Excellent essay on boat size - a must read.
- Thread starter Roger Long
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Some have questiond the worth of this post. I think I can give one answere to that question, 3 pages of discussion in just 5 days.
I can also agree with some of the replys that suggest concern in that in todays market bigger is seen as better, for no other reason than," bigger is better". As a "small" boat owner I am concerned that under todays trend in thinking, my boat could be deemed unsafe simply because of its size.
I can also agree with some of the replys that suggest concern in that in todays market bigger is seen as better, for no other reason than," bigger is better". As a "small" boat owner I am concerned that under todays trend in thinking, my boat could be deemed unsafe simply because of its size.
Here's another 2 cents worth of free opinion.
In my opinion the ONLY consideration as to the "fit" of any vessel is how well can you and do you handle your particular boat? I learned on a Cat 36 and have gone up and down in boat size a few times since then and have settled into an Irwin 25 now. Do I feel less secure in the 25 versus the 36? Not at all. Can the 25 sail the same waters as the 36? Absolutely. Invest the time and effort to learn how to sail YOUR boat. Anybody can give you an opinion and tell you what they think. But since they are probably not with you when you sail it will always remain an opinion. As far as the "status" goes; my boat is my boat. Bigger is not always better or safer and smaller is not always less prestigious and more dangerous. I'd take Jack Sparrow in a racing dinghy over my brother-in-law in an H54 anyday.
In my opinion the ONLY consideration as to the "fit" of any vessel is how well can you and do you handle your particular boat? I learned on a Cat 36 and have gone up and down in boat size a few times since then and have settled into an Irwin 25 now. Do I feel less secure in the 25 versus the 36? Not at all. Can the 25 sail the same waters as the 36? Absolutely. Invest the time and effort to learn how to sail YOUR boat. Anybody can give you an opinion and tell you what they think. But since they are probably not with you when you sail it will always remain an opinion. As far as the "status" goes; my boat is my boat. Bigger is not always better or safer and smaller is not always less prestigious and more dangerous. I'd take Jack Sparrow in a racing dinghy over my brother-in-law in an H54 anyday.
SD took the time to type a good, well thought out, blog post. Blogs are a good place both information and personal opinions. I agree with much of what he said and accept the rest as his opinion. I apriciate anyone who takes the time to post well reasoned opinion in a blog; it's a lot of work.
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 806
Everything is a tradeoff
The writer of the blog makes some good points. Not sure why smaller boats need defending - nontheless, he makes a good case in their defense. Some of the benefits of experience in smaller boats are undisputable. I firmly believe that you really learn to sail in smaller boats. My father and I learned in Snipes, 15 1/2 foot racing dinghy, not at all difficult to knock down. You learn the feel of sailing from that, not from sailing yachts. You learn how to avoid situations you don't want to get into with a sailing yacht, and how to get out of them. Dad boats moved to a Seafarer 24, then progressed in stages in various Paceships, Contessas, Catalinas, and finally a Camper and Nicholson 35, and I count as a blessing the opportunity I had to experience them with him. Dad ultimately lived aboard a 32' for 10 years - 5 years in Europe, then the ocean passage to Barbados, and the last 5 years in Florida.
We all are more than a little nervous around the guy who buys a big boat and doesn't have the experience to handle it. On the other hand, boats of any size make me nervous in the confines of a marina, when they either don't have any concept of the forces acting on a large sailing yacht in close confines, or just don't care. Sometimes makes me wonder if they pull onto the tracks in front of even a slow moving freight train, and expect it to stop or otherwise avoid them. They simply don't understand that in the close confines of a marina, the large yacht skipper simply has to constantly judge the current, wind, depth room to maneuver, and other traffic, and can't simply turn or stop on a dime, or hold out a hand (heaven forbid!) or a boat pole to fend off a dock or another boat. Hopefully, the skipper understands those dynamics and keeps his options open at all times, and the vessel under control.
The writer also makes some very good points about the economics of boat size. Pretty much every cost goes up nearly exponentially with size, and so does the work load, under sail or for maintenance.
There is also another perspective that the writer does not address. Sailors are not all alike. Some like to take the boat out just to sail it around for an hour or so. Others like to cruise for the day or the weekend. For some, sailing provides something other than the experience of sailing for the sake of sailing - it is both the ends and the means. Sailing offers a challenging, liberating, inspiring and satisfying way of life for extended cruising. Regardless of the size, sailors have lived aboard and cruised the world in boats from 23' on up for decades. Some are perfectly happy with the bare minimum of a spartan environment, and simply enjoy being as close to nature as possible and still survive. Others might prefer more comforts, but don't have the means to support them. There are still others who may feel that some of those comforts do not have to be sacrificed, simply because they cruise under sail. Maybe they, too, have to make tradeoffs, maybe not. Maybe they have to choose between owning a home and owning a yacht.
The common thread in the most insightful posts I've seen is that the sailor needs to develop the skills and experience to handle the vessel they sail, regardless of the size. And that includes all weather and circumstances. None are either right or wrong based solely on the size of the boat they are sailing.
But, I do agree - you learn to sail in small sailboats!
The writer of the blog makes some good points. Not sure why smaller boats need defending - nontheless, he makes a good case in their defense. Some of the benefits of experience in smaller boats are undisputable. I firmly believe that you really learn to sail in smaller boats. My father and I learned in Snipes, 15 1/2 foot racing dinghy, not at all difficult to knock down. You learn the feel of sailing from that, not from sailing yachts. You learn how to avoid situations you don't want to get into with a sailing yacht, and how to get out of them. Dad boats moved to a Seafarer 24, then progressed in stages in various Paceships, Contessas, Catalinas, and finally a Camper and Nicholson 35, and I count as a blessing the opportunity I had to experience them with him. Dad ultimately lived aboard a 32' for 10 years - 5 years in Europe, then the ocean passage to Barbados, and the last 5 years in Florida.
We all are more than a little nervous around the guy who buys a big boat and doesn't have the experience to handle it. On the other hand, boats of any size make me nervous in the confines of a marina, when they either don't have any concept of the forces acting on a large sailing yacht in close confines, or just don't care. Sometimes makes me wonder if they pull onto the tracks in front of even a slow moving freight train, and expect it to stop or otherwise avoid them. They simply don't understand that in the close confines of a marina, the large yacht skipper simply has to constantly judge the current, wind, depth room to maneuver, and other traffic, and can't simply turn or stop on a dime, or hold out a hand (heaven forbid!) or a boat pole to fend off a dock or another boat. Hopefully, the skipper understands those dynamics and keeps his options open at all times, and the vessel under control.
The writer also makes some very good points about the economics of boat size. Pretty much every cost goes up nearly exponentially with size, and so does the work load, under sail or for maintenance.
There is also another perspective that the writer does not address. Sailors are not all alike. Some like to take the boat out just to sail it around for an hour or so. Others like to cruise for the day or the weekend. For some, sailing provides something other than the experience of sailing for the sake of sailing - it is both the ends and the means. Sailing offers a challenging, liberating, inspiring and satisfying way of life for extended cruising. Regardless of the size, sailors have lived aboard and cruised the world in boats from 23' on up for decades. Some are perfectly happy with the bare minimum of a spartan environment, and simply enjoy being as close to nature as possible and still survive. Others might prefer more comforts, but don't have the means to support them. There are still others who may feel that some of those comforts do not have to be sacrificed, simply because they cruise under sail. Maybe they, too, have to make tradeoffs, maybe not. Maybe they have to choose between owning a home and owning a yacht.
The common thread in the most insightful posts I've seen is that the sailor needs to develop the skills and experience to handle the vessel they sail, regardless of the size. And that includes all weather and circumstances. None are either right or wrong based solely on the size of the boat they are sailing.
But, I do agree - you learn to sail in small sailboats!
Regarding ideal boat size vs seamanship: Our first sailboat boat was a 12 foot Kite, fun but very limited. Second boat was an O'Day 20 which we had for 8 years, lot's of fun, many offshore adventures to the Channel islands which in hind sight, were insane to attempt. Our current boat is a Hunter 450 which we live aboard and sail 3-4 months per year; singlehanded sailing is no problem, I do it all the time. The next boat will be a Tayana 64 hopefully, within 2 years.
Bigger is better... anyone who says otherwise is either uninformed or offering up some sour grapes.
Bigger is better... anyone who says otherwise is either uninformed or offering up some sour grapes.
definitive
Please don't run for a position of power, I can just see the wreckers showing up at my dock to save me from my insanity.
Sorry did not mean to be so narrow minded. Good thing they didn't catch me off the Coast of Oregon on my 21 footer.
There you have it sailors, end of discussion.
Please don't run for a position of power, I can just see the wreckers showing up at my dock to save me from my insanity.
Sorry did not mean to be so narrow minded. Good thing they didn't catch me off the Coast of Oregon on my 21 footer.
I thought that was a myth?
Bigger is better...
Sometimes I'm sure it is. Reading Buckley's books about sailing across the Pacific and drinking wine makes a nice 75 sound like a fun time. On the other hand sailing around in 2 feet of water to the outer banks in a dinghy is a blast. Try doing that in a Tayana 64.
Bigger is better...
Sometimes I'm sure it is. Reading Buckley's books about sailing across the Pacific and drinking wine makes a nice 75 sound like a fun time. On the other hand sailing around in 2 feet of water to the outer banks in a dinghy is a blast. Try doing that in a Tayana 64.
I love all sizes and kinds of sail boats! Different tools for different jobs. But a boat like a Tanaya 64 would make me feel like I was in prison in sw Florida. The bad news is you would be severly constrained by draft. The good news is you wouldn't even know some of the sweet little island anchorages you were missing. You would be bumping bottom so far out, their view might be hidden by the curvature of the earth!
Channel Islands
Fair winds from the U.S.
Putting the size issue aside I would like to hear some of your stories about sailing out to the islands and if you have ever saild all the way across the channel to France. I have read some of the logs from the Crabber site about folks taking their boats out to the islands and on to the French canals. Nice reading
Fair winds from the U.S.
As I'm sitting in front of the fire this cold morning reading the latest copy of Latitudes and Attitudes "Seafaring edition" I read a good article titled "think small DREAM BIG" which isn't only about small boats it's about creative lower cost alternatives to getting out sooner. One guy traded down to a stripped down 50 foot ferro cement boat along with using non-marine paints and finishes to lower cost. Since this was a recent hot topic I thought I'd point out the article. Someone has to be sailing somewhere warm....
No kidding. I'm amazed by the places my 27-footer would go that my 32-footer won't, all because of 5' more stick and a 3.5' draft. I also miss my beach cat and wish I had the time and money for all three. There is simply no way I'm believing that bigger boats are more fun to day sail; they are not.
Don't tell my wife, but I'm secretly looking for a beach cat again.
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