Joker valve backup

[Roger Long]

I wonder if this would be a good answer for the problem of water closet lines back flooding into the bowl. Despite dry flushing and a short straight run, I still have enough drain back down off the wall of the hose to be objectionable at times when the joker has a bit of "fluff" in it.

http://www.trapguard.com/

I'm sure it shouldn't be used as a replacement for the joker valve but seems that it would work if put in just after. It fits in a 2" PVC pipe so a couple of Sealand adapters and reducers with a short length of pipe should do the trick.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Noooo...it wouldn't...

It's just something else in the line to collect "fluff" and create a clog. Quit trying to over-engineer a system that's actually very simple, Rog! :naughty:

We've talked about backflow before.... You say you're using the dry mode...you need to learn how to use it correctly. For starters, I suspect you aren't pumping long enough in the dry mode. There shouldn't BE any "fluff" in the joker valve, which means you aren't rinsing either.

Flushing a manual toilet 101

For urine only: pump once in the wet mode ahead of use...then use the dry mode to push the bowl contents over the top of the loop...switch to wet for a couple of strokes to bring in some rinse water...and back to dry to push THAT over the top of the loop.

For solids and/or any TP: use a cup to add at least pint of water from the sink to the bowl ahead of use. Use the dry mode to push the bowl contents over the top of the loop...switch to wet for a couple of strokes to bring in some rinse water...and back to dry to push THAT over the top of the loop. That will greatly reduce "skid marks," requiring a LOT less flush water to rinse out the bowl and the joker valve, which means you don't fill up your holding tank with flush water.

It should also leave less than a cupful to run back into the bowl...and that much should only SEEP back into the bowl...if it RUNS back in, it's because it's been a lot longer than a year since you've replaced the joker valve.

 

[Roger Long]

For solids and/or any TP:...

Ah, maybe that's it. I've been wet pumping just enough to get stuff over the top and then switching to dry. Sounds like the dry pumping works best when there's something to mixed in with the water to give it some body. Trying to dry pump liquid only just makes bubbles.

I don't have any run back, just slow seepage. It's mostly annoying when I come back to the boat and find that stuff has seeped and "aged".

I'll give a try and get back to you. Or, maybe not. Shortly after I have a chance to try it, I'll be going off the grid pretty much for good.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Trying to dry pump liquid only just makes bubbles.

It shouldn't...any manual toilet that's working anywhere near factory specs should be able to move bowl contents including liquid only up to 6 linear feet or 4 vertical feet. If your toilet can't, it's another indication that it's time to replace the joker valve....or maybe the whole toilet!

Shortly after I have a chance to try it, I'll be going off the grid pretty much for good.

You're leaving us??? Where are you off to?

 

[Roger Long]

.any manual toilet that's working anywhere near factory specs should be able to move bowl contents including liquid only up to 6 linear feet or 4 vertical feet.

I was probably overstating. The bulk of the liquid does move over the loop. The amount that has been seeping back is very small, maybe only a few teaspoons, about what I would expect just from the sides of the hose remaining wet. However, it's enough to let bacterial grow in the bowl when the boat hasn't been used for a few days. That problem should actually solve itself shortly after launch this spring which brings me to the next question.

You're leaving us??? Where are you off to?

Everywhere I feel like going.

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/2011CruisingPlans.htm

 

[Rick D]

Along The Same Lines, Peggy...

...I replaced my (Jabsco) pumps this season and found the one that has 80% more use was pretty clogged in the joker valve chamber with calcium after two years (one on the valve). It had, not surprisingly, become a bit difficult to pump. Anyhow, I'd never noticed it having that much build up before. I normally rinse out both heads with two cups fresh water and flush dry before departing, and then top it off with a couple of squirts of CP. I thought the CP would retard the calcium build up, but it evidently isn't enough. I suspect I need to run some vinegar in addition to the fresh water final flush. Do you agree? So, I assume vinegar is OK to use with KO, Odorous & CP?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

C.P. doesn't do anything for mineral buildup...that requires acid, C.P. is bio-enzymatic...not acidic.

I suspect I need to run some vinegar in addition to the fresh water final flush. Do you agree?

Yep...be sure it's distilled white vinegar, not cider or any other type. Use is AFTER you've rinsed out the system (the 1/3 of it that you CAN rinse out by only pouring water into the bowl). Do NOT leave vinegar sitting in the bowl unless you want replace the joker valve.

So, I assume vinegar is OK to use with KO, Odorous & CP?

Yep...it is.

Why don't you just reroute the head intake line to tee it into the head sink discharge line so you can rinse out the WHOLE system and put white vinegar through the whole system instead of only being able to rinse out the bottom part of the pump and the head discharge line?

And btw...you've always said that when your cost of replacing Jabsco pumps hit $1000, you'd switch to a better quality toilet....is this FINALLY the year?

 

[Rick D]

And btw...you've always said that when your cost of replacing Jabsco pumps hit $1000, you'd switch to a better quality toilet....is this FINALLY the year?

Oh yea, I'm well over $1K in the aft head but only half in the forward ;-)) So, you have me dead to rights on this. That means I have to change them out or do a 'guilty dog' and hide out on the forum from you. However, I'll bet I have the most expensive well-functioning Jabsco manuals on the site.

There is no reason for the fresh water intake. Our heads get used enough that there is no odor from the intake and it stays pretty fresh. I rinse some vinegar through the intake periodically.

You know, of course, my aft Jabsco only has the bowl original?

 

[SailArkansas]

It's just something else in the line to collect "fluff" and create a clog. Quit trying to over-engineer a system that's actually very simple, Rog! :naughty:

We've talked about backflow before.... You say you're using the dry mode...you need to learn how to use it correctly. For starters, I suspect you aren't pumping long enough in the dry mode. There shouldn't BE any "fluff" in the joker valve, which means you aren't rinsing either.

Flushing a manual toilet 101

For urine only: pump once in the wet mode ahead of use...then use the dry mode to push the bowl contents over the top of the loop...switch to wet for a couple of strokes to bring in some rinse water...and back to dry to push THAT over the top of the loop.

For solids and/or any TP: use a cup to add at least pint of water from the sink to the bowl ahead of use. Use the dry mode to push the bowl contents over the top of the loop...switch to wet for a couple of strokes to bring in some rinse water...and back to dry to push THAT over the top of the loop. That will greatly reduce "skid marks," requiring a LOT less flush water to rinse out the bowl and the joker valve, which means you don't fill up your holding tank with flush water.

It should also leave less than a cupful to run back into the bowl...and that much should only SEEP back into the bowl...if it RUNS back in, it's because it's been a lot longer than a year since you've replaced the joker valve.

Dear Mistress

You wrote sometime back that the loop can be removed if there is no hose drom the Y to the thru-hull. I believe you stated that the output hose on the pump can run directly to the tank. I am contemplating doing this to eliminate my backflow/joker valve problem. My entire system is 2 years old and I have the seepage problem. If I eliminate the loop, then how does that impact your flushing instructions. Thank you ole wise one!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Oh yea, I'm well over $1K in the aft head but only half in the forward ;-)) So, you have me dead to rights on this. That means I have to change them out or do a 'guilty dog' and hide out on the forum from you.

You just hoped I'd forgotten about it. But I didn't, and you're an honorable man... so we'll expect to see an announcement soon that you've ordered a PHII or PHC conversion from sbo.com. :dance:

sbo.com PHII PHC LBA

You know, of course, my aft Jabsco only has the bowl original?

I do know...and by now that has to be true of the forward head too. That's been my point--that you're the only person I know who'd spend upwards of $1k over 10 years for replacement parts (pumps in your case) for a $100 toilet.

A PHII/PHC conversion, otoh, will cost you about $250, but you'll only have to spend about $50 every 5-6 years to keep it working beautifully for 20 years or even longer.

And I have -0 doubt that once you discover how much better it works, you'll swap out the forward head for another one instead of spending one more dime for another Jabsco pump! You'll be thrilled to know that you get to keep your Jabsco bowls, though...or maybe you should have 'em bronzed. You've spent enough for 'em!

 

[Rick D]

"A PHII/PHC conversion, otoh, will cost you about $250, but you'll only have to spend about $50 every 5-6 years to keep it working beautifully for 20 years or even longer."

Yea, and I knew that ten years ago too. So, at the first pump failure or before next season, whichever comes first, I'll change out, and it will be both since I don't want crew to sort through two different head pump protocols! Of course, the pump will last 20 years, but that's way longer than me; but the hassle factor is still way worth it.

 

[windward54]

Rick, why bother with the heads. You'll never teach Sailor the Dog to use one anyway.

 

[Rick D]

Yea, But I Can Keep Trying!

Rick, why bother with the heads. You'll never teach Sailor the Dog to use one anyway.

Marlyn says the same about the guys after a race. She doesn't understand how they can stand in front of the head and never hit the bowl! However, I always make sure the boat is clean as a pin after a race anymore. She comes in with her eyes darting and nose twitching, so it has to be right.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Marlyn says the same about the guys after a race. She doesn't understand how they can stand in front of the head and never hit the bowl!

She should be questioning WHY they insist on standing on a moving boat. You can even buy a sign to hang in the head that says "Gentlemen Please Be Seated While Underway." Only those who have an overload of testosterone would object to doing so once they've seen the mess they make while standing.