I have been looking at a 1967 Ericson 26 for sale, and I am wondering if it sounds too good to be true because it is too good to be true. It is a 1967 model E26 and is currently in the water at a lake nearby and it is sitting on its waterline (meaning no obvious leaks, I assume). The price is $4200, and that includes a six-post trailer, an old 4-HP or new 7.5-HP outboard (whichever one the owner decides to sell with it, but the 7.5-hp is too big for the engine cover), a depth sounder, a 19-channel VHF, a 2-stage battery charger, new running rigging, and the standing rigging LOOKS good to my untrained eye. It has a 150% and 130% Genoa and a storm jib. The mainsail is from a Harrison 27, and is like new. There is a slight case of dock rash on the bow (a black mark, like he hit a tire) and the rubrail and non-skid colors are quite faded, but the owner says he is repainting it. It has a 20-gallon holding tank with deck access for pumping out, and is complete with a cooler that drains into the bilge and an alcohol stove. The owner says the only water that has ever been in the bilge was from the cooler. Is this price reasonable, or is it very low for a boat this old but this well equipped? And how good is the fiberglas on 40-year-old Ericson boats? Is this model balsa or foam cored? Should I expect problems with this boat? Thanks for any comments anyone would like to make.
1967 Ericson 26
- Thread starter Firefly15028
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Four Grand
At my level of financial wherewithal, I'd stand to lose the only four grand I have (or haven't got at the moment). Of course I'd still have the trailer, and the outboard, and the electronics, and a lot of other stuff that might be worth something on another boat, but I wouldn't have a boat and I wouldn't have my four grand. Actually, I agree with you. If I actually had the four grand right now and the boat stood up to a close inspection out of the water, I'd buy it in a minute and probably wouldn't even have written the post above. But I appreciate your comment that the price is in the ball park. I'm desperately looking for a way to come up with the cash. Thanks!
At my level of financial wherewithal, I'd stand to lose the only four grand I have (or haven't got at the moment). Of course I'd still have the trailer, and the outboard, and the electronics, and a lot of other stuff that might be worth something on another boat, but I wouldn't have a boat and I wouldn't have my four grand. Actually, I agree with you. If I actually had the four grand right now and the boat stood up to a close inspection out of the water, I'd buy it in a minute and probably wouldn't even have written the post above. But I appreciate your comment that the price is in the ball park. I'm desperately looking for a way to come up with the cash. Thanks!
I hear yuh.
You could get it suveyed by a professional. Actually, it's a must in most cases. Your insurance company might require it also but you're out the survey fee whether you buy the boat or not.
You could get it suveyed by a professional. Actually, it's a must in most cases. Your insurance company might require it also but you're out the survey fee whether you buy the boat or not.
Surveys costly, insurance nil
I checked on the cost of a survey; it is $14/ft plus $125 travel costs for the surveyor to go to the lake where the boat is slipped. That's $489, nearly 12% of the cost of the boat (actually it is more than 12% because the actual selling price is a bit cheaper than I indicated). And my insurance company will not insure the boat against damage or loss at all; they say it is too old. They will insure it for liability only, at $289/yr for $100,000 liability limit. If I was immediately ready to buy the boat I would pay the $489 and have it surveyed anyway if for no other reason than to be sure there wasn't something massively wrong that would cost more than the boat to fix, and to have a list of minor problems that I could go through and fix myself after I bought it. That is one of my concerns: When I talked to the owner, he seemed willing to have an "in the water" survey, but tried to talk me out of having it hauled out for a survey. That made me a little suspicious.
I checked on the cost of a survey; it is $14/ft plus $125 travel costs for the surveyor to go to the lake where the boat is slipped. That's $489, nearly 12% of the cost of the boat (actually it is more than 12% because the actual selling price is a bit cheaper than I indicated). And my insurance company will not insure the boat against damage or loss at all; they say it is too old. They will insure it for liability only, at $289/yr for $100,000 liability limit. If I was immediately ready to buy the boat I would pay the $489 and have it surveyed anyway if for no other reason than to be sure there wasn't something massively wrong that would cost more than the boat to fix, and to have a list of minor problems that I could go through and fix myself after I bought it. That is one of my concerns: When I talked to the owner, he seemed willing to have an "in the water" survey, but tried to talk me out of having it hauled out for a survey. That made me a little suspicious.
Buying, owning...
...maintaining, and sailing and "older" boat always involves some risks. I think that the key is trying to understand and minimize those risks. While I mostly always think a professional survey is a good choice to minimize risks, it may not be the best choice given the price range you are talking about. Rather, you may want to buy Don Casey's book "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" and do your own survey. You have to accept the fact that a 1967 boat is going to need some upgrades and/or repairs. Hopefully, you will be able to do many of these chores yourself and save yourself some high-cost professional labor. It will also help you learn more about your "new" boat. In looking at an older boat, what you should concentrate on those things that could lead to catastrophic failure and what may be required to avoid them. So you may want to focus on the integrity of the hull, deck, and rig. There are a lot of older boats out there that are great bargains if you are willing to do the basics to keep them up. There are also some boats out there that, due to neglect in their manufacture or upkeep, are not bargains at any price.
...maintaining, and sailing and "older" boat always involves some risks. I think that the key is trying to understand and minimize those risks. While I mostly always think a professional survey is a good choice to minimize risks, it may not be the best choice given the price range you are talking about. Rather, you may want to buy Don Casey's book "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" and do your own survey. You have to accept the fact that a 1967 boat is going to need some upgrades and/or repairs. Hopefully, you will be able to do many of these chores yourself and save yourself some high-cost professional labor. It will also help you learn more about your "new" boat. In looking at an older boat, what you should concentrate on those things that could lead to catastrophic failure and what may be required to avoid them. So you may want to focus on the integrity of the hull, deck, and rig. There are a lot of older boats out there that are great bargains if you are willing to do the basics to keep them up. There are also some boats out there that, due to neglect in their manufacture or upkeep, are not bargains at any price.
I don't see why he would be reluctant to
have the boat pulled out of the water. Does seem suspicious. Maybe it's been grounded.
have the boat pulled out of the water. Does seem suspicious. Maybe it's been grounded.
Did you get a good look at the bulkheads?
Especially where the chainplates are fastened?? This is always a problem area, and not just on older boats.
Especially where the chainplates are fastened?? This is always a problem area, and not just on older boats.
Don Casey's book
Thank you. I presume Don Casey's book is on Amazon.com; I will see if I can track it down. I think it might be a good book to have and read even if I do have a professional surveyor look at it; it will help me keep everyone honest and help me know what's going on. Given the price of the boat, it might help me save some money too if I decide to do it myself. I appreciate your comments.
Thank you. I presume Don Casey's book is on Amazon.com; I will see if I can track it down. I think it might be a good book to have and read even if I do have a professional surveyor look at it; it will help me keep everyone honest and help me know what's going on. Given the price of the boat, it might help me save some money too if I decide to do it myself. I appreciate your comments.
Bulkheads & chainplates
No, I haven 't even been aboard the boat as yet. The closest I've come to chainplates was that while standing on the dock, I grabbed the fitting for one of the stays at the deck level and tried to wiggle it; it seemed firm. I know that means nothing at this point. I remember reading in Good Old Boats the job someone had in replacing rusted chainplates; I should go back and find that article. Thanks for the information.
No, I haven 't even been aboard the boat as yet. The closest I've come to chainplates was that while standing on the dock, I grabbed the fitting for one of the stays at the deck level and tried to wiggle it; it seemed firm. I know that means nothing at this point. I remember reading in Good Old Boats the job someone had in replacing rusted chainplates; I should go back and find that article. Thanks for the information.
Firefly, most of the decisions that you must make
concerning this or any boat hinge on your skills and abilities. If the boat hasn't been smashed then it can be made into a new custom outfitted boat. The material cost is not great but the labor demands are very large. Ericson boats were well built reliable boats. 4000 dollars for the hull, the rigging and the sails is a bargain if it fits your needs and abilities. But if you will need to hire the labor it will cost you far more than you can imagine.
concerning this or any boat hinge on your skills and abilities. If the boat hasn't been smashed then it can be made into a new custom outfitted boat. The material cost is not great but the labor demands are very large. Ericson boats were well built reliable boats. 4000 dollars for the hull, the rigging and the sails is a bargain if it fits your needs and abilities. But if you will need to hire the labor it will cost you far more than you can imagine.
I can imagine quite a lot
And that's why I'm asking these silly questions. I'm fairly sure I can do a lot of the work myself, but if I can avoid fiberglass work I will greatly appreciate it. I just don't know anything about it, but when the time comes if I have to learn it then I can learn it. I'm one of those guys who has been reading and studying sailboats for the last twenty years, but I have no hands on experience. Now (or soon) I intend to get the experience; I'm just trying to make it as painless as possible -- if that's possible.
And that's why I'm asking these silly questions. I'm fairly sure I can do a lot of the work myself, but if I can avoid fiberglass work I will greatly appreciate it. I just don't know anything about it, but when the time comes if I have to learn it then I can learn it. I'm one of those guys who has been reading and studying sailboats for the last twenty years, but I have no hands on experience. Now (or soon) I intend to get the experience; I'm just trying to make it as painless as possible -- if that's possible.
There is a well used term"hand tight"
it means just that. You can't move it by hand. But in the realm of boats "hand tight" is still loose. Fiber glass repairs are different but not more difficult than any other repairs. I charge 75 dollars per hour for labor plus the cost of material. The more skills you learn the less money you have to earn. The work must be done to make the job right.
it means just that. You can't move it by hand. But in the realm of boats "hand tight" is still loose. Fiber glass repairs are different but not more difficult than any other repairs. I charge 75 dollars per hour for labor plus the cost of material. The more skills you learn the less money you have to earn. The work must be done to make the job right.
Good old boats
Firefly, I own a 1967 Tartan 27 which we got at a fire sale for $4K that came with no trailer (the boat weighs nearly 4 tons). I also have a partner in the boat to help diffray mooring/docking costs. I can tell you that in 1967 they (boat manufacturers)overbuilt their hulls as they did not know how little fiberglass they could get away with as they do today. They tended to overbuild the standing rigging as well. Both of these characteristics are good from the standpoint of safety but not necessarily for racing or speed. For my first "big" boat I was not concerned with racing or speed and was happy to get an old boat that was built like a Cadillac in its day. We do race our boat though and surprise many more modern cruisers with our 240 PHRF (tub) rating. I too was reluctant to jump right in on this venture but now I am quite happy that I did and that I have a partner. The Ericsson 26 has a trailer which will allow you to keep mooring fees down to a minimum - be sure to check out the condition of the trailer checking for rusty axle, lee springs and wheel hubs (indication that ball bearings may not be in such good shape). On the boat itself I would check all the decks for spongyness (does it give way even a little when you step on it). The chainplates and bulkheads have already been mentioned. Pay close attention to these. We had to rebuild the knee for our aft chainplate which pulled up. Working with fiberglass is not so bad, just a little messy which is why they make thinners like Acetone and Lacquer Thinner. Does the motor run? Be prepared to get your hands dirty maintaining it. Does your car have a towing hitch? This can cost $500 to install a new one. Can your car pull the weight of the boat the distances you will be pulling it? Have the previous owner (PO) show you how to step and unstep the mast. If it requires a crane to do it then your setup will not be so easily portable. As suggested you should probably get the boat surveyed by a professional for 2 reasons. The main reason is so you can get insurance - most insurers will not insure an old boat like this without a survey. The other reason is to find out if there are some larger lurking problems that you cant see. The surveyor may charge up to $350. I am attaching a link to a surveyor's website where there is a lot of information about buying older boats and things to check for. It is also good reading. I hope you can find a way to own this boat. Let us know how it works out. http://www.yachtsurvey.com/buyingaboat.htm
Firefly, I own a 1967 Tartan 27 which we got at a fire sale for $4K that came with no trailer (the boat weighs nearly 4 tons). I also have a partner in the boat to help diffray mooring/docking costs. I can tell you that in 1967 they (boat manufacturers)overbuilt their hulls as they did not know how little fiberglass they could get away with as they do today. They tended to overbuild the standing rigging as well. Both of these characteristics are good from the standpoint of safety but not necessarily for racing or speed. For my first "big" boat I was not concerned with racing or speed and was happy to get an old boat that was built like a Cadillac in its day. We do race our boat though and surprise many more modern cruisers with our 240 PHRF (tub) rating. I too was reluctant to jump right in on this venture but now I am quite happy that I did and that I have a partner. The Ericsson 26 has a trailer which will allow you to keep mooring fees down to a minimum - be sure to check out the condition of the trailer checking for rusty axle, lee springs and wheel hubs (indication that ball bearings may not be in such good shape). On the boat itself I would check all the decks for spongyness (does it give way even a little when you step on it). The chainplates and bulkheads have already been mentioned. Pay close attention to these. We had to rebuild the knee for our aft chainplate which pulled up. Working with fiberglass is not so bad, just a little messy which is why they make thinners like Acetone and Lacquer Thinner. Does the motor run? Be prepared to get your hands dirty maintaining it. Does your car have a towing hitch? This can cost $500 to install a new one. Can your car pull the weight of the boat the distances you will be pulling it? Have the previous owner (PO) show you how to step and unstep the mast. If it requires a crane to do it then your setup will not be so easily portable. As suggested you should probably get the boat surveyed by a professional for 2 reasons. The main reason is so you can get insurance - most insurers will not insure an old boat like this without a survey. The other reason is to find out if there are some larger lurking problems that you cant see. The surveyor may charge up to $350. I am attaching a link to a surveyor's website where there is a lot of information about buying older boats and things to check for. It is also good reading. I hope you can find a way to own this boat. Let us know how it works out. http://www.yachtsurvey.com/buyingaboat.htm
Ross & Caleb
Ross & Caleb; thanks for your comments. Ross, FWIW, I always thought "hand tight" meant the same thing as "hand loose" -- i.e., if it was hand tight, it could be loosened by hand. But I see your point; for $75/hr I can learn a lot about fiberglass repairs. Caleb, my goodness; if your Tartan 27 weighs 4 tons, the Ericson 26 I'm looking at must not be overbuilt at all. It weighs 5,250-lbs, which is only a little over two and a half tons. If it weighed 4 tons I wouldn't be able to tow it with my truck. My GMC Jimmy 350 V8 has a 3-ton hitch and only weighs 5500-lbs by itself. Even so, while I'm not too concerned with being able to tow it, I am wondering if the wheelbase of the truck might be a little short and contribute to oscillations. I may have to get a weight distribution hitch, with (what are those things called?) torsion bars? Anyway, you know what I'm talking about. Well, I'm happy with the idea of the hull and standing rigging being overbuilt; I'm not interested in racing and I am interested in strength and endurance. Well, maybe the odd regatta after I learn enough to sail like I halfway know what I'm doing, but racing for the sake of racing is not my gig. The Ericson 26 does have a trailer, but the boat has only been on it once, so saith the owner, and even then that trailer was on a flatbed being hauled somewhere. So the trailer has never been on the road. I'll check it carefully, though; the owner said he built it himself. I'm not sure it would help much with the mooring fees, though; between the launching fees and the storage fees on the hard at the lake I don't think I would be saving much. Towing it up and down that long hill to the lake wouldn't save me much in wear and tear on my truck, either, and there is no place to park it down here in the valley -- I'd still have to pay for storage. Aside from the fact that if I give up that slip, it is gone for my lifetime -- you know how that story goes. That's good about checking the decks for sponginess, I can do that easily. OH, and I managed to find Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" at a local bookstore (Thank you Warren Milberg!) and I'll be studying it pretty closely. I am informed the older 4-HP outboard runs, but I don't know how well. It might not run very well, since the owner bought a 7.5-HP to replace it, only to find it is too big for the motor cover. But motors I can deal with and get my hands dirty; I've been doing that since I was sixteen. Besides, I have a brother-in-law in California who's a marine mechanic and used to own a boatyard. Let's see, the towing hitch I discussed above ... YES! Stepping and unstepping the mast. That is a good thing to know, isn't it? If I get any closer to this boat, I'll ask him about that. Or any boat. As I mentioned earlier, the surveyor wants $489, including travel fees to the lake, and the insurer won't cover the boat for any more than liability. If push comes to shove, though, I will check around some dedicated boat insurers. And I will have it surveyed if I decide to buy it -- like my wife said; "If you're going to do it, do it right." Thanks for the link to the surveyor; I will study it. I want you all to know I really appreciate your helpful suggestions.
Ross & Caleb; thanks for your comments. Ross, FWIW, I always thought "hand tight" meant the same thing as "hand loose" -- i.e., if it was hand tight, it could be loosened by hand. But I see your point; for $75/hr I can learn a lot about fiberglass repairs. Caleb, my goodness; if your Tartan 27 weighs 4 tons, the Ericson 26 I'm looking at must not be overbuilt at all. It weighs 5,250-lbs, which is only a little over two and a half tons.
If it weighed 4 tons I wouldn't be able to tow it with my truck. My GMC Jimmy 350 V8 has a 3-ton hitch and only weighs 5500-lbs by itself. Even so, while I'm not too concerned with being able to tow it, I am wondering if the wheelbase of the truck might be a little short and contribute to oscillations. I may have to get a weight distribution hitch, with (what are those things called?) torsion bars? Anyway, you know what I'm talking about. Well, I'm happy with the idea of the hull and standing rigging being overbuilt; I'm not interested in racing and I am interested in strength and endurance. Well, maybe the odd regatta after I learn enough to sail like I halfway know what I'm doing, but racing for the sake of racing is not my gig. The Ericson 26 does have a trailer, but the boat has only been on it once, so saith the owner, and even then that trailer was on a flatbed being hauled somewhere. So the trailer has never been on the road. I'll check it carefully, though; the owner said he built it himself. I'm not sure it would help much with the mooring fees, though; between the launching fees and the storage fees on the hard at the lake I don't think I would be saving much. Towing it up and down that long hill to the lake wouldn't save me much in wear and tear on my truck, either, and there is no place to park it down here in the valley -- I'd still have to pay for storage. Aside from the fact that if I give up that slip, it is gone for my lifetime -- you know how that story goes. That's good about checking the decks for sponginess, I can do that easily. OH, and I managed to find Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" at a local bookstore (Thank you Warren Milberg!) and I'll be studying it pretty closely. I am informed the older 4-HP outboard runs, but I don't know how well. It might not run very well, since the owner bought a 7.5-HP to replace it, only to find it is too big for the motor cover. But motors I can deal with and get my hands dirty; I've been doing that since I was sixteen. Besides, I have a brother-in-law in California who's a marine mechanic and used to own a boatyard. Let's see, the towing hitch I discussed above ... YES! Stepping and unstepping the mast. That is a good thing to know, isn't it? If I get any closer to this boat, I'll ask him about that. Or any boat. As I mentioned earlier, the surveyor wants $489, including travel fees to the lake, and the insurer won't cover the boat for any more than liability. If push comes to shove, though, I will check around some dedicated boat insurers. And I will have it surveyed if I decide to buy it -- like my wife said; "If you're going to do it, do it right." Thanks for the link to the surveyor; I will study it. I want you all to know I really appreciate your helpful suggestions.
Firefly, I haven't found an insurer for my 68
Islander beyound liability. Hand tight is before you apply tools. Most of the boats in the size being discussed here are not trailer sailed, just trailer stored. Launched in spring and taken home in the fall.
Islander beyound liability. Hand tight is before you apply tools. Most of the boats in the size being discussed here are not trailer sailed, just trailer stored. Launched in spring and taken home in the fall.
Winter lasts about two days or so here
Hmmm. Well, maybe "good ol' boats" are not insurable. Okay, we'll put our insurance money into ground tackle and safety equipment. Roger on hand tight. As for fall-haulout-spring-splash, well, this is Arizona. The lake is at 2151-ft elevation and never freezes over, and it is rare that snow falls as low as 3,000-ft on the Superstitions. We were up at the lake December 7th and it was 53-degrees F with a 15-knot wind, and I found it chilly with just a long-sleeved denim shirt (I forgot my windbreaker). But at least one sailor was on the lake on his sailboat, and the lake was peaceful without the jetskis and skiboats. We would have loved to have been out there on our own boat. We have no use for a trailer other than to haul it out for inspection, or haul it up to Lake Powell, where our daughter lives, for a couple of weeks in the summer. In fact, we're going to have to figure out where to store the trailer to avoid paying storage fees on it. My mother-in-law would have a hissy fit if I tried to store the boat and trailer alongside her mobile home here, but I might be able to get away with storing the boat trailer. Thanks again for the information.
Hmmm. Well, maybe "good ol' boats" are not insurable. Okay, we'll put our insurance money into ground tackle and safety equipment. Roger on hand tight. As for fall-haulout-spring-splash, well, this is Arizona. The lake is at 2151-ft elevation and never freezes over, and it is rare that snow falls as low as 3,000-ft on the Superstitions. We were up at the lake December 7th and it was 53-degrees F with a 15-knot wind, and I found it chilly with just a long-sleeved denim shirt (I forgot my windbreaker). But at least one sailor was on the lake on his sailboat, and the lake was peaceful without the jetskis and skiboats. We would have loved to have been out there on our own boat. We have no use for a trailer other than to haul it out for inspection, or haul it up to Lake Powell, where our daughter lives, for a couple of weeks in the summer. In fact, we're going to have to figure out where to store the trailer to avoid paying storage fees on it. My mother-in-law would have a hissy fit if I tried to store the boat and trailer alongside her mobile home here, but I might be able to get away with storing the boat trailer. Thanks again for the information.
I forgot to mention a few things
I was trying to be encouraging in my first post. Now the gloves are off. B.O.A.T. = Bring Out Another Thousand or Picture yourself in a cold shower peeling out 1 hundred dollar bills and watch them disappear down the drain. The purchase price of your dream boat is only the admission fee to a sport that used to be exclusively for the well to do. Having said all that I suspect that the Ericsson 26 might just be the right boat for you. You seem to understand that there are recurring fees (launch, dock, moor) so you are one step closer to reality. In some places you can just get (read buy) a used mushroom anchor (say 200#) and chain and drop it yourself. Then you need to find a tender of some sort to get out to her. The drag here is that often you will have to motor back to the dock to pick up supplies and additional crew. Slips are the most convenient but cost the most. The other topic I wanted to touch on was something I think Ross touched upon. You will be happy with this boat only if it matches your expectations. I say this because if you just want to sail you can get a smaller (real trailer sailer) boat that you could tow. But if you want the commodore (wife or GF etc) to enjoy it too then the E26 sounds more like the best bet. You can sleep on it, cook, fish, sail, motor or leave it as chores on land never disappear just because you own a boat. The chores on a boat never seem to end. One other note of caution: is this a centerboard or swing keel boat? If so check that mechanism to make sure it works. I am also curious if the mast is deck stepped or keel stepped. Keel stepped could be considered a little more sturdy as the deck also helps to keep the mast upright. On this point the keel stepped mast foot should have some heavy electrical cable running to a plate on the outside of the hull (thru hull plate) for lightning dispersion. Anyway, good luck and keep us informed.
I was trying to be encouraging in my first post. Now the gloves are off. B.O.A.T. = Bring Out Another Thousand or Picture yourself in a cold shower peeling out 1 hundred dollar bills and watch them disappear down the drain. The purchase price of your dream boat is only the admission fee to a sport that used to be exclusively for the well to do. Having said all that I suspect that the Ericsson 26 might just be the right boat for you. You seem to understand that there are recurring fees (launch, dock, moor) so you are one step closer to reality. In some places you can just get (read buy) a used mushroom anchor (say 200#) and chain and drop it yourself. Then you need to find a tender of some sort to get out to her. The drag here is that often you will have to motor back to the dock to pick up supplies and additional crew. Slips are the most convenient but cost the most. The other topic I wanted to touch on was something I think Ross touched upon. You will be happy with this boat only if it matches your expectations. I say this because if you just want to sail you can get a smaller (real trailer sailer) boat that you could tow. But if you want the commodore (wife or GF etc) to enjoy it too then the E26 sounds more like the best bet. You can sleep on it, cook, fish, sail, motor or leave it as chores on land never disappear just because you own a boat. The chores on a boat never seem to end. One other note of caution: is this a centerboard or swing keel boat? If so check that mechanism to make sure it works. I am also curious if the mast is deck stepped or keel stepped. Keel stepped could be considered a little more sturdy as the deck also helps to keep the mast upright. On this point the keel stepped mast foot should have some heavy electrical cable running to a plate on the outside of the hull (thru hull plate) for lightning dispersion. Anyway, good luck and keep us informed.
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