Standing Rigging Replacement Tutorial

Status
Not open for further replies.
Feb 20, 2011
8,016
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
I'm going to make a prediction.
No sooner (let's say a week) than Oreana123 posts the particulars of the "tutorial", that a new member will ask, in their very first post, for someone to reiterate exactly what Oreana123 will have posted.
:lastweek:
Don't get me wrong, new members are the lifeblood of a lot of endeavours. :D

And, I've been wrong before!
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Ha ha ha it's true

Only I didn't take any pictures.....finished before anyone was interested!
 
Aug 16, 2012
22
MacGregor 26d Indianapolis
I think the question was about the aft chain plate and as to why it has two holes. I would reckon that they just use the same plates as they did on the sides to reduce exclusive parts. FWIW, my rear stay is on the upper hole but mine is "Frankenrigged" anyway.
Thanks Doc, that was my thinking as well. Just wanted to check with everyone.
 
Aug 16, 2012
22
MacGregor 26d Indianapolis
Thanks John/oreana, sorry to be the new user asking redundant questions as jsg pointed out. John, your knowledge, feedback and willingness to help is invaluable to me! Thank you!
 
Feb 20, 2011
8,016
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Thanks John/oreana, sorry to be the new user asking redundant questions as jsg pointed out. John, your knowledge, feedback and willingness to help is invaluable to me! Thank you!
I'm sorry to be so blunt.
The internet is an amazing resource, except for that whole "separating the wheat from the chaff" thing.

We were all newbie sailors once. Heck, I still am!
 
Aug 16, 2012
22
MacGregor 26d Indianapolis
I'm sorry to be so blunt.
The internet is an amazing resource, except for that whole "separating the wheat from the chaff" thing.

We were all newbie sailors once. Heck, I still am!
No worries, not new to sailing just to Macs. Trying to figure them out, but have nothing to go by (mast and rigging wise).
 
Aug 16, 2012
22
MacGregor 26d Indianapolis
The aft hole on the stem fitting is to connect the tack of the sail. The forward bottom grommet on your headsail attaches to this point.

The reason the backstay is mentioned with a 3-1 block and tackle, is because some boats are rigged with an adjustable (tension-wise) backstay. I have one. The backstay on the fractional rig that Roger M. designed for our boat, does not support the mast. As I look outside at my own 26D, I have the mast standing up with no backstay and no lower sidestays at this time.

I think you would be best served by restoring your standing rigging to a stock boat. I have myself installed a masthead forestay for different reasons than you are considering, but I have always retained my original forestay (stem fitting to hounds).

For my own new rig, I cut my wires to fit around a selected forestay length. I arrived at this length of forestay purely by what looks right. Perhaps I should explain my reasoning. While many have an opinion of what constitutes rake of the mast and its effect on weather and lee helm, there is no simple surface to set the mast angle to: waterline? boot stripe? some deck surface? And the position of the mast is determined by forestay length, the first wire I cut and fabricate.

I decided to install turnbuckles on all of my standing rigging wires. Because of the extra turnbuckle length over the stock adjusters, my custom rigging will not fit another Mac that does not use similar turnbuckles.

I am finished with my standing rigging. I did not take any pictures. I would be glad to help you with my experiences as you create a new rig for your boat. I would even consider measuring my rig and explaining where I purchased my parts from. You really should try to find a stock rig and mast for your boat. I can offer you a set of well-used spreader bars, if you pay postage. Good luck John S
Ok, that helps a great deal. If you don’t mind I have a couple of, what I am sure is to be a long list of, questions. The 3-1 B&T on the backstay. I see and understand that the mast can be supported with just the shrouds/sidestays and the forestay. What I am failing to see or understand is why one would tension the backstay if it’s not needed. It would seem to me that if you are tensioning the backstay, that the tension to the aft would relieve some of the load off the sidestays/shrouds. I guess I could kind of see that increasing or decreasing the backstay tension could somewhat act as a downhaul or an outhaul. It is just such a macro adjustment span for what I have always treated as a micro adjustment (like the forestay and shrouds). I’ve been sailing Precisions, Catalinas and J-Boats the MacGregors are new to me. Again, my reason for asking is to determine if this is for me and my 26D “Bad Girl”.

Yes, My plan is to restore the original stock rigging with the addition of a masthead forestay. Unfortunately, I have nothing to go by, all lost in the fire. What was your reasons for adding a masthead forestay? I believe you said your fractional forestay measures 23’, does the 23’ include the turnbuckle? From what I can surmise, the fractional forestay attaches about 22’ from the base of the mast (mast being 28’). Is that about correct? If you have the measurements for the upper shrouds location and the lower shrouds/spreaders location and could pass them along it would be greatly appreciated. I am currently hunting down a Hobie 18 used mast (28’1” I’m told). Yep, understand the whole weather, lee, boot stripe, waterline things (at least I think I do). I think turnbuckles would work fine for me as well. I think the male/female plates (never known if they have an actual name?) are stronger but I like the micro-adjust of the turnbuckle. The overall lengths including the turnbuckles of all your stays/shrouds would also be real handy in addition to the attachment point measurements. Damn, at this rate it might be easier for you to just make’em for me. J

Yes, would love to know where you sourced. I have a couple of off the beaten path suppliers but am always looking for another. You want to get rid of your spreaders and spreader attachment or just the spreaders? No luck with a stock mast, other than a new one. $1000.00+ w/shpg. Ouch! And that’s just the bare mast.

One more, off topic. What are the macs with the tall rail around the stern of the cockpit? 25’s? 26’s? year? My 88 just has a low rail and it doesn’t go around the stern.

Thanks again, you’ve been a great help and pray you’ll continue to be.
Kindest regards, John G
 

Erik V

.
Mar 14, 2012
104
Macgregor 25 Stony Point NY
I have set up my 87 M25 with 1.5 – 2 deg. of mast rake to help reduce weather helm and it helped. This angle was measured with respect to the water line with the boat loaded as we sail it. If you want a balanced helm and a good sailing boat check out the list below. There a lot of things happening and mast rake is just on of many adjustment you can make. Good luck time spent tuning your boat is worth the effort.
Checklist: Strategies
To reduce weather helm:

Move CE forward
1. Ease mainsheet and boomvang
2. Flatten main by tensioning outhaul and cunningham
3. Trim headsail sheet
4. Reef main (in high winds)
5. Rake mast forward

Move CLR aft
1. Shift crew weight aft
2. If heeling, move crew weight to windward
3. Raise centerboard

To correct lee helm:

Move CE aft
1. Trim mainsheet and boomvang
2. Add power to the main by easing outhaul and cunningham
3. Ease headsail sheet
4. Rake mast aft

Move CLR forward
1. Shift crew weight forward
2. If boat is not heeling, shift crew weight to leeward
3. Lower centerboard
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
www.marinepartdepot.com is the source of many of the SS castings on my boat, cheap snap shackles I purchased 4 1/4 inch turnbuckles for my sidestays

Fisheries Supply in Seattle is my source for 1/8 inch lower sidestay wire amd 5/32 forestay and upper sidestay 1X19

Buy your nicopress ovals and thimbles from Fisheries as well

1X19 wire is difficult to form around a thimble properly. I used a second set of hands, a vise, and a plastic mallet to form the wire around the thimble before swaging. Make each eye formed a work of art: well formed and tight.

I'll get some mast measurements for hole location

If you find a longer mast, consider using the extra length. One great thing is to be able to move the boom up the mast and clear out the cockpit headroom. I squared off and shortened my mainsail to accomplish this. Moving the boom up 12 inches is awesome!

I installed a masthead stay that comes down to a 4 foot boom that attaches to my bowrail using the eyes that secure the mast there when trailering. The entire rig and boom is quickly removed- there is nothing visible when removed except for a tang on the front of the mast at the top. The boom is guyed to 2 deck cleats and down to the trailer eye. This setup allows me to fly a yankee cut foresail.

Here is a little information about our sailplan. Fractional rigs have their mast bases set forward of the position one would find a masthead rig mastbase located. On our fractional rigs, the main mast supporting wires end well below the masthead at the hounds. Only the backstay runs to the masthead. This creates a potential bending point above the intersection of the forestay and upper sidestays.

If you have the ability to tighten and loosen the backstay, you have the ability to bend and release the mast above the hounds. Tightening the backstay, and therefore bending the mast aft, flattens the main. This can help to adapt to increasing windspeeds, to put off reefing. Conversly, loosening the backstay allows the main to become fuller, adapting to lighter air.

One could make the case that if you are not using an adjustable backstay on a fractional rig, you are not sailing the boat to its best performance. A cruiser would say"who cares" but a racer would install the adjuster.

Today I measured my rig tension and straightened the mast as best as I can until in the water. the Johnson lever worked awesome- I was able to unpin the forestay after releasing the lever and without loosening the turnbuckle, something I have been doing for almost 10 years:eek:
 
Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
Cpt. Creekbed said:
You want to get rid of your spreaders and spreader attachment or just the spreaders?
Are you asking me?

I will have to look again but I think I have it all available except the forestay and the mast extrusion. What is it you want?
 
Aug 16, 2012
22
MacGregor 26d Indianapolis
I can offer you a set of well-used spreader bars, if you pay postage. Good luck John S
Hi John S, Thanks - I'd like to take you up on your offer. If you calculate shpg i could send you $ through paypal.

Thanks! John G
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
OK I'll let you know the shipping.../.

Here are some lengths of wires. This is accurate to 1 inch

This arrangement and lengths equals 200 lbs tension on forestay, 350 lbs tension on upper sidestays. Who cares what the side lowers are tension-wise, they only straighten the lower part of the mast which is bowed forward due to upperside tension over the swept spreaders. Also, these wire measurements are from chainplate or stem fitting hole center, to either the hounds bracket or bolt. The bracket holds the forestay, the bolt mounts the 2 tangs that the upper side wires connect to....

Forestay 24 feet 6 inches

upper sidestay 23 foot 6 inches

lower sidestay 12 foot 8 inches

Drilling the mast----

My mast has a hole at 11 feet from the bast for the spreader bracket bolt. The upper spreader tang mounting bolt is 22 feet from the base

Good luck and you owe me a beer:D
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Capt creekbed meet Doc holiday. Sounds like Doc has the things you want. If not the wires, you want the hounds brackets and the spreader brackets, bars and end clamps.
 
Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
Don't let me get in the way, I was on the wrong thread where someone was looking for this stuff and wasn't trying to horn in. Didn't mean to intrude.
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Doc , Capt Creek has lost everything on his mast due to fire. He needs all brackets and tangs if you got em
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
....1X19 wire is difficult to form around a thimble properly. I used a second set of hands, a vise, and a plastic mallet to form the wire around the thimble before swaging. Make each eye formed a work of art: well formed and tight....
Good thread!!

I think it was you that mentioned...



...using cable clamps to help swage the thimbles. I used...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-24.html

...them and was able to do it by myself, but a second set of hands would sure help.

Did you find Fisheries Supply to have better pricing than riggingonly.com?

Good info for all of us, thanks,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
 
Aug 16, 2012
22
MacGregor 26d Indianapolis
Don't let me get in the way, I was on the wrong thread where someone was looking for this stuff and wasn't trying to horn in. Didn't mean to intrude.
Hello Doc, i replied to you in that other thread....Yes! very interested. thanks!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.