We've got the bad boy extreme too and it works really well-up 12 feet on my radar mast. One of the big plusses of this system (the bullet) is it uses ethernet and POE so you can run a long cable to it with no loss
WiFi antennas
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Just curious, what kind of performance did you get at 30 miles? Also, I'd be real interested in anything you can add regarding the 100 mile link. I don't doubt your claims, it's my other hobby. The 5 mile connection was continous, all day at a fixed location with the remote unit about 15 feet off the ground. 5 miles may be child's play across the water or on top of mountains, but in flat Louisiana, it's pretty good, not to mention done with home made antennas.
@ 30 miles I could get a consistant 15 Mbps and 5-10ms latency, with bursts up to 22 Mbps. This was done with large 3ft solid parabolic dish antennas on communications towers. You have to use a modified 802.11 unit as the normal ack timeout function actually begins to fail at ~5 miles if memory serves. The equipment was Ubiquiti SR5 or XR5 802.11a radios running on a MikroTik Routerboard using MikroTik's propriotory NStream polling driver to coordinate the transmission times.
I (or more often my employees) used to install links of 3-5 miles twice, sometimes three times a day, but using smaller flat panel directional antennas opposed to the large dish antennas. Whenever we did the large or extra long distance I would always jump in, but left most of the "short range" stuff to them as it was quite literally part of the "daily routine".
The people that have acheived links of excess of 100km I know of have all used essentially the same setup, except with even larger dish antennas (some over 5 feet), and instead of communications towers, mountains.
Like I said before, a #10 tin can, a stiff copper wire and a UHF connector to tie it all together. Stick it on a rotatable pole and you have a 0-5 mile solution.
Yes you have to repoint it with the change in wind or tide while on the hook and if your boat sails on anchor a lot it might be a pain.
Yes you have to repoint it with the change in wind or tide while on the hook and if your boat sails on anchor a lot it might be a pain.
This whole message thread, although very interesting, causes me to wonder about the ethics of it all. Consider...
Suppose I live a mile or two inland from the coast. I've paid for and setup my house wifi network to be used by me and my family. You, while sailing along the coast, decide to aim your high tech antenna towards the general shoreline in hopes of finding and using a network connection. You happen to notice that my wifi signal is not encrypted, and thus you assume you can use it. Am I right so far?
In other words... you feel that because I've not protected something that is mine that you have a right to use it? Really?
Jack
Suppose I live a mile or two inland from the coast. I've paid for and setup my house wifi network to be used by me and my family. You, while sailing along the coast, decide to aim your high tech antenna towards the general shoreline in hopes of finding and using a network connection. You happen to notice that my wifi signal is not encrypted, and thus you assume you can use it. Am I right so far?
In other words... you feel that because I've not protected something that is mine that you have a right to use it? Really?
Jack
The other things to consider are that 1, you are not doing anything on that connection that is against the law.. and 2, in this day of "unlimited" data on the internet connection, you aren't costing the "provider" of your WiFi any dollars at all.. You can't see his computer or his files .. he is protected.. I don't see the problem with temporarily using his service to check e-mail and get weather updates.
kinda like using a dockmate's water hose at the slip.. ya don't break it, it doesn't cost him anything..
kinda like using a dockmate's water hose at the slip.. ya don't break it, it doesn't cost him anything..
There are a number of public internet connections out there and they seem to be growing. We used some on the last trip. Some are put up by private individuals just because they want to do it, some are put up by cities and some by businesses. Some ask that you limit large downloads and such.
The computer we hook up with has no private/banking or other vital info on it. Also our Bullet radio and router is unsecured, so if you are anchored near us you can gain access through us if we have a connection.
A person can secure their home system in a couple minutes and I feel that they are foolish not to myself, but that is their choice just like it is against the law to come in my house or car, but I still lock them. The chances of us connecting to a home more than a few blocks inland are pretty slim. Long distance wifi, over 4-5 miles really only happens when the people doing it control both ends of the system as it requires directional antennas that we can't use effectively on our boats. Since most home systems don't have much in the way of antennas and are only designed to send or receive over a very short distance it is hard for us to connect to them.
People that are providing public access, free or for fee, have much better equipment and they are who you are likely to access.
Sum
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The computer we hook up with has no private/banking or other vital info on it. Also our Bullet radio and router is unsecured, so if you are anchored near us you can gain access through us if we have a connection.
A person can secure their home system in a couple minutes and I feel that they are foolish not to myself, but that is their choice just like it is against the law to come in my house or car, but I still lock them. The chances of us connecting to a home more than a few blocks inland are pretty slim. Long distance wifi, over 4-5 miles really only happens when the people doing it control both ends of the system as it requires directional antennas that we can't use effectively on our boats. Since most home systems don't have much in the way of antennas and are only designed to send or receive over a very short distance it is hard for us to connect to them.
People that are providing public access, free or for fee, have much better equipment and they are who you are likely to access.
Sum
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our MacGregor S Pages[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mac-Venture Links[/FONT]
Things I could use a wifi connection for while coastal cruising and island hopping:
Supporting my writing in order to continue earning the dollars that would allow me to cruise extensively rather than remain a dirt dwelling wage slave. I couldn't accomplish much without ready access to sites like Wikipedia and the Web in general for research, and the ability to submit materials to editors without having to go ashore and find an internet cafe would be very nice.
Allowing me to do the online banking, property management and email necessary to manage my affairs in order to enable long term cruising from the security of my own laptop via an https connection rather than having to risk using a sketchy internet cafe rental computer running a key logger that steals all my passwords and pins.
Browsing Active Captain to find current and up to date cruising information rather than rely on the grossly out of date local cruising guide that was written before Katrina and Ivan wiped out over half the places that the guide lists as Must See.
Posting messages to forums like this for things like "Oh my god the whatsit on my Yanmar just fell off and the shop manual doesn't say anything about how to replace it. Help!"
Moniitoring weather radar and local forecasts, and keeping up on local and national news so we have some general idea of what's happening in the world.
And yes, streaming the occasional TV show. We don't sail every available minute. Sometimes we're tied up in a nice marina, and we want to relax and see who got eliminated on the last episode of Top Chef.
And that's just off the top of my head.
I will be installing something in the next few months. I'm between islandtime pc or the wirieAP. (http://www.thewirie.com/marine-wifi-product-AP.html) I've read very good things about both. I like the wirie because it is self contained and easier to install but the jury is out for me yet.
Why do this? Banking, weather, check in with family, Netflix if stuck somewhere for a weather delay or mechanical issue etc, downloading new books, I could go on.
I was a transient at 2 different marinas and despite being within 50 yds of the hotspot we sat too low to get a signal on the boat.
I think another important feature to these units is being able to throttle power up or down. If I recall islandtime pc is able as is the wirie but I haven't read much on the bullet. There is a comparison chart at the bottom of the link I included. I'd still suggest fact checking and speaking to other users. There are tons of discussions out there. SC
Why do this? Banking, weather, check in with family, Netflix if stuck somewhere for a weather delay or mechanical issue etc, downloading new books, I could go on.
I was a transient at 2 different marinas and despite being within 50 yds of the hotspot we sat too low to get a signal on the boat.
I think another important feature to these units is being able to throttle power up or down. If I recall islandtime pc is able as is the wirie but I haven't read much on the bullet. There is a comparison chart at the bottom of the link I included. I'd still suggest fact checking and speaking to other users. There are tons of discussions out there. SC
Can any of you explain to me the advantage of having a wifi transceiver that can throttle or adjust it's output power? I have an Alfa 2000mw transceiver and I believe that it is capable of transmitting at reduced output, but I don't know why I would want to do so.
most wifi radios cannot actually handle signals stronger than about -40dBm. Think of it like going to a rock concert and standing in front of the speakers, then trying to hear what the singer is saying.
Also it's nice and neighborly to turn down the power if you don't need it, too much power raises the noise floor for everyone else which causes someone with a weaker signal to potentially loose their connection.
Also it's nice and neighborly to turn down the power if you don't need it, too much power raises the noise floor for everyone else which causes someone with a weaker signal to potentially loose their connection.
OK, but observations of signal strength show that if I am really lucky I see maybe -65db. I typically see more like -72db to -83db for signals about 1/4-1/3 mile away from my boat.
anything between -60 and -75 I would call a good signal. below -75 you will usually start dropping to lower modulation rates, and below -85 most consumer grade radios will be unable to reliably maintain a connection. What you need to remember though, is that is your receive signal, not your transmit signal...
When you look at the signal strength in your device, that is the strength you are receiving the access points signal, and has nothing to do with how strong the access point sees your signal, so you really have no idea what the signal is.
Getting a higher power radio does not improve the receive signal strength one bit (although if the higher power is also a higher quality radio then it may be able to reliably process a weaker signal than a lower quality radio).
If you replaced a 100mw radio with a 2000mw radio, then you still wouldn't see the signal improve on your end, but the access point would see your signal as if you were right next to it, even at a 1/2 mile away. The problem comes in when you are only 300 ft away, then you would be over driving the receive radio, and no one will be able to connect, including yourself.
forgot to add - if your device tells you the modulation rate for both transmit and receive, then a good indicator that your signal is being received at a similar strength to what you are receiving the access point signal is if both the transmit and receive modulation rate is the same. If your receive modulation rate is 6Mbps, but your transmit modulation rate is 48Mbps, that is a good sign that you have too much transmit power, and you along with everyone near you will experience problems when closer to the access point.
Interesting. Thanks for the info. I think (from what I have read) that the typical power output of a wireless router is about 100mw. Assuming the access points that I to which I connect are 100mw outputs and I see marginally low signals in many cases, I would think that if I transmit at 2000mw (which is about 13db more than 100mw) then I would likely be presenting the access point with a decent signal. I am rarely within 300 feet of an access point, so I still don't see a benefit to reduce my output power. am I missing something else?
I understand that my reception depends upon my antenna gain and the sensitivity of my receiver. I'm working on a hi-gain antenna solution to address that problem.
I understand that my reception depends upon my antenna gain and the sensitivity of my receiver. I'm working on a hi-gain antenna solution to address that problem.
Hey Rich
I think what FourPoints is getting at is a high power transmitter (yours) will be hearable by all the other boats around you and that will cause them to have to strain to hear the access point signal. That makes them all go to "high power" or repeat their transmissions to get their signal through. That makes it a fairly "chatty" environment and makes the data rates go down due to "lost packets"
Kinda like the guy with a 100 watt VHF in the marina, it does not matter what channel you are listening on you hear him and can't get your transmission out. So you have to keep trying and tie up the bandwidth to the marina shore station.
What kind of antenna (directional or just high gain omni) are you considering?
I think what FourPoints is getting at is a high power transmitter (yours) will be hearable by all the other boats around you and that will cause them to have to strain to hear the access point signal. That makes them all go to "high power" or repeat their transmissions to get their signal through. That makes it a fairly "chatty" environment and makes the data rates go down due to "lost packets"
Kinda like the guy with a 100 watt VHF in the marina, it does not matter what channel you are listening on you hear him and can't get your transmission out. So you have to keep trying and tie up the bandwidth to the marina shore station.
What kind of antenna (directional or just high gain omni) are you considering?
hey jack4865
The internet is the wild wild west. If there is an unprotected signal out there there is very little to stop someone from using it for their own purposes except personal morals. So you are going to find someone who will use the access point unless you protect it.
If you encrypt the signal (even the easy to hack ones) you have gone a long way to protect yourself from having someone hack your network and steal your precious computer electrons. In a court all you have to prove is that you did not intend to make your network a hot spot but encrypting it. it does not matter that the encryption is easy to hack. It is the fact that they had to hack it to get access
now if you have MS then not only is the hack easy but they will have complete access to all the computers on your network. You can set up your router to firewall your computers so that only certain mac addresses can talk to each other to share files.
Another easy solution is to just not broadcast your SSID. They get a list of access points but yours does not show up. And yes even this can be bypassed with the correct software.
The internet is the wild wild west. If there is an unprotected signal out there there is very little to stop someone from using it for their own purposes except personal morals. So you are going to find someone who will use the access point unless you protect it.
If you encrypt the signal (even the easy to hack ones) you have gone a long way to protect yourself from having someone hack your network and steal your precious computer electrons. In a court all you have to prove is that you did not intend to make your network a hot spot but encrypting it. it does not matter that the encryption is easy to hack. It is the fact that they had to hack it to get access
now if you have MS then not only is the hack easy but they will have complete access to all the computers on your network. You can set up your router to firewall your computers so that only certain mac addresses can talk to each other to share files.
Another easy solution is to just not broadcast your SSID. They get a list of access points but yours does not show up. And yes even this can be bypassed with the correct software.
Wifi on the cheap --- the cantenna!!
http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html
or
http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/has.html
http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html
or
http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/has.html
I am considering a round tri-quad design. I can't find my translated info (from German) right now but I seem to remember that it had an omnidirectional gain of about 12-13db.
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