have any other ideas, I am all ears
Greg
Thanks for taking the time to post a video!
If you're replacing the shaft, why not just cut it out? Of course, that doesn't help with reinstalling....
What is your rudder configuration? On my 302 it looks to be as "simple" as removing the quadrant from the rudder tube and lowering her down.
If you're replacing the shaft, why not just cut it out? Of course, that doesn't help with reinstalling....
What is your rudder configuration? On my 302 it looks to be as "simple" as removing the quadrant from the rudder tube and lowering her down.
Alpine...I have not looked at the rudde configuration yet. Once I pull the shaft log and see if I can clear the rudder with the shaft, that will be the next step.
I am hoping to save the shaft so: 1) I can have it inspected to see if it does need to be replaced and 2) if it needs replaced to get accurate measurements for a replacement (or take it to a prop shop and them duplicate it).
My rudder seems very tight-no lateral or vertical play in it, so I don't have another reason to drop it. And I will need to get the boat in the lift, and I am buried a few boats deep in the storage yard. So any option that does not require dropping the rudder is a good one. But cutting the shaft gets the old out, and I still need to get a new one installed.
Will keep everyone posted as this progresses.
Greg
I am hoping to save the shaft so: 1) I can have it inspected to see if it does need to be replaced and 2) if it needs replaced to get accurate measurements for a replacement (or take it to a prop shop and them duplicate it).
My rudder seems very tight-no lateral or vertical play in it, so I don't have another reason to drop it. And I will need to get the boat in the lift, and I am buried a few boats deep in the storage yard. So any option that does not require dropping the rudder is a good one. But cutting the shaft gets the old out, and I still need to get a new one installed.
Will keep everyone posted as this progresses.
Greg
Well, 60 degrees in Chicago today, so went out to the Marina one more time to try and get the shaft out. My plan was to remove the shaft log and stuffing box to see if that gained a little play on the shaft. Also pressed out the cutlass bearing and that provided a fair amount of lateral play in the shaft. I scratched the paint on the rudder a little, but the shaft came out.
I am pretty confident I can get a new one in the same way the old one came out!
No dropping the rudder!
So, the answer to the original post is YES, you can (at least on the 322) get the shaft out without dropping the rudder.
Greg
I am pretty confident I can get a new one in the same way the old one came out!
No dropping the rudder!
So, the answer to the original post is YES, you can (at least on the 322) get the shaft out without dropping the rudder.
Greg
Last edited:
Congrats, Greg. And thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. Really interesting, and extremely helpful.
The hardest part was getting the coupling off the shaft. If you are replacing the whole deal, just cut it off. I should be able to get the new shaft in past the rudder. Once I decide where to order it, I will let you know how easy it goes back in.
Greg
Greg
Greg, Thank you for the great video work you are doing. It certainly will help others. Since you are making what should be the definitive how-to for shaft removal for the 322, I thought I would add a bit since there are many alternative methods.
This is not intended as a "you should have done that" post because your logic is was fine and many would have done the same. First off I would never be afraid of dropping the rudder. People have dug holes , raised the boat using boat stands, not always necessary to use a lift. Getting familiar with the steering gear while the boat is on the hard is much better than a stormy day. Making the decision to replace the shaft before work starts (bend shaft, too much wear around the stuffing box, adding a PSS shaft seal) can save you days of work but this sounds like my third grade teacher telling me to look up the spelling of a word that I don't know how to spell. Cutting the shaft will allow you to press the prop and the coupling flange out using a press at your local shop. The cutlass bearing can be cut and removed in minutes with the shaft removed. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/replacing_a_cutlass
Don't use a slide hammer to separate the coupling flange from the shaft while it is attached to the transmission unless your next project is to replace the transmission.
Greg, Did you happen to notice the alignment of the two flanges when you unbolted the couplings? The cracks in the shaft might indicate big alignment issues possibly due to a bad engine mount.
I look forward to more posts.
This is not intended as a "you should have done that" post because your logic is was fine and many would have done the same. First off I would never be afraid of dropping the rudder. People have dug holes , raised the boat using boat stands, not always necessary to use a lift. Getting familiar with the steering gear while the boat is on the hard is much better than a stormy day. Making the decision to replace the shaft before work starts (bend shaft, too much wear around the stuffing box, adding a PSS shaft seal) can save you days of work but this sounds like my third grade teacher telling me to look up the spelling of a word that I don't know how to spell. Cutting the shaft will allow you to press the prop and the coupling flange out using a press at your local shop. The cutlass bearing can be cut and removed in minutes with the shaft removed. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/replacing_a_cutlass
Don't use a slide hammer to separate the coupling flange from the shaft while it is attached to the transmission unless your next project is to replace the transmission.
Greg, Did you happen to notice the alignment of the two flanges when you unbolted the couplings? The cracks in the shaft might indicate big alignment issues possibly due to a bad engine mount.
I look forward to more posts.