2008 Beneteau in mast furling ?

[SycloneDriver]

Yesterday I took out an 08 B 31 for a test sail. Here are a few thing that I observed and a question about the in mast furling.
The boat owner knows very little about the boat and his health is failing, so he sent his brother in-law out with us.

1. The first thing that I noticed was the lack of rudder authority especially in reverse. I'll get used to this.
2. The Yanmar won't turn off with the key. Shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to repair.
3. The bilge blower is loud, too loud! I'll have to do something about this.
4. The jib is shot and the furler needs a little work. The owner is going to split a new sail with me.
5. The in mast furling was more work than hoisting a sail. The owner has had issues with this before.
6. The transom allows for easy retrieval of a lost hat, although I had trouble backing to it.
7. The 3 cylinder Yanmar is so much quieter and smoother than my 2 cylinder Volvo Penta.
8. The Cruisair AC unit is out of gas. R22 is hard to get now.
9. The interior looks like new. Other than a few dings in the flooring it absolutely looks like new.
10. No boat smell! So much better than my old boat, an 88 B First 285.
11. Some of the running rigging needs replaced.

Now the question. How much effort is normally required to deploy an in mast furled main? I have never used an in mast furling before. It seemed to take a lot of effort. This system does not look like a DYI repair if the trouble is inside the mast.

 

[dlochner]

2. The Yanmar won't turn off with the key. Shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to repair.

Which Yanmar engine? Most Yanmars don't use electricity to run. There should be a knob on the engine panel that when pulled will shut down the engine.

5. The in mast furling was more work than hoisting a sail. The owner has had issues with this before.

I am not an expert with in-mast furling, the little I know is the boom must be at a right angle to the mast to work, otherwise it may jam. There of course may be other issues.

4. The jib is shot and the furler needs a little work. The owner is going to split a new sail with me.

Just negotiate a lower price. If I was the seller I'd drive you to a lower cheap imported sail from an unknown sailmaker, you probably don't want this. Get a couple of quotes and offer a lower price. A new Genoa from a decent sail loft should run from $2K to $3K.

11. Some of the running rigging needs replaced.

Yep. If I was getting ready to sell a boat, running rigging would be the last thing I'd worry about. In some ways this is a blessing, you get to choose the running rigging you want and not feel at all bad about tossing the old stuff in the trash.

9. The interior looks like new. Other than a few dings in the flooring it absolutely looks like new.

Gravity and heavy items are not good for cabin soles.

3. The bilge blower is loud, too loud! I'll have to do something about this.

You have a diesel. Don't turn the blower on. There was a thread about this earlier on SBO.

6. The transom allows for easy retrieval of a lost hat, although I had trouble backing to it.

Quit throwing hats over board.

 

[SycloneDriver]

delochner,

2. I believe it's a 3YM20. The manual fuel cutoff is on the back of the injector pump, it's part of the stop solenoid. The engine is normally shutdown with the key.
9. I'm going to put some kind of welcome mat on the sole. I've already dropped an allen wrench while going below.
3. The blower is automatic when the key is switched to run.
6. Let's call it a MOB drill.

 

[SycloneDriver]

I forgot to ask earlier. With in mast furling, do you just release the furling line and use the outhaul to deploy the sail? The owner warned me not to pull all the main out of the mast, I stopped when I got most of the sail out. The sail was about a foot from the end of the boom and about a foot and a half from the top of the mast, looked small.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

The in mast furling was more work than hoisting a sail. The owner has had issues with this before.

When properly set up, nothing could be easier or quicker. Me thinks something is sticking but to be safe, find out what it is before making an offer on the boat. Could be big $$$$ if something is damaged. Look up the model of the furler and see if it's going in the right direction when furling in. This is a common problem. I've had no problems whatsoever in 20 years.

I forgot to ask earlier. With in mast furling, do you just release the furling line and use the outhaul to deploy the sail?

A little bit easier if you use both the outhaul and the furling line.

The owner warned me not to pull all the main out of the mast, I stopped when I got most of the sail out.

The sail is pulled fully out of the mast. Drawn slightly back in for reefing.

The bilge blower is loud, too loud! I'll have to do something about this.

The bilge blower is for cooling the engine compartment, not for clearing fumes before starting (gas engines only). Change the blower to a quieter make such as a 3" Detmar which is much better. You may have heard a Shurflow Yellow Tail Blower which sounds like an air raid siren on steroids. When newly installed, I only ran it for 10 minutes before changing to a Detmar.

 

[Ron20324]

2. The Yanmar won't turn off with the key. Shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to repair.

My 2006 B323 3ym20 has a rubber pushbutton (to stop the engine) Button is in the "B" type engine panel in the cockpit. You still have to turn the key to "stop"- Or is it "off"?

 

[BigEasy]

1. Engine shutdown
There is a black pusbutton on the engine instrument panel in the cockpit to
Stop the engine. Depress the button until the engine stops, then turn off
the key. The button on the rear of the injector pump is an emergency stop
only; You don’t have to use it routinely to shut down the engine, use the
button on the cockpit instrument panel.

2. Difficulty with furling mainsail
Evaluate the mainsail halyard tightness. If it’s too loose, it will result
in baggyness that will cause difficulty in furling & unfurling as well as
jamming. If the sail is stretched & blownout, you will need a new
sail or get it recut.
Learn how to furl & unfurl the sail properly. Tension on outhaul when
furling to get a tight wrap of the sail inside the mast.
Make sure the rig is tuned correctly, little to no bend in the mast.
Release Vang & mainsheet when operating furler.
Head to wind or minimal port tack when operating furler.
Service the in mast furler. Remove the furling unit from the mast
and send it to US Spars for rebuild or do it yourself. Clean & lubricate the
bearings and replace the furling line. The furling lines swell and rub
Inside the furler drum, resulting in excessive friction.

 

[SycloneDriver]

I thought I saw a push button on the engine panel but I didn't have my readers on. Even the owner was going below and using the E-stop.

I thought the main halyard needed more tension but the brother in-law didn't want me to adjust it. I know the main sail has been damaged from getting caught in the mast, I've see it in the marina with the sail hanging out and 3 guys fighting with it. The owner has had the sail repaired and I don't think he will split the cost of a new one with me, although he quickly offered to split the cost of a new jib with me. This is a good opportunity to change the sail cover color as well, it currently a very dirty white. I'm thinking gray to match the other canvas and gray won't show the dirt so quickly.

As long as I'm replacing the 105 jib, I might increase the size a little. Thought on jib size? Foam luff? Other ideas?

 

[seadaddler]

I have owned my 2007 H-36 since new and you need to learn how to and what not to do inmast and
learning for starters go into wind furling in and out until you get more learning and most important is
the sail needs furling into mast very tightly wrapped into mast and yes lub top and bottom gears and bearings.
Nick

 

[DayDreamer41]

In regards to in mast furling, if regular maintenance has not been performed (bearing and reefing winch lubrication) this could lead to difficulties with the system. If the system on a Beneteau is similar to, or provided by Selden there is a bearing at the top of the mast section to allow the foil to rotate smoothly, this bearing is not easy to get to, but does require lubrication, our 2007 Selden rig appears to have been neglected (by both myself and the previous owner). Combine that with too much tension on the foil and you will have major issues with the system.
We are currently waiting on pricing for replacement parts to resolve this issue (upper bearing replacement), of course this cannot be achieved while the mast is standing.
I will say though, when we first purchased our Sapphire in the fall of 2016 the system did work smoothly, it is always wise to keep tension on the continuous control line while working the outhaul line, this will keep tension on the foil so the sail doesn't balloon inside the mast and prevent an uncontrolled sail deployment.

 

[Davidasailor26]

As long as I'm replacing the 105 jib, I might increase the size a little. Thought on jib size? Foam luff? Other ideas?

You might be able to squeeze a few more inches out, but since it sheets inside the shrouds it will run into the spreaders if you go much larger.

 

[SycloneDriver]

Good point Dave.
I called my sail guy but he is out of office until tomorrow.

 

[capta]

I would consider myself an expert on IMF and I think it is the best invention since sliced bread! I call it infinite reefing.
OK, here's the skinny. IMF has a learning curve. Nobody gets it right from the get go. Those who can't learn this way hate IMF. Those who do love it. To say IMF will one day fail and you'll be in trouble is like saying one day your boat will go aground. Neither scenario can happen without somebody screwing up. It really is that easy.
There are a lot of factors that can make IMF difficult. First and foremost is an old baggy main sail. My guess is that if the jib needs replacement, the main does too. A baggy main is difficult to get in and out, but it can be done if one is attentive. NEVER try to force it in or out. If it gets difficult, go back (whichever, in or out) a little bit and try again. And again, until it comes easily. Like I said, a baggy sail will be a hassle but it can be done. Also, on some boats boom angle matters as said above.
Basically IMF systems, like jib furling systems, are maintenance free, but check with the manufacturer on that, just don't go lubing everything up thinking that is the problem. It probably isn't.
I have only heard of one time when a screwed up IMF was not operator error, and that was when the foil itself broke. In that case it wasn't maintenance or anything else anyone could have done, just like other major gear failures on a sailboat.
Have a rigger come in and check out the IMF on the boat. Chances are, as I said, you need to recut the main or replace it. If you go with replace, make sure the sailmaker makes you a much flatter sail than he would for a conventional main. Most sailmakers fail to account for the bend of the foil in the middle when the sail is out most or all of the way and the sail shape suffers because of this.
Good luck, and I hope you enjoy the new experience of sailing with infinite reefing.

 

[DayDreamer41]

@capta I have to respectfully disagree with the statement, "are maintenance free", even in the Selden manual they state the frequency in which the IMF bearings are to be lubricated. Second to this, I have spoken with more that one rigger on the issue that I was having with our IMF, and this issue has been attributed to the Upper foil bearing being complete worn out due to lack of lubrication, the mast mounted winch has (3) bearing which also require lubrication at least on an annual basis.
The upper bearing worn and dry actually was causing the mainsail to furl like is was a bottom up furler, which put big creases in the upper portion of the sail, it would go in no problem, coming out was an issue.
Perhaps the arrangement on your system doesn't have this upper bearing, or the upper bearing is sealed for life, this is not the case on the Selden system.

 

[capta]

@capta I have to respectfully disagree with the statement, "are maintenance free", even in the Selden manual they state the frequency in which the IMF bearings are to be lubricated. Second to this, I have spoken with more that one rigger on the issue that I was having with our IMF, and this issue has been attributed to the Upper foil bearing being complete worn out due to lack of lubrication, the mast mounted winch has (3) bearing which also require lubrication at least on an annual basis.
The upper bearing worn and dry actually was causing the mainsail to furl like is was a bottom up furler, which put big creases in the upper portion of the sail, it would go in no problem, coming out was an issue.
Perhaps the arrangement on your system doesn't have this upper bearing, or the upper bearing is sealed for life, this is not the case on the Selden system.

I stand corrected. I've not used the Seldon unit. Sorry to misinform.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Beneteau probably uses a US Spars mast on your 31. If so, US Spars says this for routine maintenance: “The boom traveler should be flushed with detergent and fresh water regularly.
The furling rope should be replaced every four years or as required. Clean and flush top and bottom of furling mechanism regularly and spray with WD 40 or Harken lube (the ball bearings in the furling mechanism and halyard swivel are all stainless steel so need minimum maintenance).”

I’ve never lubricated the bearings on our 2014 and we don’t have any problems yet. WD40 is a poor lubricant and wouldn’t be my choice. The fact that they recommend it makes me think either they don’t know better or it’s not that critical.

 

[joker460]

You may want to see these videos for in mast furling Beneteau.

Neil Pryde Sails Int. Furling Mainsail Part Four: OnTheWater

Walking through the steps of furling while underway.

www.youtube.com

 

[SycloneDriver]

I was told to always keep a little tension on the outhaul. Maybe that's wrong or maybe the sail is baggy. I'll give it a good looking over.

Still not my boat yet but I am making progress.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[DougM]

In my opinion, the best choice for in mast furling is to get rid of it!

 

[DayDreamer41]

In my opinion, the best choice for in mast furling is to get rid of it!

Ouch, sounds to me like there has been some tainted experience of the past going on here.