Wheel Conversion

Jackdaw · Dec 8, 2012

Wow. I think the mechanics would be crazy complex. But here's the deal about wheels. They only work well when they are designed to be stood behind. Sure sometime you are sitting on the windward rail, but if you can't design it so you can stand behind it, I'd vote against trying.

Plus the traditional arguments, you loose the great tiller feel, and the complexity. And you would still need an emergency tiller on board at all times as a backup.

redhead78 · Dec 8, 2012

buy a bigger boat.... it come with a wheel...Red

Merlin Clark · Dec 8, 2012

I'd look at an improved rudder (leading edge protruding forward reduces helm) and experiment with shorter (temporary) tillers. Moving the center of lateral resistance aft by putting an angle on the swing keel will also reduce helm.
With less helm you won't need as long a tiller.
An old aquaintance built apulley and cable rig with an aft facing wheel on his wooden, gaff rigged sailing dory and it worked fine. Sailed with him a few times and didn't experience any problems with steering the boat.

UPSGUY · Dec 8, 2012

If you search "helm station" on this forum you'll see a helm station conversion on a cat 22

Stu Jackson · Dec 8, 2012

Edson makes a system, but I don't know if it is for the C22 or just C25s or larger. www.edsonmarine.com.

Older yachts had lots of reverse facing wheels.

One idea is to simply get a shorter tiller, and swap it out easily with the two through bolts on the tangs to the rudder head.

A tiller pilot is a much easier install than a wheel autopilot.

Chris Patterson · Dec 8, 2012

It can be done. As you've already seen, and probably will hear before this post goes away, is it will create a lot of dissension. There are those that think a battle ship should be tiller steered, and those that despise them. Arguing between the two is like trying to convince another that they should like some particular weather. While there is no doubt that the tiller is the least complex, and therefore more reliable of a steering system in the long run, if you don't like them; you don't like them. PERSONALLY, I would rather eat a snake as sit at a tiller. I just don't like them. And anybody trying to convince me why I SHOULD like them is insane.
So, the question was, can a C22 be converted to wheel steering? Yes it can. And without a lot of trouble, albeit not too easily/cheaply to make it "reliable". Edson makes a retrofit kit to do just that, with a single push-pull cable. While the weight of a pedestal has always been a point of contention with a 22 foot boat, offset it with an equal amount of weight forward. Newton was correct.
However, I contend that your idea may work. But the complexity may be a bear. Why "reinvent the wheel"? (No, it REALLY wasn't a pun, but so be it). Your u-joint angles will have to be very correct in their angles, (two 45 degrees), and be properly supported. And the double sheave design as well. But it can be done. Why not. If it is desirous to you, go for it. Break free from the chains of bondage that is the tiller. But even if you don't go Edson, look into a push-pull cable system first. A wheel with a bellcrank would be easier to engineer in the long run..

Siamese · Dec 8, 2012

A wheel in a Catalina 22 would make about as much sense as a tiller in a mini-van. Fuggetaboutit.

sinnettc · Dec 8, 2012

Dad put a wheel in on his Bristol 24. That was a full keel boat with a rudder built into the keel. It was nice but it cramped the cockpit. It also takes some getting used to. I nearly dumped him overboard when I reacted like I would to a tiller and yanked the wheel the wrong way in a gust.

Personally I like the feel of a tiller in my hand.

Stu Jackson · Dec 8, 2012

Chris is right!

Anchors,

Religion, politics

Wheel or tiller...

onecoolair · Dec 8, 2012

Stu Jackson said:
Chris is right!

Anchors,

Religion, politics

Wheel or tiller...

Do not forget the.....K.I.S.S. Principle.

Joe · Dec 8, 2012

A wheel would look stupid on a boat that small.

You might investigate the possibility of a "vertical" tiller, or whipstaff, that would clear up the cockpit while functioning like a traditional tiller.

You could set it up similar to your drawing but, instead of a wheel, with a floor mounted single or outboard mounted pair of vertically oriented steering handles. Google "vertical tiller steering system"

Here's an advanced development of the simple system I mentioned: ETAP

Sail123 · Dec 8, 2012

Joe said:
A wheel would look stupid on a boat that small.

You might investigate the possibility of a "vertical" tiller, or whipstaff, that would clear up the cockpit while functioning like a traditional tiller.

You could set it up similar to your drawing but, instead of a wheel, with a floor mounted single or outboard mounted pair of vertically oriented steering handles. Google "vertical tiller steering system"

Here's an advanced development of the simple system I mentioned: ETAP

Third grade. Child in the third row, raises his hand, and asks a question, and the teacher says back, that would be stupid, and goes off on another direction.

If it were me, I would PM the OP and do a little AJing

Someday I would like to make a mini Mac 26M out of a Mac 19. I WOULD add wheel helm steering.

Chris Patterson · Dec 9, 2012

Minivan?

I'm still trying to figure out what a minivan is. Our Neighborhood Watch issued a warning a few weeks back that they had spotted one, and we have no clue. We contacted the Chief of Police about it, thinking it was one of those odd mid 70's looking autos with the great big chrome wheels on them, that we have occasionally seen at a distance in the Malwart parking lot. He replied no, that wasn't it probably, that they generally arrest and incarcerate those things on site, and it's unlikely that they would come in here.
So I told the wife, "Dang baby, call the Mercedes people and find out what it is". (I have to think of everything). She said that she no longer drives one, and that now it's an Acura. Well call those people! They said that they don't have a minivan model, and does not know WHO makes it. They recollected that it may be foreign made. No clue yet..

We, and the neighbors are very much concerned about this. Most strange..

Stu Jackson · Dec 9, 2012

Chris, you'd have to call Deetrowyt, I think some company called Khryslere still makes 'em, but there are only six or seven women who will still admit to being seen in public driving them, 'cuz you're right, the "minimum entry vehicle" these daze are Acuras, Infinitis and Mercedes SUVs.

Four on the floor, anyone?

Joe · Dec 9, 2012

Sail123 said:
Third grade. Child in the third row, raises his hand, and asks a question, and the teacher says back, that would be stupid, and goes off on another direction.

If it were me, I would PM the OP and do a little AJing

Someday I would like to make a mini Mac 26M out of a Mac 19. I WOULD add wheel helm steering.

Hmmm... strange comment.

Chris Patterson · Dec 9, 2012

I realize that my mind works in abstract dimensions, which is just a nicer way of saying weird, but some things compute as zero comprehension. bzzzzztt..< dead short

Sail123 · Dec 9, 2012

Joe said:
Hmmm... strange comment.

Joe, I will spill it out for you. We get a new member, and you call him stupid. That will build membership. What chapter was that in as you were reading, how to win friends and influence people?

You could have gracefully pointed out a tiller takes up less space in a smaller cockpit, and his conversion will reduce his feeling of space. Or, on the other hand, just refer to his idea as stupid, as you did. Your call.

His idea is not stupid, as you call it, but a choice someone can do to their sailboat. I bet if we call Edson on the phone, and ask them if they can sell us a wheel helm kit for his sailboat, the first remark they retort, will not be, why no sir, in fact, that would be stupid. Take a 100 dollar bet on that?

Does not matter, he is run off now anyway. Shame to see enthusiasm scalded

Joe · Dec 10, 2012

Sail123 said:
Joe, I will spill it out for you. We get a new member, and you call him stupid. That will build membership. What chapter was that in as you were reading, how to win friends and influence people?

You could have gracefully pointed out a tiller takes up less space in a smaller cockpit, and his conversion will reduce his feeling of space. Or, on the other hand, just refer to his idea as stupid, as you did. Your call.

His idea is not stupid, as you call it, but a choice someone can do to their sailboat. I bet if we call Edson on the phone, and ask them if they can sell us a wheel helm kit for his sailboat, the first remark they retort, will not be, why no sir, in fact, that would be stupid. Take a 100 dollar bet on that?

Does not matter, he is run off now anyway. Shame to see enthusiasm scalded

Well, Gary... sorry I offended you. Actually, my comment was meant to encourage him to seek another solution to his cockpit space problem.... and if you'll review the thread you'll note there were others that weren't particularly in love with putting a wheel on a small boat either..... but hey, it's just an opinion.

NC_FOOTLOOSE · Dec 10, 2012

I think the idea of an edson steering pedestal/wheel, along with the push-pull cable is the best option. I've had an edson-steered boat for 25 years and never needed the backup tiller. I've got an edson pedestal and 24" wheel for sale $150. Check it out on their site.

Wheel Conversion

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