Anchor Setting Comparison (Video)

[Maine Sail]

With all the threads on anchoring this week I thought it a good time to do another comparison. This time I took my 35 CQR and my 33 Rocna to a hard sand intertidal area to compare how they act while being set.

I apologize in advance for the lack of audio on the video. I tried to put some music behind it but YouTube scrubbed it for copyright issues after it took 3.5 hours to upload.... Live & learn.. Who knew you could not use Bela Fleck in the back ground of an anchor setting video. Oh well I'll have to try something else..

Oh and sorry for the misspelling in the last frame. I really do suck at video making..

Both anchors were set up exactly the same on the same exact hard sand only inches from one another so the densities could be as close to identical as one could hope for. There is no trickery here just actual performance under the same identical situations.

VIDEO LINK - ROCNA vs. CQR

 

[Scott B]

Nice video..... no wonder I sleep so well at night.

 

[Papa Bruce]

Great!

Great demonstration! I'll bet Rocna will hire you!

 

[Cpt. Jon]

Your previous set of videos is what convinced me to buy the Manson Supreme. I like those vidoes you do, no music though :cry:. The videos are very convincing and I will tell you what, I sleep a lot better on the MS than I ever did on a Danforth. Thanks for taking the time to do those things.

 

[Bob S]

Maine,

You sold me on the new generation anchors. Thanks for all the effort you put into educating us.

Bob S

 

[MoonSailer]

Angle of pull!!!!! I wonder what would happen if you were pulling upward as would tend to happen in real world anchoring from a boat. A CQR 's shank should be elevated so that the tip will better dig into the sand. It is a good demonstration that you should not have too much scope out when trying to set a CQR.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Why oh, why oh, did I ever leave Ohio?

Some CQR guys still don't get it, or never will.

Maine Sail, please, go back and elevate that CQR shank, I'm soooo sure it'll dig in then...

Actually, CQR guys, the flat chain is much more like what you'd see if you anchor properly and use scope.

People keep their CQRs 'cuz they like 'em. Why is beyond me after all these real life reports from Maine Sail.

If I had a CQR I'd ask Craig Smith (of Rocna) if he'd melt it down and get me one of his new ones!

 

[Stu Jackson]

And...

Angle of pull!!!!! I wonder what would happen if you were pulling upward as would tend to happen in real world anchoring from a boat. A CQR 's shank should be elevated so that the tip will better dig into the sand. It is a good demonstration that you should not have too much scope out when trying to set a CQR.

Has it dawned on you that the Rocna dug in without an "elevated" rode? Geez...

If your $50K to $220K or more boat isn't worth $400 of a new generation anchor, hasn't it occurred to you that you could lose your boat if you keep hanging off a CQR?

 

[Ross]

Re: And...

Please don't try to confuse me with the facts! I have already made up my mind. very impressive.

 

[Maine Sail]

Angle of pull!!!!! I wonder what would happen if you were pulling upward as would tend to happen in real world anchoring from a boat. A CQR 's shank should be elevated so that the tip will better dig into the sand. It is a good demonstration that you should not have too much scope out when trying to set a CQR.

I have duplicated this exact test with 7:1 scope. Even with 7:1 the weight of the chain keeps the shank flat on the sand, as it should. I know of no one, including myself, who has ever had better luck setting a CQR with short scope.

The video below was done at 7:1 scope. If you notice the chain position is nearly identical to the CQR / Rocna video. I also tested my CQR on four pulls that day at 7:1 and it never once dug in, just slid. Unfortunately my camcorder battery died after the Manson Supreme video was shot so I never was able to capture the CQR on video until today when I had a chance. The vehicle was at the top of a boat ramp, roughly 12 feet higher than the anchor, for the video below and it was a 7:1 scope. Today their was a local fisherman who decided to park in the ramp and go fishing for the day. So I used even longer scope...

You need to rememeber this is only a HARD bottom simulation. If you anchor in soft mud this would not be how a CQR would act. This was my fifth drag of about 60+feet on hard sand with my 35 pound CQR and it refused to punh in each time while the Manson Supreme, aluminum Spade and the Rocna all dug in almost imediately..

Trust me if my CQR's that I used for MANY years were great performers I have never had reason to buy another anchor. I don't spend my hard earned money to buy equal or less performance if I can avoid it...

Manson Setting Video @ 7:1

 

[Ross]

Mainesail, Do you think that a roll bar in a CQR would make any difference? I tried dragging my CQR across the lawn with the same results that you got on sand. However it does set reliably on soft bottoms which are most common here.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I thought about that, too, Ross

when I first saw the video, but I think, upon reflection, that it is the fluke design that gets it to dig in because the roll bar seemed to only move it over about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way.

In his earlier anchoring report, "published" here, on our C34 website (see: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.45.html ) and probably other places, Maine Sail wrote: "Yes the CQR sets better in soft bottoms than in sand but not all boaters are lucky enough to always drop the hook in a soft bottom."

That's part of his discussion with his friend who never backed down on his CQR. And that's a fair evaluation of anchor performance and sailing water bottoms!

 

[Maine Sail]

Mainesail, Do you think that a roll bar in a CQR would make any difference? I tried dragging my CQR across the lawn with the same results that you got on sand. However it does set reliably on soft bottoms which are most common here.

I don't think it would help much. After much observance or the CQR's behavior I am of the belief that the ears or the widest part of the flukes, where the welded bar is, is not wide enough to give the weighted, and rather thick in cross section, tip a good "angle of attack" on the bottom. All it needs is to penetrate but the low angle of attack seems to be what hepls it not force the tip in. If those ears were wider the angle of attack of the tip would be greater. I also owned a Delta and it set better in hard stuff. Similar design but wider ears..

It's hard to explain but this picture may help.

Those red lines are drawn from my physical observances of setting behavior. The Bruce actually has the steepest angle of attack but also the longest distance to travel to be upright and in proper set orientation. It sometimes has a hard time rolling fully upright leaving only half the anchor as holding surface area.

With the new shovel shaped anchors the ears are turned up where as the CQR's are shaped down. With the CQR's ears in the opposite direction of the shovel types it tends to lay with the shank on the sea bottom rather than off the sea bottom as the Rocna, Manson Supreme and Spade's do, which angles the tip to be pointed more directly into the mud or sand. The CQR also has a very heavy shank to help it land in its preferred setting orientation. Unfortunately the CQR's preferred setting orientation leaves the angle of attack too close to horizontal with the bottom and thus it does not like to penetrate a hard bottom. It's never been a big secret that CQR's have a tough time with hard bottoms I just happen to be one of the only ones, other than an admittedly biased manufacturer, to display this behavior on video.

Hope this makes sense as to my theory on why some anchors set better than others..

Some CQR guys still don't get it, or never will.

Careful I'm a CQR guy, I still own two, only I just don't really use them much any more. The CQR is NOT a bad anchor, I used one for years, but when compared to newer designs it just becomes second fiddle. I just got really sick of multiple attempts at getting a good set so began looking for other options..

 

[Ross]

Mainesail, I think that getting a plow point to dig into hard ground may be the best test of an anchor. Farm plows have massive beams and are supported in the best position to penetrate the ground but to just drop a plow on hard ground and expect it to dig in is asking alot. If I were sailing farther afield I would upgrade my ground tackle but anchors dropped on the Chesapeake bottom just sort of squish in I have never felt a thump.

 

[jibes138]

But don't you guys find the new anchors are really ugly sitting on the bow. Really big and bulky. I'd rather be draggin as long as I looked good in the process.
In all seriousness though, I think I have found the worlds worst anchor. It is a miniature navy anchor and it can barely hold a 17 foot center console when physically inserted at full depth on the beach. I can actually cause the anchor to drag just by pulling on the rode with my hands when it is fully imbedded, never buy one of these anchors.

 

[MoonSailer]

The bottom is more important than the anchor!!! My CQR set well most of the time. But it is now on the grage floor and a 33# Claw is on my bow roller with a large Danforth in the locker.

 

[Prime Time]

Interesting Post

The video is very interesting, but it is conflict with my experience with the CQR.

I guess my and my dad's experience with the CQR is the exception based on the comments on the board.


Rig: 35 lb CQR, about 10-15 feet of chain, 250 feet of 3 strand nylon line
Boat: 1972 Bristol 40, 18,000 lbs displacement
Technique: Drop anchor and let out 5:1 scope and snub anchor in reverse, dig in then let out typically 8-10:1 scope. Hold onto line while in reverse and feel it dig in.
Location: Just about every decent harbor from Long Island to Nova Scotia. As a kid, we used to cruise New England for a Month during the summers. My dad still cruises her for a month each summer. We would anchor out frequently.

We never dragged even in gale force winds sometimes up to 70 knots!.

The key maybe that we never drop and forgot. Always backed down and confirmed holding in full reverse. Maybe we never anchored in very hard sand.

I just got a new to me boat. A Bristol 43.3 It came with a 45lb CQR and chain along with a 45 lb bruce with chain/nylon line on a double roller. In addition, I have a Danforth 22H in a locker. These days, I tend to go to other yacht clubs and pick up a mooring. If I was doing an real expedition type cruising, I'd move up to much larger anchors.

 

[Franklin]

Setting the CQR may have something to do with the scope...as in do not let as much out until it catches. There is one place here where we have a hard bottom...it's is Offets Bayou and it's hard because they dug it out to build up the 18' seawall after the 1909 hurricane that wiped Galveston out. Because they dug the bottom and made it 20' deep instead of the normal 2-10', the bottom there is the hard gumbo (mix of mud and clay...part of the reason I felt I could anchor out in Ike and it would hold).

5 years ago on memorial day weekend a storm blew in. My neighbor was in Offets on his 32' freedom and his 35 lb CQR. His boat didn't drag at all in the 50 knot winds but most did and a lot of boats ended up on the rocks. I rode out that storm someplace else and it was rough. My danforth dug in so deep it took me two hours to get it out.

So, maybe how you set it makes a big difference as I can't see anything harder than that gumbo (you'll know what I'm talking about if you come south and try to dig a hole...I've broken a lot of tools trying to dig through that stuff).

Maybe it's like my fortress where the directions say to set it with a 3:1 scope and then let the rode out to 7:1. All I know is some really know how to use them.

Me, I'm still sticking with my bullwagga even after my mishap. I have learned the hardway what it's limitations are and I have the fortress for those situations.

 

[Ron20324]

Some CQR guys still don't get it, or never will.
People keep their CQRs 'cuz they like 'em. Why is beyond me after all these real life reports from Maine Sail.

Stu, real-life reports from one person, plus YOUR natural hatred of things you don't believe in, are hardly anough to overcome the thousands of users who have used CQRs for however many years they've been made. I, for one, don't mind if you speak up for the things you like, but it is in bad form to badmouth excessively those things you don't like, and that other people do.:naughty:

 

[Steve Dion]

and you say what? There is really NO BEST anchor and that is why most cruisers should have multiple anchors that work best in very different conditions.

http://www.practical-sailor.com/boatus/anchors/4rhod4598/99anchor2.html

This is just one test regarding holding power and not geared toward setting.