Anchor Setting Comparison (Video)

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
vinyl coverings on chains get loosened in places and the corrosion is not easily observable until the failure occurs. plain galvanized goood quality chain will last many years even with constant use. the stainless steel anchors are only for showing off for the neighbors.
cqr anchors do quite nicely unless there is a fish net below the boat in the place in which you are trying to keep anchored in a storm. then nothing will work . NOTHING. there are as many feelings about anchors as there are sailors and anchors.....gimme a bruce and a cqr any day and i will be a happy camper......btw--look out in tortugas in the anchorage near the fort--there is a net on the sea floor preventing holding.....we found it ....but much if it is still there......
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,894
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
I agree, Zeehag.. I have two Breece ? Bruces? Bryce? (plural?).. how many to make a brace of Bruces?

I think Nice&Easy is in the Tortugas right now.. but not sure where exactly.
 
Mar 20, 2004
1,730
Hunter 356 and 216 Portland, ME
Re: Delta??

Hi Al,
we use a 35lb delta with 50 ft of chain as our primary anchor on Escape. It's worked great around the Maine coast for 7 years, with only one hard setting (2 tries) and one dragging incident in sand-really my fault, left the bimini up at night and a front came thru with gusts to 40. We were anchored in seal bay last year and got hit with a 180 degree wind shift that blasted to 35 and spun all the boats around in seconds-several boats broke loose and dragged but the delta just reset in the new direction
 
Feb 1, 2007
75
Auckland NZ
I found the following comparison study of a Manson Ray, Manson Supreme, and Rocna. It's for very heavy anchors, however it's very interesting info:

Practical%20Sailor%20Large%20Anchor%20Tests.pdf
That test was conducted by a cruising couple (whom we know well) in southern Chile, it had nothing to do with Practical Sailor before it was sent in to them. It was done in the middle of winter and the beach was frozen hard. They had no load cells, no way of really controlling the pulls, used the windlass on a yacht, etc. The writer is a known proponent of the Bruce type, and the Manson anchors supplied to him (including their Bruce type) were given to him at no cost. He had to pay for the Rocna. Most magazine reviews/tests on anchors are essentially bogus, the only (and I do mean only) test of recent years that approaches validity is the West Marine 2006 comparison which Al mentions below.

Some posters have warned about the use of ss anchors. Plastimo is a Navimo company as is Manson.
Navimo is the US face of parent Plastimo (France). Navimo is the US distributor for Manson, they have no other connection. Manson is a New Zealand company about 10 mins away from me right now :) who produce knock-offs of five different anchor styles including the Bruce.

Would someone please write the following marine equipment suppliers and/or manufacturers and notify them that they are putting sailors in harms way because of the stainless steel equipment the sell and/or manufacture, i.e. anchors, shackles, swivels, chain, etc.:

Defender Marine, Fisheries Supply, Lewmar, MariSafe, Manson, Plastimo, Rocna, West Marine, etc.
You appear to have missed my point re the cost of quality marine stainless. 316L is costly. By the time SS is of sufficient tensile strength for use in anchors (in our view), it is extremely costly. The problems such as they are come from the cheaper products which use poor quality steels and inadequate working/finishing. Stainless properly done is okay.

Take a look at this:
www.rocna.com/images/remote/rocna-55-stainless-gallery.pdf
If you can't see much difference, that's okay, the point is it's there. That was an NZ$8,000 anchor several years ago, when the exchange rate made it about US$6,000, and was about as cheap as we could do it without compromising its quality.

As to the companies that are happy to make such compromises, well, you can write to them if you wish. Unfortunately you have already voted the opposite, with your wallet, and this speaks more loudly than letters. The reality of the situation is that large anchors (get much over 70 kg) generally require classification and certification - the authorities care about commercial operations and the like - so there is already some regulation in place, but this does not extend to the small boater. You are mostly on your own - buyer beware etc. The small boat building industry is not sufficiently developed, like the automotive or aeronautical industries for example, for every little detail to be taken care of for you. (Of course, you can still go out and find brake pads made from sawdust, if you really want to save those pennies).

~

I notice from Rocna's latest (press_0612_wm_ym_testing.pdf) that both the Rocna and Mason held to 5,000# twice, while the Delta only did so once.

However, the Delta's other 3 graph bars were about twice the height (3,000# holding force, vs 1,500#) of both the Rocna's and Manson's 2 non-5,000# bars.

(The Spade held to 5,000# 3 times, but its 4th 500# bar gives me the willies. My Fortress looks wonderful, until I consider re-setting - a concern in tidal rivers that such testing ignores.)

It appears from this test (and from the earlier testing PDF on the Rocna web-site) that the Delta is superior (by quite a bit) to the other (non-rollbar) anchors, and represents an "almost there" evolution that has now been succeeded by the still-more-advanced Rocna/Manson design.

Having had good luck with my 35# Delta (and 300ft of 5/16 G4 chain) in much more limited experience than many of you, I was considering a 44# Delta for increased confidence (15k# 36ft boat), but attracted by the Rocna.

Based on the test results, I'm having a hard time reconciling the additional expense of a 33# Rocna. (Arguments about holding power from smaller sizes make me uncomfortable sacrificing pure brute weight.)

Why no comments on Deltas?
Al your reasoning is quite correct, although we would rate the Delta as behind the Spade also. We should know, we used a Delta from the UK to New Zealand :) We are intimately familiar with its problem characteristics, which formed the early incentive for the Rocna. The Delta will (sort of) hold its own in simple scenarios, but it starts to fail you in more varied conditions. The cost issue is really down to production, even with the galvanized models.
What I'll do is link to the Rocna Knowledge Base article on the Delta, take a look at the little essay by Peter at the bottom: www.rocna.com/kb/Delta_anchor
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
MaineSail...

Stu Jackson hit on something in his first post: are the anchors positioned at the start of your pull test in the same manner as they would end up landing on the bottom if lowered rather than being just thrown over the side?

If the CQR were lowered onto the sand on its two flukes with the shank flopped over, would it set in the same manner as the Rocna, or would it just fall over and slide when the rode was tensioned?

Practical Sailor did similar tests in past, but your video approach was outstanding in its presentation of what is taking place down below!
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,776
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Stu Jackson hit on something in his first post: are the anchors positioned at the start of your pull test in the same manner as they would end up landing on the bottom if lowered rather than being just thrown over the side?
Dan, that was certainly not the intent of that first post I made. If you return to it, and the following one, you may note upon reflection that the intent was an attempt to be humorous and, gee for me, just a tad sarcastic.;)

You will find that later posts by others discussed the angle of pull in much detail and Maine Sail discussed the flat pull all the way to 2:1 scope. I am convinced that the flat pull is what most of us experience on a regular basis unless the wind is howling when we anchor.

I think the summary of this topic is that CQRs do not set well in (hard) sand. CQRs also would, then, appear to be unable to reset in the same material. Rocnas do.

I also think, if you reflect on your post, that it may not matter at all how the anchor is lowered, because if one is also concerned about how an anchor RESETS, then it surely isn't being lowered then, is it?

And if the technique for lowering an anchor is so critical to the performance of the anchor, then I don't want that anchor: you will recall the post about having to use an anchor in an emergency --- I don't want to have to be sooo careful in that situation because my anchor won't set if I don't lower it just "a certain way." I've had to do that emergency thing personally, and the very last thing on my mind in that situation was "lowering" technique. Please, think about it.

I take the entire original video & experiment to be a perfect example of two possibilities: 1) either Skipper Bonzo Bozo-boy literally dropping his anchor and not bothering to set it, or; 2) an anchor resetting after a tide or wind shift in the middle of the night.

I like #2 and sleep better because of it on our Rocna 10.:):):)
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I tend to think that when a boat shifts from pointing north to pointing south it does so gradually and will drag the anchor in a small circle. I don't know how my anchor would behave if I set to an 8:1 scope and then motored forward until I was 180 degrees past my anchor. Would it reset or just slide along the bottom? I am not inclined to try as I don't like the prospect of 5/8 line fouling my prop.
 
Feb 1, 2007
75
Auckland NZ
If you managed to exactly reverse the rode (easier said than done) then any anchor will pull out, and you are reliant on it resetting.

In reality this almost never happens - what does happen is this:

The anchor is dragged deliberately so you can see that it remains embedded despite a sharp 90 degree veer.

Full size pics (and more of 'em) here: www.rocna.com/distributable/rocna_anchors_veer_test.pdf
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Thanks, Craig, That is about what I expected.
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
I agree, Zeehag.. I have two Breece ? Bruces? Bryce? (plural?).. how many to make a brace of Bruces?

I think Nice&Easy is in the Tortugas right now.. but not sure where exactly.
same place i am actually!! LOL... we are in tampa now--tortugas was awesome---i defy ANY anchor system to stand up to a fishing net under it---must have cutters to be able to not drag under those circumstances....net even had a burned wire to prove there was at one time a light on it ....doesnt work so well ont he bottom however .......brace of bruces is gooood----

ross--when i anchor in a place wherein i know the currents and winds will pull me into differing positions other than the usual 360 of tidal flows--as in san diego in stormy conditions, where the wind comes first from south then from north west, strongly, i set my first anchor from the nw then i set one from south so i move not in a full circle-just swing between the 2 anchors--if the 2 anchors are positioned far enough apart--it works and they donot foul each other and holding is good.....
 

Tom S

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Feb 4, 2004
172
Catalina 36mkII Stamford, CT
Franklin Asked "try testing the theory that the fortress will spin in the bottom instead of resetting with a wind shift. That's one thing I'd really like to know....is how it really handles a 90 degree and a 180 degree change in the pull. "

Practical Sailor did that in their Anchor testshttp://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/27_2/features/4481-1.html and posted the results in the January 15, 2001 magazine. Not really a "pull outr and reset test, but more of a change in direction test. In those tests which was 140 degree pull change the Fortress and the deepset did well (comments on Fortress -"Swivelled very flat , crown moved very little - move 6" before reset & Comments on the Danforth Deepset II - "did not break out flukes, stayed buried - move 1 foot before reset)
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,674
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
But the condition do not match what you'd see under most operating conditions, when the anchor line is almost never parallel to the sea floor...

This "theory" of what some folks think happens has been discussed at length in this thread. Ross is absolutely right that until the anchor bites the rode, with any amount of chain, is dragging flat on the bottom. Even at a 2:1 scope the bite angle of the fluke never changes and the fluke is still mostly laying flat on the bottom even with only 8 feet of chain. No one successfully sets a CQR at 2:1 on a regular basis. Once again I will link to the 2:1 and 4:1 scope ratio's..

Here's the CQR at 4:1. Shank still laying flat on ground as I described earlier..

Click Below for video:

CQR Setting In Hard Sand @ 4:1 Scope (LINK)

CQR Setting In Hard Sand @ 2:1 Scope (LINK)
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I think that no anchor is as good as the maker claims or as bad as the competition claims. There is no doubt in my mind that the Rocna and Manson supreme are great improvements but the CQR has a long track record as does the Bruce. I think however that you need to use a heavier anchor if you choose a CQR or Bruce versus the Rocna or Manson.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
I think that no anchor is as good as the maker claims or as bad as the competition claims. There is no doubt in my mind that the Rocna and Manson supreme are great improvements but the CQR has a long track record as does the Bruce. I think however that you need to use a heavier anchor if you choose a CQR or Bruce versus the Rocna or Manson.
Ross: I think you can say the same for toothpaste. "No tooth paste is as good as the maker claims or as bad as the competition claims."
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
many different anchors and as many different experiences with same---no one agrees except to disagree on anchors used by each of us...LOL..is sooo true.....and we each swear by our choices, having left our homes and lives to our anchors over time.....
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
Stu...

Thanks for the clarification of thought. When I have set anchors, it has always been in calm conditions and lowered by hand without a windlass. That's the position behind which I commented.

I carry a Bruce on the bow roller and a large Danforth in the anchor locker as a back-up. Here on the Chesapeake it's a usually muddy bottom (I think Ross pointed that out). We don't have kelp or other thick vegatation to contend with when setting an anchor.

On my last boat I did have one occasion to litterally throw out a Danforth on a 10:1 scope as a thunderstorm came crashing up on me. It set almost immediately and I backed down on it to be sure then hid in the cabin while my nerves got a test!

The usual problem I commonly see is that people (power & sail) tend to set with a short scope (less than 5:1) and get a surprise when a thunderstorm or windshift occurs.
 
Oct 13, 2009
6
51' Beneteau 510 Cedar Key, Florida
Well I'm sold on the Rocna, especialy when your looking at a 51' footer, that baby has my vote! Thanks Main Sail for the video's...nice job.
 
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Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
Once I saw that video it was very obvious that the tip must dig in with the cqr before it starts setting. The rocna has an edge that starts to cut and dig in right away. It looks like the spade was a step in the right direction with the rocna and manson evolving it further. The new designs look like they are worth the money especially if one anchors out a lot. That is a great demonstration.
 
Sep 26, 2008
566
- - Noank CT.
Very interesting video and for what it is worth I heard the music ! NO not just figuratively but literally there was background music ....
 
Oct 9, 2008
1,739
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
I'd like to see this test with a Danforth design. Would you mind buying a Danforth anchor, hooking it up, hauling it down to the beach, and dragging it through a few times?