It's time to play "Coach the Newbie"

[jfmid]

Hello all,

I am in the process of adding a steaming light to the front of my mast, swapping out the anchor light with an LED light, and replacing the old Shakespeare antenna with a Metz version. All of this is on the hard with the mast on sawhorses.

Mast is 29'10" high. Aluminum Zspar (see photo)

Mast base was sent to RigRite in RI and yes it came back repaired thanks to the lovely Megan there who tracked it down and saw it finished and back to me. Yea for Megan.
I put in another conduit by putting a slot down a 3/4" Sched 200 irrigation pipe and pushing it up the inside of the mast on the conduit guide. Pretty closely matches the other conduit that's there. This mast seemed to have to "guides" for 2 conduits so I copied the existing one.

OK I've pulled new wires for the 3 components..... Ancor 16-2 for led anchor light, 16-3 for steaming/deck combo light, and RG-8x for VHF. These will go to through deck connectors located directly in front of mast and then wired to switch panel inside cabin. I am using Ancor heat shrink crimp connectors with the Ancor ratchet crimper. Tried to solder as a test the Pl-259 and quickly realized that it's beyond me. (Thanks Maine sail for your tutorial) The Ancor crimper was within my budget and this is not an around the world odyssey craft but a Barnegat bay day sailor.

Now the questions.
1. When I make the connection for the led wires at the top of the mast do I just let the wires hang down the conduit and is the weight of the hanging wires down the conduit going to over time pull the connections apart by fatiguing them. I saw Maine Sails tests and see the strength of the connections (if done correctly) but do they hold long term with the weight of the wires on them???? I dont see any way to "take the weight" off the connectors by "securing" the wires before they enter the conduit on the way down to the mast base and the deck. Perhaps this is a nonexistent issue. Ok if I'm overworrying. Just tell me so and I'll let it go.


2. There is a slot on the front of the mast towards the top (see pic) that I have no idea what it's pupose is.

3. There is a sheave on the mast base that is at directly at a right angle to the mast that I have no idea what it's purpose is (see pic) The white sheaves are for the Main sail halyards, primary and spare, obviously, there's a matching pair on the other side of the mast base. These are the new ones replaced by Rig Rite. they lead aft to cockpit. The black sheave leads to the middle of the side of the boat.

4. I am planning to use 1/4 in. X 5/8 in. aluminum rivets to secure the mast base to the mast. ( see pic) Mast base is aluminum as well as the mast stem. Anyone see a prob. with this???

5. I wish to place a small pennant line on the spreader. I dream of hoisting a pirate flag someday as I conquer vessels crewed by scurvy dogs and steal their rum, booty, and pretty wenches. Ok just rambling. Seriously anyone have a suggestion for the best way to secure a small sheave to the bottom the spreader??? no pic of the spreader but it's aluminum too.

As I've said before this is the greatest site on the web and I love the comradeship and friendliness that is here. Without all the great help everyone provides I wouldn't have been able or willing to attack these projects. Thanks for everything.

John

 

[Paul Brinkley]

John- my suggestions:
1. to support wires- tie a large overhand or figure 8 knot in your wires at the top of the mast, leaving enough slack for connections. Know should be large enough to not go into the conduit.
2. Slot- ? is there a place for a sheave? Could it be for a spinnaker? Could go with the odd sheave (3) at the base of the mast.
4. All aluminum- should be fine.
5. For my flag halyard, I use a small SS hose clamp to fasten a sheave to the spreader.
Have fun! -Paul

 

[caguy]

How do you plan on preventing the wires and especially the antenna wire from slapping. I replaced mine with foam tied to the antenna wire as was the piece I replaced. It wasn't enough to stop the loud slap this weekend. I will need to pull more foam into the mast. I plan on attaching a little larger pieces every 3 ft to a light line and pull the though the length of the mast.
Unless someone has a better idea.

 

[jfmid]

How do you plan on preventing the wires and especially the antenna wire from slapping. I replaced mine with foam tied to the antenna wire as was the piece I replaced. It wasn't enough to stop the loud slap this weekend. I will need to pull more foam into the mast. I plan on attaching a little larger pieces every 3 ft to a light line and pull the though the length of the mast.
Unless someone has a better idea.

This is why I placed a 2nd conduit inside the mast. There was one conduit which held the anchor light and vhf coax. I was able to mimic the existing conduit with a 2nd one that contains the 16-3 to mid mast for the steaming light / deck light combo.
Being able to install a 2nd conduit was a huge find when i pulled the mast apart. I got lucky.

 

[jfmid]

John- my suggestions:
1. to support wires- tie a large overhand or figure 8 knot in your wires at the top of the mast, leaving enough slack for connections. Know should be large enough to not go into the conduit.
2. Slot- ? is there a place for a sheave? Could it be for a spinnaker? Could go with the odd sheave (3) at the base of the mast.
4. All aluminum- should be fine.
5. For my flag halyard, I use a small SS hose clamp to fasten a sheave to the spreader.
Have fun! -Paul

There is no place for a sheave in the slot. The slot has a plastic "lining" or insert that protects the opening. Your idea of a spinnaker seems possible. Perhaps there was a line down to the odd sheave at the base of the mast and a spinnaker could have been attached to it. Seems kind of hinkey to use Abbies term from NCIS. Hey this is what makes it interesting. Playing Columbo. Ah ma'am just one more question???

 

[Winkfish]

1. How about electrical tape around the connection to help take the weight of the wires off the connection?

2. The slot is probably for some type of halyard, maybe spinnaker? Is there an extra sheave at the top of the mast? Such a halyard would usually be inside the mast from the top to the slot, then come out of the mast via the slot, then to a winch or cleat.

3. No idea what it would be for. Again, is there an extra sheave at the top of the mast? Where does your jib halyard run? (Never heard of a spare main with a separate halyard, but I've heard starnger things.)

4. & 5. I have ideas, but as I'm not a mechanic/boat builder, I'll pass.

 

[jfmid]

1. How about electrical tape around the connection to help take the weight of the wires off the connection?

2. The slot is probably for some type of halyard, maybe spinnaker? Is there an extra sheave at the top of the mast? Such a halyard would usually be inside the mast from the top to the slot, then come out of the mast via the slot, then to a winch or cleat.

3. No idea what it would be for. Again, is there an extra sheave at the top of the mast? Where does your jib halyard run? (Never heard of a spare main with a separate halyard, but I've heard starnger things.)

4. & 5. I have ideas, but as I'm not a mechanic/boat builder, I'll pass.

There is no unused sheave at the top of the mast. There are two sheaves side by side that lead aft for the main halyard and spare halyard. Sorry to have implied that there are 2 mains. I meant 2 main halyards. Your idea makes a bit of sense if there was a sheave at the top o the mast then a line could run from the "extra" sheave at the base, up to the top and then down and out the slot to hoist a spinnaker. makes sense to me. Unfortunately there is nothing up top.

 

[LloydB]

You might try a home made snubber grip by twisting about a foot long #12 solid copper conductor around the wires in a lose spiral. where the copper exits the pipe just make a sharp bend back over the edge like a 'J' hook. Think of it as a 3/8" spring then stretched out 10" to wrap around a 1/2" bundle. You might want to wrap the spiral with electrical tape when done because it will look as if it will uncoil; or for the same reason I would (it's wire and it has electrons in it) works for me

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Lots of questions ...

I never thought to worry about the weight of the wire on the connections. The connection never failed in the past, and if it does, I guess it's just time to fix it. For the flag halyard, just get a kit and hang it on the spreader with self-tapping screws. There's nothing to get hung up on the pointy ends inside the spreaders, is there?

 

[jfmid]

I never thought to worry about the weight of the wire on the connections. The connection never failed in the past, and if it does, I guess it's just time to fix it. For the flag halyard, just get a kit and hang it on the spreader with self-tapping screws. There's nothing to get hung up on the pointy ends inside the spreaders, is there?

Nothing inside the spreaders so yeah I think your idea is the winner. A small kit with self tapping screws and keep it simple and nows the time to do it with the mast down.
Not like it's gonna hoist hundreds of pounds. I just like the idea of a small pennant/burgee.

 

[THECUSCUS]

CAYGUY: To keep your wires from slapping inside the mast, put three 7" wire ties around the wires every three feet or so. Orient each tie in a different direction and they willl keep the wire(s) away from the mast. They are flexible and therfore makes it easy to pull the wire through the mast (or back down if needed). The black ties are generally better quallity than the clear ones. Those with bigger masts can use longer ties.

 

[FourPoints]

1. When I make the connection for the led wires at the top of the mast do I just let the wires hang down the conduit and is the weight of the hanging wires down the conduit going to over time pull the connections apart by fatiguing them.

use a SS cable grip. I used to use them on bundles of cable hanging 300' up from cell towers, they work great to spread the load around and don't pinch anthing, and the SS ones won't corrode
http://www.elecdirect.com/catalog/d2321b10-5a26-4a70-acb6-a076cd185e33.aspx

2. There is a slot on the front of the mast towards the top (see pic) that I have no idea what it's pupose is.

It looks like a halyard exit, but odd that there isn't a shive inside it. Call US Spars in Florida (US division of Z Spars) and ask them, they will be able to give you a definitive answer. You can also order parts if you want to install a shive there for a spinnaker halyard exit, I think they run less than $100.
http://www.usspars.com/contactus.asp

3. There is a sheave on the mast base that is at directly at a right angle to the mast that I have no idea what it's purpose is (see pic) The white sheaves are for the Main sail halyards, primary and spare, obviously, there's a matching pair on the other side of the mast base. These are the new ones replaced by Rig Rite. they lead aft to cockpit. The black sheave leads to the middle of the side of the boat.

can't really tell from the pictures, can you take more pics or draw a diagram?

4. I am planning to use 1/4 in. X 5/8 in. aluminum rivets to secure the mast base to the mast. ( see pic) Mast base is aluminum as well as the mast stem. Anyone see a prob. with this???

that's how they were done originally, except with SS rivets, so that won't be a problem, however you may want to use SS screws instead (there really isn't any load on that joint except for when unstepping / stepping the mast) so you can more easily remove it to access the conduit in the future. I had to cut the rivits off mine this spring to access the conduit to run new wire for the spreader lights, and I used screws when I reinstalled it so I don't have rivet problems later on...

5. I wish to place a small pennant line on the spreader. I dream of hoisting a pirate flag someday as I conquer vessels crewed by scurvy dogs and steal their rum, booty, and pretty wenches. Ok just rambling. Seriously anyone have a suggestion for the best way to secure a small sheave to the bottom the spreader??? no pic of the spreader but it's aluminum too.

A Thimbled Eye Strap screwed into the underside of the spreader with a small micro block attached will work great. Install a shroud cleat for the bottom of the line to tie off to.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|5948|311443|296535&id=735664

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|103371|311514|311524&id=172248

http://search.defender.com/?expression=shroud cleat

 

[jfmid]

use a SS cable grip. I used to use them on bundles of cable hanging 300' up from cell towers, they work great to spread the load around and don't pinch anthing, and the SS ones won't corrode
http://www.elecdirect.com/catalog/d2321b10-5a26-4a70-acb6-a076cd185e33.aspx

Ok this looks like a good idea. Gotta size it correctly for 1 16-2 and 1 coax. Not sure if I have the space to get it in above the conduit and under the mast top part. Might just end up putting a fig 8 loop in the wire as suggested above where it exits the conduit and call it a day. That should hold it up and keep tensile load off the connectors. Your idea or the fig 8 will protect them. I dont think there is that much weight from the wires hanging down a 30' conduit. Not like they will be swinging all over the place. The conduit is only 3/4 in wide.

It looks like a halyard exit, but odd that there isn't a shive inside it. Call US Spars in Florida (US division of Z Spars) and ask them, they will be able to give you a definitive answer. You can also order parts if you want to install a shive there for a spinnaker halyard exit, I think they run less than $100.
http://www.usspars.com/contactus.asp


Called these guys and they have the info. It is a spinnaker halyard exit missing the shive. They sell the assembly for a new one so it's a big win.


can't really tell from the pictures, can you take more pics or draw a diagram?


It is definately for the spinnaker halyard. It exits on a right angle to the mast and there is a cleat above it on the mast. This would run up to the "missing" spinnaker shive and allow us to fly on a run. The only thing I dont understand is how to sheet in the spinnaker but I will learn.



that's how they were done originally, except with SS rivets, so that won't be a problem, however you may want to use SS screws instead (there really isn't any load on that joint except for when unstepping / stepping the mast) so you can more easily remove it to access the conduit in the future. I had to cut the rivits off mine this spring to access the conduit to run new wire for the spreader lights, and I used screws when I reinstalled it so I don't have rivet problems later on...

I will be using Aluminum rivets as they are relatively easy to drill out should I need to do that in a couple of years. Dont expect to for a while.


A Thimbled Eye Strap screwed into the underside of the spreader with a small micro block attached will work great. Install a shroud cleat for the bottom of the line to tie off to.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|5948|311443|296535&id=735664

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|103371|311514|311524&id=172248

http://search.defender.com/?expression=shroud cleat

This is exactly what I was looking for and want to do. Bravo. Seems like a winner to me.
Thanks for your help and ideas. Really appreciate it.

 

[FourPoints]

Ok this looks like a good idea. Gotta size it correctly for 1 16-2 and 1 coax. Not sure if I have the space to get it in above the conduit and under the mast top part. Might just end up putting a fig 8 loop in the wire as suggested above where it exits the conduit and call it a day. That should hold it up and keep tensile load off the connectors. Your idea or the fig 8 will protect them. I dont think there is that much weight from the wires hanging down a 30' conduit. Not like they will be swinging all over the place. The conduit is only 3/4 in wide.

a figure 8 willl put a ugly kink and overly tight bend radius in the electricial wire, and should never be used on a VHF coax. If you need to shorten the conduit by 6" to install a hanger that would be my suggestion as it will prevent a kink in the wire / vhf, and allow a gentler bend coming out of the conduit.

However since this is in the conduit, and friction is going to take care of 90% of the weight, you could always just wrap a bunch of duct tape around the top of the wires so they wont fit back into the conduit.

 

[Morgan30]

CAYGUY: To keep your wires from slapping inside the mast, put three 7" wire ties around the wires every three feet or so. Orient each tie in a different direction and they willl keep the wire(s) away from the mast. They are flexible and therfore makes it easy to pull the wire through the mast (or back down if needed). The black ties are generally better quallity than the clear ones. Those with bigger masts can use longer ties.

^This......This is the solution for keeping the interior wires of the mast from slapping against the spar.
Perfect!

 

[FourPoints]

^This......This is the solution for keeping the interior wires of the mast from slapping against the spar.
Perfect!

unless your mast has internal conduit for wires like the OP and myself do, then it isn't necessary. I've never heard a single wire slap inside my mast...

 

[jfmid]

a figure 8 willl put a ugly kink and overly tight bend radius in the electricial wire, and should never be used on a VHF coax. If you need to shorten the conduit by 6" to install a hanger that would be my suggestion as it will prevent a kink in the wire / vhf, and allow a gentler bend coming out of the conduit.

However since this is in the conduit, and friction is going to take care of 90% of the weight, you could always just wrap a bunch of duct tape around the top of the wires so they wont fit back into the conduit.

Guess the duct tape would be the way to go.
thanks again

 

[caguy]

Thanks TheCusCus and Morgan. I was hoping to not have to pull the wires out.