260 in Gulf and San Juan Islands

Kermit · May 17, 2015

I'd just about give my left battery wing nut to bring my H260 up there and find out together. Dang the distance!

Kings Gambit · May 17, 2015

langstraatp said:
I am moving to Victoria, B.C. I have sailed my H260 on inland lakes in Alberta.
Is the 260 a safe and appropriate boat for sailing the Gulf and San Juan Islands or should I be considering selling the boat and purchasing a keel boat for this purpose?
I am mostly concerned about safety and whether or not the H260 is a safe boat for this purpose.

If you're sailing among the Gulf Islands of Canada you're sailing in sheltered waters with only wind waves to deal with (i.e. no big Pacific swells, etc.). Whatever time you have to spend in the straits (Juan de Fuca & Strait of Georgia) to get around and back might prove more challenging, however, although the area around Victoria harbor is sheltered as well (from the W & NW). I'm a fan of larger boats for cruising those kinds of areas for comfort as well as for safety to whatever degree of difference exists in the latter between the H26 and say a Cat 32 or similar.

Ralph Johnstone · May 17, 2015

Just Keep an Eye on the Weather ............

langstraatp said:
Is the 260 a safe and appropriate boat for sailing the Gulf and San Juan Islands or should I be considering selling the boat and purchasing a keel boat for this purpose?

................. and you'll have no problems whatsoever. Weather updates are issued every four hours and they pretty much cover the entire Gulf area, foot by foot. The Islands are very well protected.

However, when they do issue a marine weather warning, DO NOT try to second guess them. Stay put with protection. The Gulf of Georgia can be nasty because of the long fetch and short period of the waves. Only idiots (like myself) looking for cheap thrills, go after this stuff and get caught up in it. Holy crap, what a ride

.

Prepare to have your mind blown by the scenery if you're here by summer.

Don't know if I can get excommunicated from SBO for posting too many pictures.

Don Crowther · May 17, 2015

Great pictures Ralph but I think you hit your limit for the year!

Ralph Johnstone · May 17, 2015

langstraatp said:
should I be considering selling the boat and purchasing a keel boat for this purpose?

The one BIG negative I should have mentioned is, as you extend further out and see the Pacific north coast, you may well be tempted to purchase a larger boat, both for the comfort of the longer trips as well as safety in some of the wilder weather up there.

Welcome to poverty :cry: :cry: :cry: !

kloudie1 · May 17, 2015

The really big change is going to be learning to handle the tidal currents there around the islands. Important to have a good reliable engine for that time (those times?) when you miscalculate and have to work against the currents..

Charles Erwin · May 17, 2015

You will not have problem one. I spend 8 - 10 weeks here a year. Fog in late July - August, so just don't get married to a rigid schedule.

Kloudie has a point - currents are to be accounted for though not fearsome - just hug the shore as necessary. I am 27 feet/18 hp Yanmar and no problem - just slow ground speed heading into it.

This is a one of the unique places on Earth so you really need to go. Sailing winds not so reliable - shows up mostly in the evening.

Adopt flexible schedule and if you have questions PM or E mail me anytime - now or all summer long.

And that goes for Kloudie too. If in the area then make sure to call so we can have a face to face.

Charles

Kings Gambit · May 17, 2015

Yeah, well your Nor'Sea 27 is not a Hunter 260; it's a ton and a half heavier with a full keel and inboard diesel, and with a layout that favors cruising, esp. the aft cabin version. No doubt a good, sturdy boat for cruising the waters of British Columbia. The H260 is a trailer sailor with an outboard. I don't think it'd prove all that wonderful out in the Strait of Georgia crossing between the San Juans and the Gulf Islands, for example, in common winds of 20+ kt. So, as I said above, inside the Gulf Islands venue fine; outside in the Straits, I dunno. I'd go bigger. My last charter there in 2013 we had to reach from Porlier Pass to Howe Sound in a SE @ 25 kt. We were in a Bavaria 42 and still got wet from spray. I would not have wanted to be out there in a H260, or similar. But that's me!! Nevertheless, see below.

"The H260 is a stable and safe Category "C" boat. Although the heaviest of the “Clorox Bottles” at 5,000 lbs displacement, it is not suitable for offshore sailing."

Category C – Inshore Voyages on coastal waters, large lakes, bays estuaries, or rivers, where wind force of up to force 6 on the Beaufort scale and significant wave heights of up to 2 meters may be experienced.

http://kobernus.com/hunter260/specs/specs.html

And more:

4.2.3.3 Wave Climate
This area is exposed to wind-generated waves developed in and propagating along and across the Strait of Georgia. Waves approaching the mainland may further increase in height due to the steepening effects from the opposing current from the north arm of the Fraser River. There are no long-term wave observation data available for this area. Short term data were collected off Sturgeon Bank over a period of 26 months between 1974 and 1976 (Thomson, 1981). Analysis of the data shows that 39% of significant wave heights and 60% of maximum possible wave heights are above 0.33 m, and 4% of significant wave heights and 13% of maximum wave heights are above 1 m. During the entire period of measurement, the significant wave height did not exceed 2.7 m and the maximum wave height was always less than 4.0 m.

Wave period is variable at this location, but it tends to trend longer with wave height. A significant wave height of 0.5 to 1.0 m typically has a wave period of 5 s. Waves with a significant wave height up to 2.5 m typically have a wave period of 7 to 8 s. The longest probable wave period measured is 9 s (Thomson, 1981).

http://transmountain.s3.amazonaws.com/application/V8C_TR_8C_10_TR_S02_MET_OCEAN_DATA.pdf

MaxinCalgary · May 17, 2015

Choose your day to cross the straights and you will be fine.
What you find on the west coast, is a lot of former sailers who switched to power because in the summer the winds are for the most part light. Fall is when the winds come , but by then it's too cold.
Sailers read novels of far away places and then buy full keeled undercanvesed boats that work wonders in the North Sea , but require 15-20 to move. BC has lots of Bristols for sale for that reason . My brother in law had a 24 ft Bristol that he only ever motor sailed.
For gunk holing around the Salt springs in light summer breezes , the H260 might be just what the doctor ordered. But I may be biased.

centerline · May 17, 2015

Charles Erwin said:
currents are to be accounted for though not fearsome

Charles

I fully agree with everything said about the san juan/gulf islands... except the above statment.

There are places in the san juan island that the currents can be worse than a storm at sea, due to the undertows, shifting currents and the speed of the water.... cattle pass comes to mind as one of these places, but there are others also..

Thats not to say that the worst currents cant be avoided by hugging the shoreline, but an unsuspecting/unknowing boater can get into a scary predicament in a short order if he is in the wrong spot at the right time when the tidal currents hit full stride.

Is it dangerous?...I dont know, but it seemed to be very much so at the time.. if you happen to fall overboard, even with a lifejacket on, I can almost guarantee you will see what the inside of a large whirlpool looks like.

Is it scary?... absolutely. When you motoring your way against a strong current thru a pass on a warm sunny day with no wind and no sails up and the boat suddenly heels over 20degrees and turns end for end in less than 15 seconds and you are being pushed sideways at about 6kts with the boat bobbing up and down sluggishly thru the whirlpools, I can say its a very lot of experience in a short span of time....

During these periods of strong currents, there can actually be curls develop like on a whitewater river... 6-8ft in height. If you try to motor thru them your motor can come clear of the water and you can for a moment or more lose control if you have no steerage...

Be mindful of the currents and have fun.

Kings Gambit · May 17, 2015

The current races and swirls that I've experienced have been worse in the San Juans than in the Gulf Islands. It might be tempting to cross the Strait to the San Juans as a first outing, but I believe it'd be better to cruise the Gulf Islands first, e.g. from Sidney to Naniamo along the inside, and then back. It's very pretty; there's enough to see and do to keep you busy for a couple of weeks, at least.

centerline · May 17, 2015

Kings Gambit said:
The current races and swirls that I've experienced have been worse in the San Juans than in the Gulf Islands. .

I believe this to be true also... I think its due to the volume of water coming directly up the straight of juan de fuca, then straining itself thru the san juan islands... the gulf islands are around the corner a bit and out of the direct influx of the massive volume of water flow...

Crazy Dave Condon · May 18, 2015

I personally and as a dealer sailed the Hunter 260 extensively on the east coast to include the Atlantic, Chesapeake Bay, Albemarle Sound, Pamlico Sound, coastal waters from MD to Florida, I will put my two cents in.

The boat is more flat bottom than the older boats and does not need to heel over more than 12-14 degrees thru sail control. If this is what your are doing, then the next question is a motor. Minimum is 8 but a 9.9 would be better. The transom is only rated up to 10 hp anyway.

One good point mentioned is tidal current and the higher hp is better which is a good point as you do not have tidal current in lakes.

Another good point is knowing the weather when you go sailing, keep up with the weather forecasts. Small boat warnings, I would suggest staying put. If you are caught in bad weather like I did once on a 260, surf the waves and never go head into the waves under power or a storm jib situation. Motor will help but may come out of the water from time to time.

Would I go off shore, no personally but I did have customers go tot he islands in their 260's but with experience and of course monitoring long range weather forecasts.

Kermit · May 18, 2015

Come on, Dave. Let's drive out and go sailing with him!

Kings Gambit · May 18, 2015

Crazy Dave Condon said:
Would I go off shore, no personally but I did have customers go tot he islands in their 260's but with experience and of course monitoring long range weather forecasts.

Were the boats structurally modified in anyway? I was reading recently about how Schock boats in Costa Mesa sent its new Harbor 29, a day-sailor/coastal cruiser, to Hawaii from San Francisco Bay on a demonstration run, but to increase safety added a spare main halyard, strengthened the fwd bulkhead with additional tabbing making it watertight, and added special tangs or blocks on the mast, probably to support the fractional headstay if tensioned with runners. It's therefore not an "off-the-shelf", sail-a-way model. What about those H260's?

Charles Erwin · May 18, 2015

OK Kings Gambit and centerline - how do reckon the kayak tours can possibly manage?

Kings Gambit · May 18, 2015

Charles Erwin said:
OK Kings Gambit and centerline - how do reckon the kayak tours can possibly manage?

I dunno; I don't know much about 'em or where they operate. I don't remember ever seeing any out in middle of the Strait w/me the few times I've been out there. I've never seen them crossing the San Pedro Channel or the East Santa Barbara Channel, although they are reported to do so occasionally. People also swim the English Channel and have even tried the cross the Atlantic that way. Does not make me want to do it!! BTW; I checked the fleets of a couple of charter companies in the San Juans and Vancouver areas. The smallest charter boat for overnight I saw was a Catalina 28, weighing in about the same as yours at just over 8,000 lbs; still a ton and a half over the H260. So, maybe those guys [or their insurance carriers] know something about this subject as well!!

Ralph Johnstone · May 18, 2015

Especially .......................

Charles Erwin said:
OK Kings Gambit and centerline - how do reckon the kayak tours can possibly manage?

...................... when it's as crazy as this

.

When it comes to narrow and often shallow passages like Gabriola, Porlier, Active and Dodd's Narrows, we ONLY go through at slack current- right to the minute. There isn't a reason in the book that would induce us to do otherwise. Alright, maybe with a one foot change in tide we might go a little sooner or later.

But other than that, watch the weather and read the bible (aka. Canadian Hydrographic Services Canadian Tide and Current Tables Volume 5) and you can't possibly go wrong ........... dagger board, fin keel, full keel, kayak, sampan, raft, rubber ducky, water wings, bathtub, or whatever you can find that floats.

260 in Gulf and San Juan Islands

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