I am interested in buying a VERY VERY nice Cat 30 and wonder if it is a good choice for a cruiser. I am going from Puget sound to the Sea of Cortez. It has the Atomic 4 engine and the boat is 100% clean and well teken care of. The owner said to say the Catalina Smile has even been repaired (whatever that means) Thanks Fitz.
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Depends on your plans
First off, the Catalina smile is a "genetic" problem with Catalinas. The keel to hull joint cracks ever so slightly (and sometimes not so slightly) at the bow. Very common and extremely difficult to fix, so don't hold your breath. Not typically a structural problem. Now, for the meat of your question. There are a lot of people who would say that the C30 isn't a good cruising boat because it's not a "bluewater" boat. I would have to agree that the C30 is NOT a bluewater boat. Does that mean it can't take a coastal hop down the coast? Nope. It just means that you should be VERY careful in regards to weather, plan your trip carefully and watch out for potential problems. The C30 probably wouldn't be everyone's choice for a cruising boat but it might be yours. Then again, you may get "out there," get in a big swell and think that the comfort level isn't the greatest. I don't really think there is a "wrong" cruising boat but if you're expecting to go to the South Pacific with it, I'd rethink the decision. That's my opinion and I'm sure there are those who think differently - but I'm guessing they haven't taken a C30 to the South Pacific. For a trip down the coast to Baja, a C30 should be just fine (watch that weather!). I'm not an engine buff but I wouldn't be afraid of the A4, IF it was in good condition and I had a mechanic check it out thoroughly. Keep us posted! LaDonna
First off, the Catalina smile is a "genetic" problem with Catalinas. The keel to hull joint cracks ever so slightly (and sometimes not so slightly) at the bow. Very common and extremely difficult to fix, so don't hold your breath. Not typically a structural problem. Now, for the meat of your question. There are a lot of people who would say that the C30 isn't a good cruising boat because it's not a "bluewater" boat. I would have to agree that the C30 is NOT a bluewater boat. Does that mean it can't take a coastal hop down the coast? Nope. It just means that you should be VERY careful in regards to weather, plan your trip carefully and watch out for potential problems. The C30 probably wouldn't be everyone's choice for a cruising boat but it might be yours. Then again, you may get "out there," get in a big swell and think that the comfort level isn't the greatest. I don't really think there is a "wrong" cruising boat but if you're expecting to go to the South Pacific with it, I'd rethink the decision. That's my opinion and I'm sure there are those who think differently - but I'm guessing they haven't taken a C30 to the South Pacific. For a trip down the coast to Baja, a C30 should be just fine (watch that weather!). I'm not an engine buff but I wouldn't be afraid of the A4, IF it was in good condition and I had a mechanic check it out thoroughly. Keep us posted! LaDonna
Engine Use?
I used to own a 75 C30 with an A4, and it was a great boat and engine. Very simple and easy to repair. The downside is that the engine is now 24 years old. If it has fresh-water cooling and relatively low hours, it sounds perfect. If it has relatively high hours and raw-water cooling and has been in salt water, watch out! The block and other minor little items could be rusting/corroding away from the inside. A good person to check with is Dick Dickens. He writes the Tech section for Mainsheet magazine, and owns a late 70's C30 with an A4. He knows the engine very well. Good Luck!
I used to own a 75 C30 with an A4, and it was a great boat and engine. Very simple and easy to repair. The downside is that the engine is now 24 years old. If it has fresh-water cooling and relatively low hours, it sounds perfect. If it has relatively high hours and raw-water cooling and has been in salt water, watch out! The block and other minor little items could be rusting/corroding away from the inside. A good person to check with is Dick Dickens. He writes the Tech section for Mainsheet magazine, and owns a late 70's C30 with an A4. He knows the engine very well. Good Luck!
Atomic 4
I have a C-27 with an Atomic 4, and I absolutely love it. It is a fantastic little motor, but it must be properly taken care of. I would aggresively suggest a survey if you are really serious about the boat. A professional survey will run you approximately $12 per foot, and the haul out will cost you about half of that per foot. Trust me, it is money well spent - and if the boat is as good as the owner says, the owner will gladly agree. One question you can ask the owner about the engine (or better yet, just observe) is if he cranks the engine for extended periods of time. If you do that on an Atomic 4, seawater has a tendency to back up the exhaust pipe and into the manifold. In some cases, with lots of pitching, it can end up back in the engine. So be careful. And of course, if there is not a freshwater cooling system installed, then seawater has been running around in the cooling jacket of the engine, and that will cause some serious corrosion. But a qualified surveyor will point this, and about 1000 other things out. It is VERY educational. And I agree (as usual) with Ladonna that this might not be a great open water cruiser. I'm figuring you might just be interested in jumping around the San Juans, over to Victoria, stuff like that. In that case, I would feel comfortable in good/fair weather, with a good knowledge of nearby harbors. My Aunt lives there, and has done some serious blue water cruising, but in a 42 footer, which is a whole different animal. Post back to this site, and I will shoot you contact info if you want to know more about the engine. Best of Luck - Rob Rich
I have a C-27 with an Atomic 4, and I absolutely love it. It is a fantastic little motor, but it must be properly taken care of. I would aggresively suggest a survey if you are really serious about the boat. A professional survey will run you approximately $12 per foot, and the haul out will cost you about half of that per foot. Trust me, it is money well spent - and if the boat is as good as the owner says, the owner will gladly agree. One question you can ask the owner about the engine (or better yet, just observe) is if he cranks the engine for extended periods of time. If you do that on an Atomic 4, seawater has a tendency to back up the exhaust pipe and into the manifold. In some cases, with lots of pitching, it can end up back in the engine. So be careful. And of course, if there is not a freshwater cooling system installed, then seawater has been running around in the cooling jacket of the engine, and that will cause some serious corrosion. But a qualified surveyor will point this, and about 1000 other things out. It is VERY educational. And I agree (as usual) with Ladonna that this might not be a great open water cruiser. I'm figuring you might just be interested in jumping around the San Juans, over to Victoria, stuff like that. In that case, I would feel comfortable in good/fair weather, with a good knowledge of nearby harbors. My Aunt lives there, and has done some serious blue water cruising, but in a 42 footer, which is a whole different animal. Post back to this site, and I will shoot you contact info if you want to know more about the engine. Best of Luck - Rob Rich
Cruising & Atomic 4
If you go down, you either need to come back, or have your boat trucked. The Atomic 4 may be OK getting down, but coming back is motoring almost all the way. Then fuel consumption and where you put it all becomes an issue. In some ways, like lack of noise, vibration and smell, I prefer an Atomic 4 over a diesel, but for short coastal or inland cruising only. For Mexico, I'd want a diesel.
If you go down, you either need to come back, or have your boat trucked. The Atomic 4 may be OK getting down, but coming back is motoring almost all the way. Then fuel consumption and where you put it all becomes an issue. In some ways, like lack of noise, vibration and smell, I prefer an Atomic 4 over a diesel, but for short coastal or inland cruising only. For Mexico, I'd want a diesel.
Catalina Smile
The Catalina smile was a crack that appeared at the leading edge of the keel where the lead meets the fiberglass. It usually went back about a foot on each side. It did not really effect the structural integrity of the boat unless it was neglected for a very, very long time where salt water could seep into the fiberglass and start braking down the resins in the fiberglass. I've never heard of one ever getting to that point. The Catalina smile was quite common on older Catalinas.
The Catalina smile was a crack that appeared at the leading edge of the keel where the lead meets the fiberglass. It usually went back about a foot on each side. It did not really effect the structural integrity of the boat unless it was neglected for a very, very long time where salt water could seep into the fiberglass and start braking down the resins in the fiberglass. I've never heard of one ever getting to that point. The Catalina smile was quite common on older Catalinas.
Catalina smile - which years?
This "Catalina smile" you write about; does anyone know if it's common on certain year ranges of production? I'm looking at a 1988 Cat 34...
This "Catalina smile" you write about; does anyone know if it's common on certain year ranges of production? I'm looking at a 1988 Cat 34...
Nope
Hi Fitz: I have a 76 Catalina 27 that I'm not even too fond of cruising the Chesapeake. Most of my complaint comes from what I understand to be the age of the boat and design. (This is not to say that I wouldn't be perfectly happy with a newer Catalina.) For example, is the space between the staunchions a cabin top ( I know there is a technical name for this) wide enough to allow you good footing? Mine isn't. I cannot set my foot down straight. Can you raise the main from the cockpit? I'd really want that capability if I were going to sail offshore. (Specially since I can't get real good footing as noted above.) What is your anchor arrangement? Is it minimal? My 76 has had the mast replaced, windows rebedded, head rebuilt, and Atomic Four rebuilt in 97. All these repairs were necessary for a "clean boat." About the Atomic Four. They are not made anymore. Compared to the diesel, I believe they are labor intensive. You have to change plugs, points, watch the carburator. If your plugs get wet, be prepared to change them out on the water. A diesel doesn't this stuff to worry about which is why (IMHO) they are standard in the industry. Atomic Fours are not typically equipped with a filter to take out water but you should put one in. My marina neighbor has had his A-4 quit three times this year, while underway, due to condensation in the tank (not bad gas.) My Atomic Four had an extra valve installed because it is prone to flooding. If you want to do coastal sailing, get a newer boat with a diesel. I know that's not what you wanted to hear. Melody Miller
Hi Fitz: I have a 76 Catalina 27 that I'm not even too fond of cruising the Chesapeake. Most of my complaint comes from what I understand to be the age of the boat and design. (This is not to say that I wouldn't be perfectly happy with a newer Catalina.) For example, is the space between the staunchions a cabin top ( I know there is a technical name for this) wide enough to allow you good footing? Mine isn't. I cannot set my foot down straight. Can you raise the main from the cockpit? I'd really want that capability if I were going to sail offshore. (Specially since I can't get real good footing as noted above.) What is your anchor arrangement? Is it minimal? My 76 has had the mast replaced, windows rebedded, head rebuilt, and Atomic Four rebuilt in 97. All these repairs were necessary for a "clean boat." About the Atomic Four. They are not made anymore. Compared to the diesel, I believe they are labor intensive. You have to change plugs, points, watch the carburator. If your plugs get wet, be prepared to change them out on the water. A diesel doesn't this stuff to worry about which is why (IMHO) they are standard in the industry. Atomic Fours are not typically equipped with a filter to take out water but you should put one in. My marina neighbor has had his A-4 quit three times this year, while underway, due to condensation in the tank (not bad gas.) My Atomic Four had an extra valve installed because it is prone to flooding. If you want to do coastal sailing, get a newer boat with a diesel. I know that's not what you wanted to hear. Melody Miller
Should be quite fine
I have a 1982 catalina 30 with a farily newly rebuilt A4. It always starts instantly and runs reliably. All you really need to worry about is crap in the fuel tank and water in the gas. Install a fuel filter, flush the tank (off shore passages stir up sediment), and install a water sepearator. Those that slam A4 engines just don't know them. Yes a diesel will run forever if you can get it started. A4 engines are easier to repair and much cheaper for the parts and labor. The real issue is if a Catalina 30 is really a blue water boat... I think it is not really strong enough (luckily the older ones actually have thick hulls!),but folks have sailed them everywhere. You are planning a coastal trip so you can always duck into port when a storm is on the horizon so this boat would be fine for you. Richard
I have a 1982 catalina 30 with a farily newly rebuilt A4. It always starts instantly and runs reliably. All you really need to worry about is crap in the fuel tank and water in the gas. Install a fuel filter, flush the tank (off shore passages stir up sediment), and install a water sepearator. Those that slam A4 engines just don't know them. Yes a diesel will run forever if you can get it started. A4 engines are easier to repair and much cheaper for the parts and labor. The real issue is if a Catalina 30 is really a blue water boat... I think it is not really strong enough (luckily the older ones actually have thick hulls!),but folks have sailed them everywhere. You are planning a coastal trip so you can always duck into port when a storm is on the horizon so this boat would be fine for you. Richard
More on olders boats
Hi Fitz: Today, Larry, the ace mechanic at Cadle Creek found lot's of gunk in my carburator which is probably why my engine quit and a tow was necessary. Diesels do not have carbuerators. Also check the gas tank in your prospecitve boat. Has it been replaced with plastic? Is the boat wired for autohelm so that the cord between the power source and wheel is not traversing some portion of the cockpit? You don't want an errant foot or fanny unplugging that thing while you're in the middle of a tack. All these maladies are a function of the design/equipment of older boats. Melody
Hi Fitz: Today, Larry, the ace mechanic at Cadle Creek found lot's of gunk in my carburator which is probably why my engine quit and a tow was necessary. Diesels do not have carbuerators. Also check the gas tank in your prospecitve boat. Has it been replaced with plastic? Is the boat wired for autohelm so that the cord between the power source and wheel is not traversing some portion of the cockpit? You don't want an errant foot or fanny unplugging that thing while you're in the middle of a tack. All these maladies are a function of the design/equipment of older boats. Melody
More thoughts on cruising and smiles 
After 12 years I still love my '83 Cat 30 but I will be trading it in soon on what I consider to be a cruising boat (Hans Christian, Pacific Seacraft etc.). In addition to structural considerations, you might want to think about things like redundant fuel filters and tanks, a 100+ amp alternator or genset that can charge your batteries quickly , watermaker, rigging for a staysail and many other things a long term cruiser should be interested in. There is a 500 mile stretch to Baja where fuel an water are in short supply. I would like to have at least 70 gallons of fuel in two tanks and 100 gallons of water in case I have to motor into a storm. Most of these options are not found on Catalina's because it is not what they were designed for. Before I bought my boat, I dove under 10 or 11 Cat 30's to look at the "smile" between the keel and hull and check for blisters. For the most part, the smile seemed to be more prevalent in the Tall rigs. May have something to do with the bowsprit loads causing a bending of the hull ? I would be curious to hear from other owners. My neighbor glassed the hull to the keel after stripping off the gel coat. Looks like it did the trick but that is an expensive solution. Regards, Jeff
After 12 years I still love my '83 Cat 30 but I will be trading it in soon on what I consider to be a cruising boat (Hans Christian, Pacific Seacraft etc.). In addition to structural considerations, you might want to think about things like redundant fuel filters and tanks, a 100+ amp alternator or genset that can charge your batteries quickly , watermaker, rigging for a staysail and many other things a long term cruiser should be interested in. There is a 500 mile stretch to Baja where fuel an water are in short supply. I would like to have at least 70 gallons of fuel in two tanks and 100 gallons of water in case I have to motor into a storm. Most of these options are not found on Catalina's because it is not what they were designed for. Before I bought my boat, I dove under 10 or 11 Cat 30's to look at the "smile" between the keel and hull and check for blisters. For the most part, the smile seemed to be more prevalent in the Tall rigs. May have something to do with the bowsprit loads causing a bending of the hull ? I would be curious to hear from other owners. My neighbor glassed the hull to the keel after stripping off the gel coat. Looks like it did the trick but that is an expensive solution. Regards, Jeff
A-4 thoughts
You know, I have a '79 C-30 w/ an A-4. What I did was take a 1-day course from a guy named Don Moyer in Annapolis (www.moyermarine.com) and learn the engine inside out. It doesn't take much to figure one out, and now I feel like I know everything about the engine and it's upkeep. This guy Moyer is really a guru and I recommend his site/info/classes. He also sells all the right parts. The engine really is child's play once you learn it. I think A-4s are great. Once you have that knowledge level, you don't ever have to pay a "marine professional" to get off the couch and come bill you for his time looking at your engine and scratching his butt
You know, I have a '79 C-30 w/ an A-4. What I did was take a 1-day course from a guy named Don Moyer in Annapolis (www.moyermarine.com) and learn the engine inside out. It doesn't take much to figure one out, and now I feel like I know everything about the engine and it's upkeep. This guy Moyer is really a guru and I recommend his site/info/classes. He also sells all the right parts. The engine really is child's play once you learn it. I think A-4s are great. Once you have that knowledge level, you don't ever have to pay a "marine professional" to get off the couch and come bill you for his time looking at your engine and scratching his butt
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