Did I make a mistake buying this boat?

[Ward H]

1976 Newport 17’ with 1000lb capacity Load Rite trailer. No rust on trailer.

Starting to have second thoughts on buying this boat. I went into it knowing the possible issues but I figured for a thousand bucks (boat and trailer) and cost of a motor I could sail it like it is for a season to see if my wife and I still like sailing.
Now it is time to get it wet the issues seem bigger.
I could have spent more on a boat in better condition but we didn't want to invest that much in a "beginner" boat. Plus I like doing the small things like changing out a fitting, replacing the lines and sheets, small stuff like that. A couple of what I thought were small issues are crunched fiberglass around the mast step plate and some cracks at the top of the motor mount. I had visions of the mast blowing over or the motor dropping off so I took it to a fiberglass repair shop. Estimate is about $1000 if the motor mount cracks haven't let water into the wood and it starting rotting. Then more to fix that.
I know the iron swing keel will need to be dropped sometime. It is rusted and shows sign of spalding. (right term?)
The good news is there are no other cracks or even large gouges in the hull or top side. Just some minor spider web cracks. We did check it with a moisture meter and the hull appeared to be very dry.

Now I am worried that I might be sinking more money into it than it is worth.
Am I looking at it wrong? When fixing up an old boat do you or can you judge investment against return if you sell it?
I am not concerned about esthetics. I just don't want it to break down on us.

In one thread Chris told me to get some oars and take it out and enjoy it. Wish I could but I keep having these thoughts that the structural stuff needs to be done first and I don’t go to the Safe Boating class until the 28th.

I am going to a ASA101 course in May.

Am I overthinking this? Worrying too much? Is this normal with boats?

Appreciate your thoughts.

PS I attached photos of the mast foot damage and motor mount cracks.

 

[Sail123]

This will not be your last boat. Trust me on that.

At 17', it is not impossible to find a small lake, and just try it out before that class.

Get it wet, and than you will see what it is all about.

October 1, purchased sailboat
October 1, purchased second sailboat
October 17, purchased powerboat
played on boats till lake froze
March 1, traded first sailboat for bigger sailboat
April 2, Purchased larger sailboat.

Get in that thing and start expanding on what it is you got the sailboat to do, and start dreaming.

Sell this one on Craigslist for a little more than you payed, and start moving up.

Don't stick a bunch of money in an old boat trying to make it new again.

 

[Doug L]

The mast step does not look too bad, I would sail it as it is. The motor mount looks a bit worse. This is your first boat. Use a little lightweight outboard or electric trolling motor and sail it. If you like the boat a lot, repair the motor mount, or sell it and buy something nicer. Don't over thinek it, you are not crossing the ocean on it.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Before anything else, I'd check the mast step. If the core is rotted there from water intrusion where it is cracked, it could be too weak to hold the substantial load once the boat is rigged and the stays lightened. After than a thorough inspection of this area, if it appears structurally safe, rig the boat on the hard and tighten the stays and then wait a day or two to see if they have loosened - a sure sign the mast step is sagging.

Hope that isn't the case.

 

[finding41]

It is a used boat. It is worth more than you paid if it has sails. Give it a good cleaning and go sailing. Take someone who knows this type of boat with you your first time out. Not Your Wife. Get framiliar with the boat first unless the two of you are training safety courses together. (You don't want to scare her right away.)
My wife and I are taking courses to get our operator cards (required by law for anything over 10hp) to get a refresher on water safety and the markers etc. (Our 26' boat only has a 7.5 hp)
I agree with the small motor advice. Its only 17' long, don't put a 50 hp on it, way too heavy for that.
There is a tone of great info on this site and others on how to repair fiberglass. (Start looking with the search feature above on the right.) Its not that hard! To prove that statement go to YouTube and type fiberglass repair. See, lots of info.
Happy sailing and welcome to the site.

 

[Benny17441]

It's hard to tell from pictures but it really does not look that bad. Don't spend any money until you have acertained the condition of the boat. Go ahead and step the mast and tighten or tune the riggin and go sailing. If the shrouds and stays do not loose any tension right away then there might be no urgency to repair the mast step. It may be that it might take months for some loss of tension to show on the wires but heck is not a new boat so just retighten them and continue sailing. As far as the motor mount, it only has to be able to be able to sustain the weight of a suitable engine and a few extra pounds for a safety marging. Try to find a small 2 stroke engine as they are the lightest but it would have to be used as new ones are no longer sold in the US. Just grab the motor mount with your hands and pull, push and lift it and if nothing breaks I would trust it to put an engine on it. In some boats the transom will flex under the weight and thrust of the outboard engine. Unless the flexing is continuous and excessive it should not be a cause for concern. Your boat could probably work fine with a 2-3 or 4 HP engine. Anything beyond that would be a waste of money and fuel. Rowing a small sailboat may prove quite difficult so consider borrowing an engine or getting an electric trolling motor to test the boat.

 

[Joe]

First.... at this level, I wouldn't pay anyone else to make an expensive repair. Either fix it yourself, or chalk it up to experience and start looking for another boat.... my suggestion is to fix it yourself.

One thing you can do regarding the mast step is to make sure the compression post is in good order. On a deck stepped mast, there will be support under the deck to take the mast strain and transfer it to the keel or sides of the boat. Sometimes, instead of a post there will be a reinforced arch at the critical point.... but the main thing to remember is that shrouds and stays will keep the mast upright, the baseplate area and compression post are there to support the downward pressure caused by the supporting guys.

With that in mind, you can look for additonal ways to give more support to the mast and spend that $1000 on new sails instead. If there is no compression post.... make one from a piece of pipe and build a wide keel step to spread the load around the bottom/keel area...at the top of the post, craft another block to give support to the area around the deck step.... in your driveway, rig the mast and tighten down the stays and see what happens.... make adjustments in necessary. Learn to work with fiberglass ...it ain't that hard. It's the gel coating and buffing that is expensive, and I'll bet that's where most of the expense is from your repair estimate.....'cause that picture you posted is not a thousand dollar job.

Here's another option........ get another estimate... and tell him you just want reinforcement... not restoration.

As far as the motor mount...... move it to the other side. Make a big backing plate out of plywood and bolt the mount to the other side of the transom.

But if you don't want to rely on the motor, install some oarlocks, invest in a set of oars, stow them on board, out of the way.... and go sailing.

Practice rigging the boat at home..... get in the thing and visualize what you will do when you tack and jibe. Learn to raise and lower the center board and rudder.

Adopt a postivie attitude....... take your cell phone with you so you can call for help if you have a break down.... buy a hand held gps. Read sailing books. If you're unsure, don't sail too far from the marina the first time out, or get/pay someone to go out with you the first tiem.... what ever... but get on the water and start learning how your boat is gonna serve you.

 

[CalebD]

First.... at this level, I wouldn't pay anyone else to make an expensive repair. Either fix it yourself, or chalk it up to experience and start looking for another boat.... my suggestion is to fix it yourself.
... snip ...
Adopt a postivie attitude.......

Here are the sailboatdata specs on the Newport 17': http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=4571

I'm with Joe on the "DIY" idea. The fastest way to go broke while sailing is to have other people do your boat work for you. I learned about West System epoxy back when I was 21 with a 14' fiberglass day sailor because I could barely afford the materials much less someone doing my repairs for me. I actually learned a lot about using epoxy/fiberglass by trying to fix stuff I never had before.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/

Yes, you do have to farm out some work to people who may have tools or expertise you don't yet have but if you acquire the tools and skills somehow you wont have to farm out so much work.

If you can use a sander, drill, saw, use a wrench, wear a dusk mask, mix paint, use a paintbrush and can stand the smell of turpentine and worse you can do almost any boat work.

Regarding the specific issues you mentioned:

Reinforce your transom with some epoxy coated 3/4" plywood and paint it if you are worried about your engine falling off. I like the lightweight older 2 stroke engine idea or electric trolling motor previously mentioned. If you will mostly be on lakes a trolling motor makes a lot of sense and will weigh very little - the battery to power it will weigh a lot more though.

Set the rig (mast & boom) up on the boat and check to see that it doesn't sag - as mentioned.

I'd be more concerned with the center board which you mentioned was rusty and 'spalding'. If it still swings freely and is solid then no worries but if it is splaying or spreading and getting caught or stuck in the trunk then you have something to worry about. Your boat is designed to sail with the center board in the down position as it really has no keel. I clean out the center board slot on my 27' boat every year because of barnacle growth using: a file, rasp, saw blade, chisel or any hunk o' metal I can get up in the slot.

Long winded conclusion:

It is good to try to see problems before they arise but you can drive yourself a bit over the edge trying to foresee every little thing. If you are as anal as I am (and I hope you are not) you would set up the rig on the trailer before even going to the launching ramp (I also like to know that things will go as planned).

The real payoff is when you are out on the water on your own boat and can finally relax and enjoy it.

 

[rgranger]

The things you described can be fixed over a few long weekends... for very little money. If you lack the confidence to do the repairs think about getting a copy of Don Casey's book the Complete Sailboat Maintenance Manual

http://www.amazon.com/Caseys-Comple...2848/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335008859&sr=8-1

It will walk you through a step by step (illustrated) procedure for making core repairs, fiberglass repairs, electric repairs etc. It is a great resource.

 

[petersea]

Ward, here are my thought on this, first since this is a "beginner" boat don't spend lots of money on it. Most likely you will either get get a bigger boat or get rid of this not have a boat. So others have given good ideas about the mast so other then repeating what they have said I will only suggest that you may be able to infuse some epoxy into the deck around the mast step to strength it. As far as the motor mount you need to determine if the transom is weak or if the cracks are more cosmetic. A possibility is to move the engine mount to the other side using a wooden wedge to mimic the fiberglass wedge. As far as the outboard falling off while unlikely it is a possibility however most small outboard should have a safety line attached to it so this can not happen While these repairs may not be a 20 year fix they will get you thur long enough to decide if sailing is something you want to stay with. With only $1000 invested you can spend some money and use some of your "sweat equity" and even in a worse case not get hurt real bad since you can sell the trailer and part out the boat if needed but I think you can get a couple of seasons out of this boat with some do it youself repairs. Good Luck !

 

[Cayennita]

Make a plywood or aluminum backing plate and through bolt the mount. You'll need angle wedge in the inside. Now the mount can't depart from the boat. You can get SS bolts of just about any length or use a threaded rod. The rest you can do a little filling and touching up. Same with the mast step. It appears sound enough. Check the compression post. Put one in if there is none. Again cosmetics. In one of my older boats, I removed the balsa core and made it of solid glass by applying multiple precut pieces of fiberglass. Sand, fill, tape off and paint. DIY!

 

[NYSail]

Put the boat in the water and sail her.... those items, while maybe an issue do not look so bad from the picture. If this is just a tester, use it as such and chock the $1,000 to learning. In a boat for me... I do not really look at a return on money, the amount my soul sings when I am on her is reason enough to spend with a smile!!

Apply weight to the engine bracket and see if there is any flexing.... that will show you right away if there is more trouble.

Don't over think.... over sail!!

 

[Kevin3447]

Besides all of the good advice above, put a safety tether on your motor that attaches to a different point on the boat, maybe a cleat on the starboard side? I don't think the motor mount looks that bad, it's just for a backup.

 

[watercolors II]

One pin

Use only one pin in the cabin mast step, as someone has already said the pressure on the mast base is down not side to side. The mast under certain weather or mechanical means can more forward or backwards a little, as the top of the mast moves with two pins the mast base is going to move and if the base is attached to fiberglass it will crack at its weakest point.

The mast and base has two holes so you can raise the mast up from the stern or the bow. The mast will usually rock or pull towards the stern so with just one pin at the back of the base the mast can hinge backwards without applying lift pressure on the front of the base.

A friend, with LOTS of money, had a marina repair an old boat to like new condition. They made their own mast cabin base by welding 2 thickness of 3/16 inch stainless, it was strong and pretty but, because it would not give it broke the bottom of the mast attachment fixture in about 2 months of sailing.

 

[Calif. Ted]

If you can tune the rig and it stays in tune I'd sail it as is then make a decision at the end of your season. If you start fixing this boat it'll be an unending project, this is a lightly rigged 17' boat it isn't going to be generating a lot of stress on the rig.

 

[Squidd]

sail it like it is for a season to see if my wife and I still like sailing.

That's what you bought it for...so what's with the second guessing...?

 

[rgranger]

Ward

One more thing.... if you don't already have an outboard, think of getting a trolling motor. A 55lb thrust outboard will push your boat at near hull speed, it is MUCH less expensive, it is silent and a two battery bank will be all you need for a long weekend. Charge the batteries with a trickle charger solar panel ($20 on eBay) and you are good to go when the next weekend rolls around.

 

[Ward H]

First, thanks for taking the time to write well thought out responses and suggestions. I appreciate every one of them.
Basically……… I got carried away. You guys got me back on track. Thank You!

I spent yesterday and last night watching all the You Tube videos on fiberglass repairs.
Then I studied the West Systems epoxy materials. Yes, I can do that!

The mast step now sounds easy. I decided I can fill the crunched areas with thickened epoxy. I may also add a couple of layers of fiberglass on the underside to strengthen the dome area and use oversize washers under the lock nuts. (It does not have a compression post, no sign of one being removed.)

I have put all of my 232 lbs on the motor mount. There was a slight flex in the transom, under the wedge, but the cracks on top did not visibly open up. I think I will grind those cracks and fill with some thickened epoxy and give that a try.

Mainly, I am not going to worry what my repairs look like. If we really like the boat, there is plenty of time to pretty them up.

I will start with those repairs when I have time but my first priority is to get out sailing, which should be next Sunday. (Safe Boating class is Sat)

I did buy a 4 stroke 4hp Tohatsu. That was the smallest motor with reverse gear.
If there are any signs of the fiberglass or mount failing, I like the idea of epoxying plywood on the starboard side of the transom and installing a new mount bracket there.

Here is a list of things the boat does have going for it: All standing rigging, mast and boom are intact and in good shape, main sail is in good shape, jib sail is brand new, seat cushions are brand new, two oars included, it came with all safety equipment and vests for four people. Even came with a SS cotter pin/round kit. There are no visible leaks in the cabin. Trailer even came with new tires.

I figure I paid $500 for the boat and $500 for the trailer.

Now I am back on track. Thanks Again!

Ward

 

[Ward H]

Here is a photo of the Newport the day I gave it a trial sail. (Jib not up yet)

 

[Benny17441]

Well, how did it do?