2000 Oceanis 411 Rudder Issue

Jan 31, 2021
3
Beneteau Oceanis 411 Glen Cove
Hi all,
Hoping that someone can help me out with a rudder issue.
We purchased the 411 6 months ago with a very stiff rudder. Figuring that we will haul it out at the end of the season we used the boat as is. The rudder got a bit worse but still usable.
In mean time I purchased the whole bearing kit for the rudder from Beneteau.
Hauled the boat out and dropped the rudder to find out the rudder shaft is carbon fiber and the kit doesn't fit, it was made for stainless steel shaft.
There is no obvious reasons for the rudder to be stiff. Actually it came right out without a problem.
Any info or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Renato

411 rudder.jpg
 

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Mar 20, 2016
594
Beneteau 351 WYC Whitby
I believe I read somewhere Beneteau farmed out some later 411 rudders to Tides marine. Your rudder and bearing would also come from them, not Beneteau . They made the bearings out of UHMW which I believe is cheapy cheap . Delrin is tensile strength 10,000 psi UNMW 3100 psi and delrin is 10x the cost. I machined my own bearing out of delrin 4 years ago now , zero play and no stiffness
 

RitSim

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Jan 29, 2018
406
Beneteau 411 Branford
I had the same issue on my 1999 B411. On my rudder, the upper bearing is some type of plastic. There was plenty of grit and dirt on the upper bearing. This caused "threads" of plastic to form from both upper bearing surfaces. I took a lot of measurements. In the end, I 220 grit lightly sanded the threads off of the bearing OD and used a water-wet extra fine cylinder hone to do the same on the upper bearing ID. My lower bearing was a different story. It looked like I had sufficient clearances but had to wait to Spring to reinstall. I did lightly sand the lower bearing OD just to clean it a little. I was able to test the upper bearing clearances by inverting the rudder and inserting it from above- worked well but was a little awkward.
Fast forward to Last Spring. When I tried to install the rudder from below the lower bearing would not go in. The rudder bearing OD had 1/4" surface cracks and tiny blisters at those cracks. I emailed Tides in the beginning and also after finding the cracks. Got good response from Skip Lookabaugh <skipl@tidesmarine.com>. His appraisal of my rudder was that someone had applied a resin (epoxy?) surface layer to the lower bearing. Made the decision to sand the bearing OD (since the resin layer was added by someone after initial manufacture) until I got a good fit. Been smooth sailing for this year. Two of the pics below (202011...)are just after removal and the (202105...) are the cracks and blisters referenced above.
 

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Jan 31, 2021
3
Beneteau Oceanis 411 Glen Cove
Thank you guys for great info.
The surfaces on my rudder look really nice. Very light scratches and no play.
I'll pass them with some very fine sandpaper and polish them and reinstall the rudder. Also, I'll contact Skip to verify this.
Should there be some lubricant applied?
 

RitSim

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Jan 29, 2018
406
Beneteau 411 Branford
If the rudder is stiff, then there are some clearance issues somewhere. As for lubricant. I thought about that but didn't want to introduce grease that would attract more grit/dirt. Graphite is a possibility but getting it to the correct locations would be a challenge. I would want to take some measurements (fore/aft, side/side) at the upper, mid, low side of the bearings ID and OD to see if there is any out or round affecting the operation.

The lower bearing is flooded. Most of my debris was grit in the upper bearing.
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
The rudder shaft/bearings may not be the stiffness issue.

Noteworthy is the Helm to rudder control method. Cables and pulleys?
Also many had steering brakes too.

Jim....
 
Nov 17, 2021
14
bennetae oceanis 400 morro bay ,ca
Great advise Jim !!! I keep my rudder amidship with the steering brake nice and snug when she's berthed . I loosen and adjust accordingly to the sailing conditions as needed . I like some steering resistance when sailing . I would check the steering brake . it is located forward of the wheel on the right side . It could even be tightened and frozen and non adjustable. Cheers
 
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