Mast raising system for Macgregor

Sumner · Jul 4, 2011

I don't have exactly what you want, but if someone else is doing the same this might help as you don't need a brake winch. You use a block and tackle and the ....

....boat's...

...winches and cam cleats so that you can stop anywhere lifting or lower while by yourself to clear lines and such.

It is the stock older system...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html

It works great and stores in a relative small space,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

justsomeguy · Jul 5, 2011

Here's my iteration. Laminated the base out of 3/4 inch birch ply, cut carefully and rubber armored for a tight slip-fit around the mast profile. I turned the top of the base on my lathe to fit into the galvanized fence post about ten inches deep. The band clamp is mainly for peace of mind, as the fit to the mast is enough to hold it in place.
The spinnaker halyard ties off around the post at the top block, directly in opposition to the force from the winch.
The winch line is run up the pole, through the top block and down through a stainless eye bolt mounted on the foredeck and tied off on the foredeck cleat.
HTH. Tom

KevinC_Mac26S · Jul 5, 2011

Always love your mods. I had been wanting to do this one for sometime, but your pics have really helped me simplify the gin pole.

Thanks!

Justin_NSA · Jul 5, 2011

I don't have enough confidence in a bow cleat working in tension. I have visions of pulling a chunk out of the deck. Instead, I use the mast transport bolt in the bow pulpit to attach the forward line. The mast raising angle is better too.

If you use the old Mac block and tackle system the block could be attached to the bolt. I have the newer winch system from BWY so I just tie one end of the line to it and the other end to a bail on the mast.

justsomeguy · Jul 5, 2011

Yep, that would suck if it pulled out. It's all about force vectors. The cleat only feels tension horizontally when the winch line is routed through the eyebolt. Both cleat and eyebolt are well-backed.

Justin_NSA · Jul 5, 2011

I almost replaced my bow cleat with a padeye for the mast system. I was going to add 2 new cleats closer to the sides. So far my system is working and I seldom use it. I slip Cuivienen for the season. Talk about spoiled...but that's another topic

timebandit · Jul 5, 2011

check this thread
http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=130887

Sumner · Jul 5, 2011

Justin_NSA said:
I almost replaced my bow cleat with a padeye for the mast system. I was going to add 2 new cleats closer to the sides....

The boat only had a small piece of scrap fiberglass behind the center bow cleat and we used it for a year like that and I'll bet the previous owners used it all of those years also, but still the thought of it ripping out and the mast falling while it was going up scared me enough that when....

...I built the anchor rollers I put a larger piece of aluminum behind it under the deck. One thing is that as the mast rises it exerts less and less force on the cleat, so hopefully if something did go wrong it would be at first and it would maybe fall onto the crutch at the back of the boat.

Also I use all of the cleats, the rollers and the chocks at times...

...and have a more cleats on the cabin top, coaming sides at the middle and back of the cockpit than the boat came with and use all of those also, for the dinghy at night/underway, the preventer lines, dock lines and tying the cushions down at night. The boat is pretty cluttered up, but for me function comes before all else,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

doehunter · Jul 5, 2011

Justin_NSA said:
I don't have enough confidence in a bow cleat working in tension. I have visions of pulling a chunk out of the deck. Instead, I use the mast transport bolt in the bow pulpit to attach the forward line. The mast raising angle is better too.

If you use the old Mac block and tackle system the block could be attached to the bolt. I have the newer winch system from BWY so I just tie one end of the line to it and the other end to a bail on the mast.

I second the motion for not trusting the cheap looking plastic cleats!
I tie off to the top of bow pulpit for mast raising. I use the jib halyard, and just don't bother with a gin pole. It improves the geometry anyhow, and it takes less force when the mast is still down low.

Sumner · Jul 5, 2011

doehunter said:
..... I use the jib halyard, and just don't bother with a gin pole. It improves the geometry anyhow, and it takes less force when the mast is still down low.

Do you lift the mast some by hand at first? Maybe I'm missing something, but if you just go from the pulpit back to the top of the mast that would be a really low angle and would seem to take a lot more force since you don't have the lever arm of the jin pole.

Is the jib halyard going to a block and tackle at the pulpit? My halyard goes to the top...

...of the gin pole on one side and the block and tackle goes to the gin pole on the other. I hoisted it by hand a couple times, but being past 65 and having 3 hernia operations (2 in the last couple years) I'm past that now. I figured I just needed to slip once and I would regret for a long time not taking the extra 3-5 minutes it takes to set up the gin pole/block and tackle,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

anthony · Jul 6, 2011

I have all the bits and pieces for a mast raising system gin poleropes blocks etc, but my question is; how far up the mast do you have to go to attach the baby stays and how far off the mast base would be sufficient to attach them to the deck? I figure my mast wieghs about 60-70 lbs rigged.Ive raised and lowered it with a few friends every year and I find it scary.

Justin_NSA · Jul 6, 2011

Here's how my deck straps are installed. They need to be slightly aft of the mast according to the instructions from BWY. I think the mast connections are about 5' up.

doehunter · Jul 6, 2011

Sumner said:
Do you lift the mast some by hand at first? Maybe I'm missing something, but if you just go from the pulpit back to the top of the mast that would be a really low angle and would seem to take a lot more force since you don't have the lever arm of the jin pole.

Is the jib halyard going to a block and tackle at the pulpit? My halyard goes to the top...

...of the gin pole on one side and the block and tackle goes to the gin pole on the other. I hoisted it by hand a couple times, but being past 65 and having 3 hernia operations (2 in the last couple years) I'm past that now. I figured I just needed to slip once and I would regret for a long time not taking the extra 3-5 minutes it takes to set up the gin pole/block and tackle,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

No block and tackle.
Yea, while standing in the cockpit I lift with one hand and pull the halyard with the other. Then is when the geometry gets to where it doesn't really pull very hard on the pulpit.
I keep a semi permanent bowline on the bow pulpit. I attach it to the jib halyard, and then I go aft. The other end of the halyard goes through the hole in the cleat on the mast. I run the halyard under the cleat and aft. When I lift the mast, I pull on the halyard. There is enough friction at the cleat that I can hold on easily and reposition myself up on to the cabin, then I finish lifting.
When it's up, I cleat it off and go forward and attach the forestay.
I usually can have the mast up in the time it would have taken to go below and get my mast raising system and rig it. And I don't have to put it back.
If my shrouds don't cooperate, I can leave the mast back enough to loosen them, and cleat the halyard. It holds it just fine.
Jim

Sumner · Jul 6, 2011

anthony said:
I have all the bits and pieces for a mast raising system gin poleropes blocks etc, but my question is; how far up the mast do you have to go to attach the baby stays and how far off the mast base would be sufficient to attach them to the deck? I figure my mast wieghs about 60-70 lbs rigged.Ive raised and lowered it with a few friends every year and I find it scary.

You can see the baby stays in the above picture. They attach to the cleats on the mast 5 feet up and on the deck with eye straps that are opposite the mast step plate so that they are on the 'hinge' line of the mast as it goes up. You really need the baby stays to keep the mast stable side to side. Use what you have to set up the system and you won't be worried any more when it comes time to put the mast up by yourself. You will have complete control of the situation. Here is a link that might help if you didn't see it before.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html

This all was on our boat when we bought it. The cleats come in handy to cleat off the topping lift and the anchor sail up-haul. If you don't have those and ever add lazy-jacks they could also be used for those, but I added cleats on the mast lower down for the lazy-jacks and the single line reefing.

Jim thanks for the explanation on how you lift your mast. I have a feeling that you are younger and stronger than I am at this point in my life

. I'll have to take the 4-5 minutes it takes to rig the gin pole and block and tackle :cry:,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

timebandit · Jul 6, 2011

There once was a site with a novel approch to mast raising with out a gin pole.

It went like this--as I remember.

The hardest part of the raising is getting the mast from the crutch to part way up.

To solve this problem the owner used a garage door spring to preload the jib halyard to the point that the mast was just setting on the crutch with the mast pinned to the tabernackle.

You just lifted slighty on the mast to get it over the "hump" and the spring assisted to about 45 degrees and then you winched it up the rest of the way.

One other mast raising system was on a 22 footer with out a pulput.

The mast was carried on the trailer in the front on a pole.

After the mast was moved back and pinned the the mast holder on the trailer was then raised higher (about 6 feet) above the deck and a strap from a wench mounted on the pole was attached to the jib halyard and the mast was wenched up without a gin pole.

Just some ideas.

doehunter · Jul 6, 2011

Sumner said:
You can see the baby stays in the above picture. They attach to the cleats on the mast 5 feet up and on the deck with eye straps that are opposite the mast step plate so that they are on the 'hinge' line of the mast as it goes up. You really need the baby stays to keep the mast stable side to side. Use what you have to set up the system and you won't be worried any more when it comes time to put the mast up by yourself. You will have complete control of the situation. Here is a link that might help if you didn't see it before.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html

This all was on our boat when we bought it. The cleats come in handy to cleat off the topping lift and the anchor sail up-haul. If you don't have those and ever add lazy-jacks they could also be used for those, but I added cleats on the mast lower down for the lazy-jacks and the single line reefing.

Jim thanks for the explanation on how you lift your mast. I have a feeling that you are younger and stronger than I am at this point in my life . I'll have to take the 4-5 minutes it takes to rig the gin pole and block and tackle :cry:,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

Yep,
I'm only 53 but I'm catching up!
When I first got my boat, I raised the mast a couple of times using the supplied raising system. It was much harder to winch the mast up the 1st 10 or 15 degrees than I was expecting, and if I had to stop I was afraid to trust the jib sheeting cleat. (using the genoa sheeting winch)
I might have kept using it if I could have left the gin pole attached, but it wouldn't go vertical. It binds on the mast.
Later I tried it the other way and it seemed easier. The hardest part for me is moving from the cockpit to the cabin top and holding tension on the jib halyard at the same time. The mast itself isn't all that heavy.
But then I don't have any extras mounted on my mast yet either!
I'm sure that's coming.
BTW, how does it feel to be in the little boat after being on the new one?
I boarded a Hunter 28 one time and I couldn't believe how much bigger it really is. The small difference in length doesn't indicate just how much more boat there really is.

Sumner · Jul 6, 2011

doehunter said:
Yep,
I'm only 53 but I'm catching up!
When I first got my boat, I raised the mast a couple of times using the supplied raising system. It was much harder to winch the mast up the 1st 10 or 15 degrees than I was expecting, and if I had to stop I was afraid to trust the jib sheeting cleat. (using the genoa sheeting winch)
I might have kept using it if I could have left the gin pole attached, but it wouldn't go vertical. It binds on the mast.
Later I tried it the other way and it seemed easier. The hardest part for me is moving from the cockpit to the cabin top and holding tension on the jib halyard at the same time. The mast itself isn't all that heavy.
But then I don't have any extras mounted on my mast yet either!
I'm sure that's coming.
BTW, how does it feel to be in the little boat after being on the new one?
I boarded a Hunter 28 one time and I couldn't believe how much bigger it really is. The small difference in length doesn't indicate just how much more boat there really is.

Yep you are catching up, but I'll always be ahead :cry:.

I have a cleat on the coaming behind the winch for the preventer line on that side. I also worried about the cam cleat holding, so if I need to stop while raising I use the cam cleat, but take a couple wraps on the cleat on the coaming for peace of mind. Still I've never had a problem with the jib cam cleat not holding.

Where was the gin pole binding? Wasn't it rotating down to the deck as the mast came up?

We added the CDI Furler last year and the gin pole really helps more than ever now. I lift the furler up near the top of the gin pole and tie it there with a short piece of line. Now as the mast comes up the furler drum doesn't drag on the deck and rotates down to the deck as the mast goes vertical. Then just release the line and pin the furler/forstay and...

..snap the Johnson lever shut. Really nice. I think it would be real hard to lift the mast by hand with a furler. I can't remember if you have one or not.

We still love the Mac and have sat outside in it a couple times since we got it home. We have lots of good memories in her and I'm sure we will have more.

We have been doing a major yard make-over, but hope to be done with what we are doing the end of the week. Then I need to mount the 100 watt panel on the boat and change where the 40 watt and 60 watt are now to the other side. Then the Mac will be moved over to the side yard and stay there for some time.

The Endeavour is for sure a 'lot' bigger in every way. Can't really compare them at all. It doesn't seem like you are on a boat when down below. You can walk around and the boat is so stable it just doesn't move as you walk from side to side and in most weather/sea conditions. When it does move like on anchor in wind and waves it is a much slower movement than what we are use to with the Mac.

As soon as we put the Mac away we have lots to do/make for the new boat before going back,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

davenlynn · Jul 9, 2011

So - - - Today I installed my mast raising system on my Mac 25. I've got a gin pole (7') installed at the forward base of the mast. A double pulley at the top of the gin pole and another tied to a horn cleat at the bow, just aft of the forestay attachment point. I attached the jib halyard to the other side of the gin pole, ran it through the jib pulley and made it fast to a cleat on the mast. The gin pole was set at a 10 degree angle from the vertical to aft. I ran the working end of the block and tackle line through a couple of fairleads and back to the starboard winch. All lines were taut and clear. I cranked and cranked and nothing happened. It got to a point where I couldn't turn the winch handle any more, but the mast never moved up from the rear support crotch it was laying on. Basically I rigged it just as "Sumner" did, with baby stays 6' up from the base of the mast and 2'2" out on each side. After reading some of the replys here, I'm wondering if the mast needs to be raised to a certain angle by hand (or crook?) before the raising jig will work. Am I correct?

Signed,

Stymied in San Diego
(Dave)

doehunter · Jul 9, 2011

Sumner said:
Yep you are catching up, but I'll always be ahead :cry:.

I have a cleat on the coaming behind the winch for the preventer line on that side. I also worried about the cam cleat holding, so if I need to stop while raising I use the cam cleat, but take a couple wraps on the cleat on the coaming for peace of mind. Still I've never had a problem with the jib cam cleat not holding.

Where was the gin pole binding? Wasn't it rotating down to the deck as the mast came up?

We added the CDI Furler last year and the gin pole really helps more than ever now. I lift the furler up near the top of the gin pole and tie it there with a short piece of line. Now as the mast comes up the furler drum doesn't drag on the deck and rotates down to the deck as the mast goes vertical. Then just release the line and pin the furler/forstay and...

..snap the Johnson lever shut. Really nice. I think it would be real hard to lift the mast by hand with a furler. I can't remember if you have one or not.

We still love the Mac and have sat outside in it a couple times since we got it home. We have lots of good memories in her and I'm sure we will have more.

We have been doing a major yard make-over, but hope to be done with what we are doing the end of the week. Then I need to mount the 100 watt panel on the boat and change where the 40 watt and 60 watt are now to the other side. Then the Mac will be moved over to the side yard and stay there for some time.

The Endeavour is for sure a 'lot' bigger in every way. Can't really compare them at all. It doesn't seem like you are on a boat when down below. You can walk around and the boat is so stable it just doesn't move as you walk from side to side and in most weather/sea conditions. When it does move like on anchor in wind and waves it is a much slower movement than what we are use to with the Mac.

As soon as we put the Mac away we have lots to do/make for the new boat before going back,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

The gin pole works fine during mast raising. It starts out vertical when the mast is down, and is near the deck when the mast is up. The problem is after I raise the mast, I would like to lay it up against the mast, but it binds on the mast base when it's still a few degrees out. I considered two ways I think I could get it to go, but before I tried anything, I found I could raise without it. I could waller out the bolt holes or dent it at the end maybe.
I don't have roller furling yet. It might be a while before I get the funding for that. Heck I just got the boat paid for! Actually I'm wanting to get a new main sorta like yours. It reminds me of my Hobie main. Full battens and loose footed, It makes a nice shape. Mine is the original '93 main, and it's stretched a good bit.
Jim
I attached a pic of my mast step. I don't know if it's different or not.
Oops,
I just looked at a pic of your mast step and they are different. Mine is actually a hinge and it looks like there isn't as much room for the gin pole to mount as on yours.

Mast raising system for Macgregor

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