Would the Mac be a good first boat for a family?

[centerline]

I have heard other "real" sailors such as TKanzler above state the Macs don't sail as well and I take their word for it.

I think you are either taking things out of context, or some folks are just trying to run down your mac because their boat doesnt sail as well as yours does....

macs are one of the very easiest sailing boats there is, and they sail well for what what they were intended for, and in almost every case, you can push the envelope and sail outside the lines of what they were intended for and they still perform beautifully.....

yes, the macs are rigged simple and sparse and there are many other boats with seemingly more "status", but most all of them are more complex to sail than the mac.....

you can look at a new mac with its sparsely set up rigging and deck hardware, and then look at another new boat of any other brand next to it that has a full compliment of rigging, deck hardware and cabin accommodations......

to someone who likes gadgets, gizmos and fluff, the mac probably looks like something that is just taking up too much dock space..... but for dependability and ease of sailing, ill take the mac...

but every boat has its purpose, and every man has his budget....
some folks have more money than brains, and others have more brains than money....

so its hard to say that any given boat is not as good as another, until you get more information on what the intended purpose for it is.... but the macgregor is one of the very best boats for its intended purpose....

 

[Sumner]

Sorry in advance, this seems like an active forum so this has probably been asked but I cannot find it via search if so...............

.............So-- given all the above, or as much as you were willing to read, how would the Macgregor be as a first boat? Would we be in over our heads? Maybe sailing is not the way to go? Should we start with a smaller cuddy and graduate to the Mac (or whatever)?

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Just wondering if you ever came back or not and if so what conclusions you have drawn from the discussion?

Sum

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

 

[Bosman]

How much are you willing to spend? Perhaps, for a first boat, and a place where you will have two small kids, you would want something with higher initial stability? You should definitely see M26 in both motorsailer and sailboat in person and see how you feel on the boat, boarding, moving around etc.

 

[Azzarac]

Yeah Centerline, after re-reading my post I realize I probably could have worded it better. I meant no disrespect to our boats or our sailors. In fact I always get complements on our X anytime I am at the marina. I was simply trying to point out to Easye that those sailors who have sailed full keel boats will almost always say the Macs won't point as close to the wind as a keel boat will and I believe this is probably a true statement although I do not have the experience to verify it. It was not my intent to cause any confusion or hard feelings in any way.

 

[finding41]

The guys at the yacht club were kind of surprised at how well my 26D points. The ones I've taken out in it say they are impressed.
I know on race night that I can point better than almost all the boats out. There is a 21' trimaran that's got me beat hands down though.

 

[George P.]

Like you, I have no experience with sailing. So I did the very logical thing: I bought a 1990 26 S and towed it 500 miles home (from Amarillo to east Texas) with my 6 cylinder Mitsubishi Endeavor. No problems except for slightly lower gas mileage. The temp guage never waivered, but I did use the shiftronic transmission when starting up on steep hillls.

I'm currently cleaning and refinishing the boat. The publications "This Old Boat" by Casey and "Sailing Made Easy" by the ASA have been very helpful. In addition, Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" has been helpful.

Buying a boat without any prior experience or training, my wife thought that I had lost it and began to look through the Internet for a psychiatric consult. However, after assisting with some of the cleaning and realizing that a Mac is essentially a mobile vacation home, she's now fully on board.

Thanks also to Sum and Ruth for their journals and inspiration!

All the best.

--George P.

 

[centerline]

Yeah Centerline, after re-reading my post I realize I probably could have worded it better. I meant no disrespect to our boats or our sailors. In fact I always get complements on our X anytime I am at the marina. I was simply trying to point out to Easye that those sailors who have sailed full keel boats will almost always say the Macs won't point as close to the wind as a keel boat will and I believe this is probably a true statement although I do not have the experience to verify it. It was not my intent to cause any confusion or hard feelings in any way.

no worries.... no offense taken here

just trying to put things into perspective.... there are some less experienced and uninformed folks that dont know anymore than what they read... so for every 1 misleading statement or belief, there needs to be someone to try and set the record straight..... and even then a lot of people will go away believing the misinformation as fact.
on a personal level, there may be any number of reasons why an individual prefers one brand of boat over another, or dislikes one brand more than all the rest.... but when it comes to the macgregor, where does all the hate come from?.... anyone that owns one, or has owned one in the past has nothing but good things to say about them.
it puzzels me how the rumors can carry on....:bang:

 

[arknoah]

The X is the worst sailer I've ever had, and the only power boat I've ever had, but I'm using more than any other boat I've ever had, and my younger son taught himself to wakeboard behind it. Swiss Army Knife of boats.

I don't have a 26, I have a Mac 25 which some people have said is the last "pure sailing boat" Roger produced. Whether that's true or not, tkanzler's statement is true. I can't tell you the number of times I've gone to the marina and seen a boat that I just know hasn't been in a couple of months while I'm zipping away. Macs get used and enjoyed and that says a lot about their quality and the fun we have on them.

I would also encourage sailing lessons and just spend time on OPB - other people's boats - so you get an idea of what sailing's all about as well as cruising. I grew up with RVs with my parents and can agree that cruising on a boat is a lot like camping, so if you like that somewhat spartan way of enjoying yourself, the Mac or boats like it may be for you. But just so you know, the "Swiss Army Knife of Boats" slogan is now being used by Norseboats...


Good luck!

 

[sdstef]

My first boat was a venture 21. Sailed to Catlalina Island from Dana Point and Long Beach, sometimes shoving off at night. Got married and wanted more interior space, so bought a Mac 25. Sailed it same places, and kept it on my driveway for years. Now I have an Oday 25, older than my Mac 25 was, and I much prefer it over the mac. It is heavier and far more roomier, but it still stays on the driveway for winter. It is not a boat to set up for the day, and then de-mast it the same day like the Mac is. YOu can really be ready to launch a Mac 25 in 15 minutes, and tows with a small vehicle. I towed mine with a 1989 Isuzu PUP. 4 banger and it pulled and stopped it with no problem. I just never liked the head room and forget about using the porta pottie unless you are 48 inches tall or less. Just my two cents.

 

[Doc_holiday]

For all intents and purposes, my Mac is my first sailboat. That is to say I had a clipper marine for about 6 months before getting the Mac and I learned my basic sailing on it but I spent more time bailing water on the clipper than sailing. None the less it was a 26 footer too. I really, really enjoy the Mac 26S and think its a great first boat. It's very vesitile, it sails and points well, can be easily transported, requires fairly low maintenance and of course there a bunch of folks on this forum who can answer just about any question.

 

[easye]

Just wondering if you ever came back or not and if so what conclusions you have drawn from the discussion?

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Indeed... What incredible advice and feedback from this forum. I'll post a reply momentarily.

 

[easye]

Take a sailing course with your wife;

Find a local yacht club and sign on as crew. Usually you get free beer post racing, and drill instructor type training. You'll learn fast.

Weather doesn't care about your schedule. Don't pull a Kennedy and get over your head. I wouldn't night sail for at least two years in open water.

The boats are forgiving. Our family is the same way, and we love ours.

My favorite guys at our club all hash over problems in a group. That's very cheap repair assistance. I try and do my own repqirs.

Learn to use a gps and how waypoints, headings, current interplay. Garmin has some inexpensive ones. We carry two at all times.

Get good self inflating vests for all and practise man overboard drills. With some skippers, I'll throw my hat in the water and yell "man overboard!". Get ready for blank faces.

80% of sailors don't check the weather before going out (a heavy weather referenced book I have is that source).

If you are skipper, you don't get to drink underway. Acceptable DUI blood alcohol levels are LOWER than highway ones.

Buy two floating handheld radios, one for you and one for her. The stay on you at all times.

Go to West Marine and look at SPOT and EPIRB units, so someone knows were you are. While there, buy "Chapman's" to learn the rules on the water.

Just some basics - have fun!

Jeff

Great advice, the safety advice is especially appreciated. You mention about checking the weather- how severe/extreme would it need to be for a novice to stay aground?

 

[easye]

Yes the MacGregor is great for a family. My First sailboat is the Mac 26D. Got it last year. LOVE it!
Someone mentioned to me when I was looking for a sailboat to get the biggest one I could afford. Here is why. I was looking at a Sirus 17 or a Mac 21. Both fun day sailors. I would be looking for a bigger boat right now if I had got anything less that a Mac 26! It is perfect in size, safety, ease of sailing, and its light for towing. They are also reasonably affordable. Sleeps 6.
I also took the advice to join a club and ask members to help me as crew for the weekly race nite's from the same guy. (8 wins in 17 races! Top 3 5 times. Never last. First year sailing!)
I took the required safety classes for navigation and operation of any boat here in Canada. Right now I'm taking a weather course to be a bit more prepared for when we take the boat out on the Great Lakes this summer for weekends out.
You will find most sailors are very nice and helpful people. Maybe ask on this forum or others if someone can take you out on there Mac and check a few models out.
Best of luck.

Wow! I'm impressed you are able to be so competitive in your racing so quickly.

It's great to hear that others were in a similar situation and are happy with their decision.

 

[easye]

I was exactly in your place last year. I have a four year old. Was tired of fighting for camping spots, and didn't know how to sail. My wife has bearly been on a boat before. I bought a 26 s, because I wanted a boat that was more sailboat than motorboat. I bought the boat in Washington and dragged it back to Cranbrook BC. I went sailing with a neibours friend for a day and then took the boat out for the rest of the summer. Will I win any races?...Nope but we do have a good time. I like the little motor because it is easy to man handle and is pretty cheep to run. The boat is great for camping and just puttering around on the lakes. The ocean would be great too, but I want to have a bit more experience first. The boat is nice to pull, but I use a ford 250. I am sure you could pull it with something smaller but it is nice to have the bigger vehicle the boat gets pretty heavy with all the stuff you add to it. Head room is a bit cramped on the S, but at least you can sleep in it. We spend most of the time on deck anyway. Pretty simple boat not too much to go wrong. This forum is full of great support to help you with pretty much anything you want to do to the boat. It's a great floating camper and thats what we bought it for. For the price very happy although the x and m are usually more expensive, those big motors arent cheep.

Seems like you understand my needs exactly. You mention you're going to lakes, but that it would also be suitable for "the ocean." By that, I assume you mean Puget Sound/San Juans/Juan De Fuca? Or do you really mean the ocean? Not sure I'd have the guts for that, even if the boat could handle it.

But if you're referring to the Sound and such waterways, is it signfiicantly more challenging than lakes? Would a novice be better off taking a few years on lakes only before even putting into the Sound?

 

[patrickfarley]

My first boat was a venture 21. Sailed to Catlalina Island from Dana Point and Long Beach, sometimes shoving off at night. Got married and wanted more interior space, so bought a Mac 25. Sailed it same places, and kept it on my driveway for years. Now I have an Oday 25, older than my Mac 25 was, and I much prefer it over the mac. It is heavier and far more roomier, but it still stays on the driveway for winter. It is not a boat to set up for the day, and then de-mast it the same day like the Mac is. YOu can really be ready to launch a Mac 25 in 15 minutes, and tows with a small vehicle. I towed mine with a 1989 Isuzu PUP. 4 banger and it pulled and stopped it with no problem. I just never liked the head room and forget about using the porta pottie unless you are 48 inches tall or less. Just my two cents.

My fastest time setting up my Mac 25 single handed is 38 minutes. I only have one more modification to speed it up and even then I don't think I can be ready to go in 15 minutes. I need to start a new thread about set up procedures for the Mac 25 and see what other people do to speed the setup.
By the way I love the way my 25 gives me more space but I preferred the 22 for sailing and shallow draft.

 

[easye]

you have a lot of questions..... and to answer all of them at once, YES the macgregor will do everything you are looking for.... either the 25 or the 26.

the one question I have for you is, how is it that you have been living this long, nearly in the middle of a world class sailing paradise and are just now thinking of purchasing a sailboat?

Ha, I have to wonder that myself! That's what they used to ask me about Skiiing and mountain biking as well.

but you wont be pulling a water skier at that price range... bump it up another 10-12,000 and you will be getting in to the macs that you can ski with... but when the hull is designed as a planing hull so you can go fast and ski behind it, it begins to lose its ability to sail well.... and the fuel bill rises very sharply.
stick with a dedicated sail boat and you will be happier... so will your wallet, during the purchase and every time you fill the fuel tank with 3 gallons of gas....

Well, it's less about towing a skiier and more about motoring when the wind's aren't there, or we're in a hurry, or whatever. That aspect does appeal to me as a fallback, but of course so does the aspect that the wind is free and the fuel is not.

if you have an inclination to take lessons, do it before you purchase. because it will help you learn about how a boat should be set up so you can make a more informed decision in deciding what you want in a boat, or if you even want a sailboat....

Yeah I think I'd be inclined to take lessons first. Where does one go for this?

 

[easye]

Here's my considerations:

• Towable. This is a nice plus, I think. I have a 4Runner which is about as big as I can go in my garage without buying a new house. It means I can store it in an inland parking lot for less than moorage. (Dry storage is still an option though, eg Dagmars in Marysville if you know the area). Also allows us to tow it on dry land to the interesting places to explore on the water. The 26 S and D are water ballasted and very light for towing. So are the X and M, but they weigh a little more. My X is about 4000 lb with trailer (two axle, steel) loaded relatively lightly.
  
• Spacious. Our other considerations would be a towable cuddy, which probably won't be big enough to overnight, or a non-towable cruiser or sailboat which is more expensive and less mobile. The 26S and D are like other sailboats that size, but the X and M have giant interiors, including an enclosed head.
  
• Affordable. Certainly seems to be more 'camping-like' in its amenities than a lot of the glossy boats I see. This is a good thing to me- we don't need brass, shiny wood, and a loud stereo. We need a storage and a place to pee. We need a place we can fix and eat lunch when we're out. No teak and bronze in a Mac. Costs money, and that's not the target market. But the shiny gel coat interior is really easy to make/keep clean, and it's a bright interior.
  
• Safe. This might not be very different across boats, but I have to confess the Macgregor videos give me some level of confidence in this style of boat. Some folks hear of Macs flipping and think 'unsafe', but if you look into why it happened, it's usually a) grossly overloaded and/or b) ballast not loaded. Use them like they're supposed to be used, and they're perfectly safe.
  
• Efficient. I like the idea of sailing without fuel and noise when the winds allow. On a nice day, I imagine the cruise is the highlight of the day, so who cares if it takes longer than a noisy powered run would?

But here's my concerns:

• We've never sailed. What if we're no good at it? What if we don't like it? What if we find it too slow? Not really a good way around this one, except to point out that we are definitely willing to learn and try. The idea of sailing sounds great-- hard to say if the reality will match that idea for us. These are all small boats, and I don't think you can get into trouble with a little common sense. Take a boating course, learn weather in your area, pay attention, and with small kids, extra precautions. Get some practice without the little ones, but with the Admiral if you can - you don't want to be the only one who can handle the boat, especially when you have the kids on board.
  
• Towing. Towing with a V6 sounds too good to be true-- so it probably is...? Eyeballing it, the thing looks like it would be unwieldy on I-5 or I-90. I tow my X with a Highlander. I've had two 4Runners, towing boats of similar gross weight, and to be honest, there wasn't much difference. The Highlander and 4Runners weigh about the same, similar track and wheel base, and similar power, so similar towing feel. My Highlander has the factory tow package, with discreet receiver hitch and tranny cooler and wiring. The Admiral's Odyssey actually tows better, probably due to the longer wheelbase. Getting the tongue weight high enough is crucial, though. A much larger vehicle would, of course, drive better, but I'm OK with what I have.
  
• Jack of all trades, master of none. It's neat that you can tow a water skiier (presumably also a tube?) at low speeds-- and that you can power through headwinds, etc. But I'm concerned maybe it's not the best sailboat, and also not the best powerboat, so you're left with... what exactly? A compromise. No way around that. I sold a large(ish) keelboat to get the X because I wanted to expand my sailing area (I can't put the time together for a long trip), do some motoring on the Erie Canal (see above), and possibly next year, tow it to Florida for the winter. The X is the worst sailer I've ever had, and the only power boat I've ever had, but I'm using more than any other boat I've ever had, and my younger son taught himself to wakeboard behind it. Swiss Army Knife of boats.
  
• Speed. Having no experience on the water, I'm not sure if we'll be able to explore from Olympia to Anacortes effectively in this boat? The motorsailers (X and M) will zip along in front of a storm, or in no wind, so you can get around pretty quickly if you want to. But for exciting sailing, the S and D are really fast sailers for their size. Depends on what you want, which only you can decide.

Thanks for all the detailed replies. Great to hear that you can tow with your Hiighlander without issue. My 4Runner has an upgraded from factory hitch, but thta still only puts it at 5000 lb capacity. However if the boat, with motor and trailer is in the 4k range, that should be no problem. I estimate my travel trailer now is about 3500 and it's like towing a kite.

Based on what I'm reading in this thread, it sounds like the X or M would be best for us. I have no real issue with the slightly smaller cabin, but the motor would be a real nice feature for us. Just would give us more confidence that if we got in a jam we could get out of it.

 

[easye]

Easye, I could almost have written those same questions last year. We are avid outdoorsmen and I have camped in all the national parks except the Everglades (I think). We've always had an RV of some type or other and I have grown up around power boats but my sailing experience was limited to a few times out on my brother-in-law's Laser. My interest in the X or M series piqued when I found they were powersailers. My thoughts were if the kids got bored sailing we could fire up the engine and ski or tube. Ironically, we came to find out they enjoy sailing more while on the boat but we still take day trips to our local lake to get wet on the JetSki. We sailed the M for a day while we were in Florida and had a great time but I really liked all the room the X's cabin afforded, plus, as a used boat our X was generously equiped so we snatched it up shortly after we returned home from Florida. I have heard other "real" sailors such as TKanzler above state the Macs don't sail as well and I take their word for it. Since I, like you, had little or no previous sailing experience, I had nothing to compare it to. So for me and my crew, the Macs sail just fine and are a whole lot of fun (which I don't think anyone, experienced or not, will disagree with here). Go chat up the folks at your local yacht club. Someone there will be delighted to take you out for a sail. If you enjoy it, don't waste time in finding your new floating "RV". You will regret those months or years you procrastinate.
Good luck and fair winds!

It's amazing to me that you, and a few others, had such similar situations as recently as last year! The enthusiasm of this group definitely reinforces that we're on the right track with this boat.

A "floating RV" as you put it is about what we're looking for- but something where the journey is as fun as the destination (unlike, say, a houseboat). Also I really like the idea of exploring many areas, which is something you can do with the trailer that you can't on a lot of other boats with similar interior accommodations.

Thanks for your input.

 

[easye]

Easye, I could almost have written those same questions last year. We are avid outdoorsmen and I have camped in all the national parks except the Everglades (I think). We've always had an RV of some type or other and I have grown up around power boats but my sailing experience was limited to a few times out on my brother-in-law's Laser. My interest in the X or M series piqued when I found they were powersailers. My thoughts were if the kids got bored sailing we could fire up the engine and ski or tube. Ironically, we came to find out they enjoy sailing more while on the boat but we still take day trips to our local lake to get wet on the JetSki. We sailed the M for a day while we were in Florida and had a great time but I really liked all the room the X's cabin afforded, plus, as a used boat our X was generously equiped so we snatched it up shortly after we returned home from Florida. I have heard other "real" sailors such as TKanzler above state the Macs don't sail as well and I take their word for it. Since I, like you, had little or no previous sailing experience, I had nothing to compare it to. So for me and my crew, the Macs sail just fine and are a whole lot of fun (which I don't think anyone, experienced or not, will disagree with here). Go chat up the folks at your local yacht club. Someone there will be delighted to take you out for a sail. If you enjoy it, don't waste time in finding your new floating "RV". You will regret those months or years you procrastinate.
Good luck and fair winds!

Oh, and if you don't mind me asking, what age ranges are your kids? What are they doing when you're underway sailing? Certainly interesting to hear that they enjoy that part of the trip... hard to imagine my youngsters wouldn't be spending the time beneath deck... perhaps bored.

 

[easye]

The answer is YES. We, over the last 40+ years have owned three Ventures. A 21, 222 & Freedom our 1976 V25. It will sleep four comfortably, east to rig, easy to two, easy to sail. The suggestion about checking out the local sailing scene and becoming a "Boat Bum" is absolutely right on the mark. With few exceptions sailors are some of the nicest, finest folks you'll ever meet. They will give good advice, good companionship and good beer.

Easier said than done. You have to acknowledge that is a pretty intimidating order. Not even sure how one would do that, short of scoping out the docks on a weekend.