Would the Mac be a good first boat for a family?

[easye]

Sorry in advance, this seems like an active forum so this has probably been asked but I cannot find it via search if so.

I'm worse than your typical newbie: not only don't I own a Macgregor, and not only don't I have experience sailing, but this would be my first boat purchase of any kind (save inflatable).

We're a suburban family of 4 in the Pacific Northwest, and we've done a LOT of trailer camping. We're running out of places to camp and thought that a boat might be the ideal way to open up new horizons, so to speak.

Our kids are young: currently 5 and 2, but I would expect we probably won't get a boat in 2013 but rather in 2014 or 2015. So I'm just window shopping now.

But having never sailed, and never even skippered a power boat, would a Macgregor be a wise choice?

Here's my considerations:

• Towable. This is a nice plus, I think. I have a 4Runner which is about as big as I can go in my garage without buying a new house. It means I can store it in an inland parking lot for less than moorage. (Dry storage is still an option though, eg Dagmars in Marysville if you know the area). Also allows us to tow it on dry land to the interesting places to explore on the water.
  
• Spacious. Our other considerations would be a towable cuddy, which probably won't be big enough to overnight, or a non-towable cruiser or sailboat which is more expensive and less mobile.
  
• Affordable. Certainly seems to be more 'camping-like' in its amenities than a lot of the glossy boats I see. This is a good thing to me- we don't need brass, shiny wood, and a loud stereo. We need a storage and a place to pee. We need a place we can fix and eat lunch when we're out.
  
• Safe. This might not be very different across boats, but I have to confess the Macgregor videos give me some level of confidence in this style of boat.
  
• Efficient. I like the idea of sailing without fuel and noise when the winds allow. On a nice day, I imagine the cruise is the highlight of the day, so who cares if it takes longer than a noisy powered run would?

But here's my concerns:

• We've never sailed. What if we're no good at it? What if we don't like it? What if we find it too slow? Not really a good way around this one, except to point out that we are definitely willing to learn and try. The idea of sailing sounds great-- hard to say if the reality will match that idea for us.
  
• Towing. Towing with a V6 sounds too good to be true-- so it probably is...? Eyeballing it, the thing looks like it would be unwieldy on I-5 or I-90.
  
• Jack of all trades, master of none. It's neat that you can tow a water skiier (presumably also a tube?) at low speeds-- and that you can power through headwinds, etc. But I'm concerned maybe it's not the best sailboat, and also not the best powerboat, so you're left with... what exactly?
  
• Speed. Having no experience on the water, I'm not sure if we'll be able to explore from Olympia to Anacortes effectively in this boat?

Here's the experience we want from a boat- Macgregor or otherwise (in priority order):

• Weekends (off boat). I envision cruising to some marina that has a small hotel or cabins nearby, loading our gear into a wheelbarrow, staying the night and cruising back the next day.
  
• Weekends (on boat). Assuming the boat was big enough, I love the idea of staying in the boat at a marina, or anchored in a harbor. But I'm willing to sacrifice this for the off-boat experience if that's what it takes.
  
• Weekends (camping). I could see us packing tents and setting up camp on some shore. I saw this done on Blake Island on the Puget Sound and believe there's other places that offer this.
  
• Day trips. I imagine going to Poulsbo, Blake Island, or similar and back in a day. Leaving early, cruising to the destination, eating lunch and exploring a bit, and back home by 9.

So-- given all the above, or as much as you were willing to read, how would the Macgregor be as a first boat? Would we be in over our heads? Maybe sailing is not the way to go? Should we start with a smaller cuddy and graduate to the Mac (or whatever)?


Thanks in advance for your opinions.

 

[Kestle]

Take a sailing course with your wife;

Find a local yacht club and sign on as crew. Usually you get free beer post racing, and drill instructor type training. You'll learn fast.

Weather doesn't care about your schedule. Don't pull a Kennedy and get over your head. I wouldn't night sail for at least two years in open water.

The boats are forgiving. Our family is the same way, and we love ours.

My favorite guys at our club all hash over problems in a group. That's very cheap repair assistance. I try and do my own repqirs.

Learn to use a gps and how waypoints, headings, current interplay. Garmin has some inexpensive ones. We carry two at all times.

Get good self inflating vests for all and practise man overboard drills. With some skippers, I'll throw my hat in the water and yell "man overboard!". Get ready for blank faces.

80% of sailors don't check the weather before going out (a heavy weather referenced book I have is that source).

If you are skipper, you don't get to drink underway. Acceptable DUI blood alcohol levels are LOWER than highway ones.

Buy two floating handheld radios, one for you and one for her. The stay on you at all times.

Go to West Marine and look at SPOT and EPIRB units, so someone knows were you are. While there, buy "Chapman's" to learn the rules on the water.

Just some basics - have fun!

Jeff

 

[finding41]

Yes the MacGregor is great for a family. My First sailboat is the Mac 26D. Got it last year. LOVE it!
Someone mentioned to me when I was looking for a sailboat to get the biggest one I could afford. Here is why. I was looking at a Sirus 17 or a Mac 21. Both fun day sailors. I would be looking for a bigger boat right now if I had got anything less that a Mac 26! It is perfect in size, safety, ease of sailing, and its light for towing. They are also reasonably affordable. Sleeps 6.
I also took the advice to join a club and ask members to help me as crew for the weekly race nite's from the same guy. (8 wins in 17 races! Top 3 5 times. Never last. First year sailing!)
I took the required safety classes for navigation and operation of any boat here in Canada. Right now I'm taking a weather course to be a bit more prepared for when we take the boat out on the Great Lakes this summer for weekends out.
You will find most sailors are very nice and helpful people. Maybe ask on this forum or others if someone can take you out on there Mac and check a few models out.
Best of luck.

 

[katana750]

I was exactly in your place last year. I have a four year old. Was tired of fighting for camping spots, and didn't know how to sail. My wife has bearly been on a boat before. I bought a 26 s, because I wanted a boat that was more sailboat than motorboat. I bought the boat in Washington and dragged it back to Cranbrook BC. I went sailing with a neibours friend for a day and then took the boat out for the rest of the summer. Will I win any races?...Nope but we do have a good time. I like the little motor because it is easy to man handle and is pretty cheep to run. The boat is great for camping and just puttering around on the lakes. The ocean would be great too, but I want to have a bit more experience first. The boat is nice to pull, but I use a ford 250. I am sure you could pull it with something smaller but it is nice to have the bigger vehicle the boat gets pretty heavy with all the stuff you add to it. Head room is a bit cramped on the S, but at least you can sleep in it. We spend most of the time on deck anyway. Pretty simple boat not too much to go wrong. This forum is full of great support to help you with pretty much anything you want to do to the boat. It's a great floating camper and thats what we bought it for. For the price very happy although the x and m are usually more expensive, those big motors arent cheep.

 

[centerline]

you have a lot of questions..... and to answer all of them at once, YES the macgregor will do everything you are looking for.... either the 25 or the 26.

the one question I have for you is, how is it that you have been living this long, nearly in the middle of a world class sailing paradise and are just now thinking of purchasing a sailboat?

the macs are light for towing ability, they sail easily even in very light winds, they are roomy boats and will sleep a family of 4 very comfortable, they're affordable, (more so than you might think) you can get a decent 25 or 26 in the 3-5000 range..... if you shop hard enough you may be able to do better, as there are deals out there. but there is some junk available also, so be careful when purchasing....
but you wont be pulling a water skier at that price range... bump it up another 10-12,000 and you will be getting in to the macs that you can ski with... but when the hull is designed as a planing hull so you can go fast and ski behind it, it begins to lose its ability to sail well.... and the fuel bill rises very sharply.
stick with a dedicated sail boat and you will be happier... so will your wallet, during the purchase and every time you fill the fuel tank with 3 gallons of gas....

and even though you have never sailed before doesnt mean you cant learn.... if your a quick learner, you wont necessarily need lessons. but that doesn't mean you couldn't benefit from them. some folks want to be showed how to do it, and a lot of us want to learn how to do it on our own......
if you have an inclination to take lessons, do it before you purchase. because it will help you learn about how a boat should be set up so you can make a more informed decision in deciding what you want in a boat, or if you even want a sailboat....

 

[Knuttle]

Claustrophobia

My recommendation would be to rent or borrow a boat and try to spend a couple of weekends on the boat. When I got my boat many years ago I had big plans of going places on it. After spending some nights on the boat my wife she could not take the small quarters on the boat and we ended up doing a lot of day sailing and camping/sailing.

Once this question is answered your boat requirements could be entirely different. If someone is claustrophobic a smaller more easily trailer able boat may be more appropriate. If so a smaller boat like the Mac/Venture 21 may be more appropriate. The good thing about a smaller boat like the 21, it can be stored in most garages. If you pass the Claustrophobia test, then you can go on with your plans.

My daughters were on the boat before they were a year old. We created a baby bed on the boat, by putting side boards on one of the bunks.

My daughters are in their forties and will probably go sailing with us this summer.

 

[tkanzler]

Here's my considerations:

• Towable. This is a nice plus, I think. I have a 4Runner which is about as big as I can go in my garage without buying a new house. It means I can store it in an inland parking lot for less than moorage. (Dry storage is still an option though, eg Dagmars in Marysville if you know the area). Also allows us to tow it on dry land to the interesting places to explore on the water. The 26 S and D are water ballasted and very light for towing. So are the X and M, but they weigh a little more. My X is about 4000 lb with trailer (two axle, steel) loaded relatively lightly.
  
• Spacious. Our other considerations would be a towable cuddy, which probably won't be big enough to overnight, or a non-towable cruiser or sailboat which is more expensive and less mobile. The 26S and D are like other sailboats that size, but the X and M have giant interiors, including an enclosed head.
  
• Affordable. Certainly seems to be more 'camping-like' in its amenities than a lot of the glossy boats I see. This is a good thing to me- we don't need brass, shiny wood, and a loud stereo. We need a storage and a place to pee. We need a place we can fix and eat lunch when we're out. No teak and bronze in a Mac. Costs money, and that's not the target market. But the shiny gel coat interior is really easy to make/keep clean, and it's a bright interior.
  
• Safe. This might not be very different across boats, but I have to confess the Macgregor videos give me some level of confidence in this style of boat. Some folks hear of Macs flipping and think 'unsafe', but if you look into why it happened, it's usually a) grossly overloaded and/or b) ballast not loaded. Use them like they're supposed to be used, and they're perfectly safe.
  
• Efficient. I like the idea of sailing without fuel and noise when the winds allow. On a nice day, I imagine the cruise is the highlight of the day, so who cares if it takes longer than a noisy powered run would?

But here's my concerns:

• We've never sailed. What if we're no good at it? What if we don't like it? What if we find it too slow? Not really a good way around this one, except to point out that we are definitely willing to learn and try. The idea of sailing sounds great-- hard to say if the reality will match that idea for us. These are all small boats, and I don't think you can get into trouble with a little common sense. Take a boating course, learn weather in your area, pay attention, and with small kids, extra precautions. Get some practice without the little ones, but with the Admiral if you can - you don't want to be the only one who can handle the boat, especially when you have the kids on board.
  
• Towing. Towing with a V6 sounds too good to be true-- so it probably is...? Eyeballing it, the thing looks like it would be unwieldy on I-5 or I-90. I tow my X with a Highlander. I've had two 4Runners, towing boats of similar gross weight, and to be honest, there wasn't much difference. The Highlander and 4Runners weigh about the same, similar track and wheel base, and similar power, so similar towing feel. My Highlander has the factory tow package, with discreet receiver hitch and tranny cooler and wiring. The Admiral's Odyssey actually tows better, probably due to the longer wheelbase. Getting the tongue weight high enough is crucial, though. A much larger vehicle would, of course, drive better, but I'm OK with what I have.
  
• Jack of all trades, master of none. It's neat that you can tow a water skiier (presumably also a tube?) at low speeds-- and that you can power through headwinds, etc. But I'm concerned maybe it's not the best sailboat, and also not the best powerboat, so you're left with... what exactly? A compromise. No way around that. I sold a large(ish) keelboat to get the X because I wanted to expand my sailing area (I can't put the time together for a long trip), do some motoring on the Erie Canal (see above), and possibly next year, tow it to Florida for the winter. The X is the worst sailer I've ever had, and the only power boat I've ever had, but I'm using more than any other boat I've ever had, and my younger son taught himself to wakeboard behind it. Swiss Army Knife of boats.
  
• Speed. Having no experience on the water, I'm not sure if we'll be able to explore from Olympia to Anacortes effectively in this boat? The motorsailers (X and M) will zip along in front of a storm, or in no wind, so you can get around pretty quickly if you want to. But for exciting sailing, the S and D are really fast sailers for their size. Depends on what you want, which only you can decide.

 

[Azzarac]

Easye, I could almost have written those same questions last year. We are avid outdoorsmen and I have camped in all the national parks except the Everglades (I think). We've always had an RV of some type or other and I have grown up around power boats but my sailing experience was limited to a few times out on my brother-in-law's Laser. My interest in the X or M series piqued when I found they were powersailers. My thoughts were if the kids got bored sailing we could fire up the engine and ski or tube. Ironically, we came to find out they enjoy sailing more while on the boat but we still take day trips to our local lake to get wet on the JetSki. We sailed the M for a day while we were in Florida and had a great time but I really liked all the room the X's cabin afforded, plus, as a used boat our X was generously equiped so we snatched it up shortly after we returned home from Florida. I have heard other "real" sailors such as TKanzler above state the Macs don't sail as well and I take their word for it. Since I, like you, had little or no previous sailing experience, I had nothing to compare it to. So for me and my crew, the Macs sail just fine and are a whole lot of fun (which I don't think anyone, experienced or not, will disagree with here). Go chat up the folks at your local yacht club. Someone there will be delighted to take you out for a sail. If you enjoy it, don't waste time in finding your new floating "RV". You will regret those months or years you procrastinate.
Good luck and fair winds!

 

[Freedom77]

The answer is YES. We, over the last 40+ years have owned three Ventures. A 21, 222 & Freedom our 1976 V25. It will sleep four comfortably, east to rig, easy to two, easy to sail. The suggestion about checking out the local sailing scene and becoming a "Boat Bum" is absolutely right on the mark. With few exceptions sailors are some of the nicest, finest folks you'll ever meet. They will give good advice, good companionship and good beer. We have towed Freedom as far south as Ensenada Mexico and as far north as Canada. Do some homeworkk, don't buy the first boat you see and good luck.

 

[TortugasRoyal]

Yes, U can avoid slip fees. U got an outboard to power while learning to sail. Kids will love it. Run some deck line each side of the boat stern to bow. Get safety harnesses and tethers for the little kids and they can have safe run of the boat. Remember life jackets so U have little bobbers to fish out of the water. Also suggest a tiiller pilot so the boat can sail self while retrieving bobbers.

 

[tkanzler]

I have heard other "real" sailors such as TKanzler above state the Macs don't sail as well and I take their word for it.

Whoa. You give me way too much credit. All I can compare is the X against a small handful of trailer sailers and keel boats (dock queens). In that narrow context, the X is rather a pig, but then, I couldn't pull a wakeboard behind any of the others, nor could I tow a boat with standing room and an enclosed head with a Highlander, either, aside from my X. I'm happy with it for the time being. Maybe in a few years I'll trade in for a catamaran. Or another keel boat, once I land wherever I'll land when I'm tired of this frosty area.

 

[cscott]

easye,
Contact "Blue Water Yachts" below you in Seattle.

http://bwyachts.com/

They can address all your concerns and take you out for a deminstration.

Lots of luck, and yes, it is a great beginner family sail boat.

Chuck

 

[vetch]

Mac's always seam to get a a bad wrap but look at the facts of the dozens of companies that sprang up in the '70s mac I'd one of the only ones still around. You don't do that by building junk.

My first sailboat was a v22 and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another.

Based on your list of requirments and concerns a Mac 26 of any model would fit the bill.

 

[katana750]

Yes, U can avoid slip fees. U got an outboard to power while learning to sail. Kids will love it. Run some deck line each side of the boat stern to bow. Get safety harnesses and tethers for the little kids and they can have safe run of the boat. Remember life jackets so U have little bobbers to fish out of the water. Also suggest a tiiller pilot so the boat can sail self while retrieving bobbers.

Fun fact about the harness and tether for our 3 year old. My wife was quite adamant that we must have one. We are in a lake so I was pretty comfortable with a life jacket and a little lady over board practice. Any way I bought one to keep the piece. On the very first boat ride my wife tried to use it. All I heard was a giant wail and screaming, some scuffling and a very distressed little voice crying and saying no no no. I went down to take a look and all I could see is my miffed wife and a very tiny person in the farthest point of the rear birth trying to madly stuff the harness under the cushions. We have decided against the harness. Fortunately she loves her life jacket...Might decide differently if we head to Vancouver Island.

 

[Sumner]

.....We're a suburban family of 4 in the Pacific Northwest, and we've done a LOT of trailer camping. .........

.................We've never sailed. What if we're no good at it? What if we don't like it? What if we find it too slow? Not really a good way around this one, except to point out that we are definitely willing to learn and try. The idea of sailing sounds great-- hard to say if the reality will match that idea for us..

Considering the above unless money is no object I'd try a 26 S or D. The D would be fine if you are going to be in the sound, but if you think you might explore new and different lakes in the mountain west I'd go for the S. It has a swing keel and that can save some heartache in unknown waters if you run aground (saved us more than once).

The kids are still small enough that the S or D would be big enough and if you like it and later want to upgrade to a X or M you could probably get your money out of the S or D if you buy wisely now. X's are getting less expensive though. If you think you would like the power option look for an X.

Ruth and I have been extremely happy with our S and use it for longer trips. If you like camping you should like this even better. On the water about any anchorage can be a 'remote' campsite. We are more explorers/camper ourselves than sailors.

Good luck,

Sum

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[vetch]

No pics of the interior but thus would have potential

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/boa/3573758621.html

 

[MrBill_FLL]

The X or M would be a great 1st boat, for a family that wishes to camp on it. the larger engine adds a safety factor, and the wheel is easier to figure out. IMHO.

That said, you need some lessons, and experience to stay safe on the water.

 

[Wavelady]

Thought I'd add my 2 cents. My husband has never been on boats, I have some sailing experience. We live on Lopez Island and watch the boats go by every day... I want to sail. In our research, we found the MacGregor to be the absolute best choice for us - dollarwise, convenience - all the things you list. We have just purchased our boat through BlueWater Yachts in Seattle. Talk with Cheryl and Todd there. They have LOTS of experience sailing with kids on a MacGregor and are the top MacGregor dealers in the world - they know their stuff and are super people. We have small grandchildren who will learn to sail on our boat - it is perfect for a young family, too. You can sail day one - but if you get industrious, you can outfit your boat to go for weeks in the PNW waters... that's what we will be doing in the next few years - then it's trailering it to Florida, making stops along the way to enjoy various waterways - and then launching for a sail to the Bahamas! You can do all this with a Mac...
Just spent 3 days at the Seattle Boat Show - can hardly believe the big bucks people spend for huge boats that cost even more money to use and maintain - and except for big ocean crossings, we can do the very same boating for 1/100th the cost in some cases... sure we won't have a washer/dryer on board - but we will have water and we will have the wind! And we will have a safe, fun, wonderful way to getaway and enjoy our beautiful backyard.

 

[finding41]

I thought I'd check in and ask if you sold the trailer yet and got a MacGregor sailboat.
I was talking to a guy in Aliston Ont. a couple years ago about his Mac 25. He told me that on long trips with the boat on the trailer he and his family would sleep in the boat. kind of makes sense. Have to say I haven't seen any trailer sailors used for accommodation at any park I've stayed at.
One thing. Its allot quieter sleeping in a sailboat at anchor than in any park I've ever stayed at. Allot easier to pick up and go if yahoos anchor near too.

 

[Sumner]

I thought I'd check in and ask if you sold the trailer yet and got a MacGregor sailboat.
I was talking to a guy in Aliston Ont. a couple years ago about his Mac 25. He told me that on long trips with the boat on the trailer he and his family would sleep in the boat. kind of makes sense. Have to say I haven't seen any trailer sailors used for accommodation at any park I've stayed at.
One thing. Its allot quieter sleeping in a sailboat at anchor than in any park I've ever stayed at. Allot easier to pick up and go if yahoos anchor near too.

We've slept in the Mac on the road, but don't assume that all parks and such will allow it. It took about 3 phone calls ahead of time to a state park in Florida before they finally said that they would allow it. When we finally got down there we would be at the park on Friday and calling ahead they were booked. They gave us the number of a nearby private RV park and the manager said it was ok to come in. Once in we parked the boat over in an area where other visitors had left their boats. We were allowed to stay in it there, but had to put the Suburban over in a regular camp space about a block away. Then after we were there for a couple days and needed to extend for a couple more they said that would be fine but no more and don't come back. I found out that the manager's boss didn't know if his insurance would cover them with us staying in a boat vs. a more 'normal' RV.

So some places just don't know how to handle the boat thing so maybe call ahead if you plan on staying in park or RV park,

Sum[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

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