Excellent essay on boat size - a must read.

[RON20406]

Statement: In the Middle Ages, wealthy Europeans sent their sons on a "gentleman's tour" of Europe to gain experience and worldliness before they were to begin their professional lives.
Response: If you send a chimpanzee to Europe for a year, he still remains a chimp when he returns.
Fact: All things being equal, it's always the sailor, not the boat. Best, Ron

 

[Ray Bowles]

While the articule does express certain biasis I think he makes a point that small boats as a whole get used more than larger boats. Persons on sites such as this do sail more often than other boat owners in both small and large boats.
We have lived aboard a late model Island Packet 38 and sailed the SE coast, Gulf and Keys for almost 3 years. We have sailed fresh water on 3 boats from 22 to 26 feet. Personally I have found that smaller boats as a whole are sailed quite a bit more that larger boats as they require much less time prepairing to sail and way less time to put away after the outing. This speaks less about the skills of the individual and more about the effort required to sail.
My experence is that smaller boats are sailed more times in poor working condition vs. larger boats as they aren't out in conditions where masts break etc. Small boats have a MUCH higher rate of life jacket use.
Possibly, and that means only "possibly", small boat skippers learn faster the skills and techniques used in sailing simply because they tend to be on the water more as their boats are easly set up and cleaned up.
A "good sailor" is a good sailor only because he or she has the passion and love for the sport to spend the time on the water becomming good. Not boat size.
Ray

 

[jibes138]

Personally I don't see any point to the article. The broad range of boat types classified as small boats would preclude any conclusions regarding small versus large comparisons. It all depends on intended use. If you want to go fast a planing hull with hiking straps, if you want cruising, another boat type, if you want blue water, etc. Sailing is an activity and/or a sport. I personally sail in large boats, medium size boats, small boats, and am even considering a windsurfer but might be too creaky to handle it. All of them are a blast to sail, so it is a love of sailing not the size of the boat that matters. Sailing a sunfish in 15 knots of wind is awesome. Sailing a 40 footer in 15 knots of wind is also awesome. Sailing a Catalina 25 in 15 knots of wind at night under a full moon is also awesome. So log off the computer and go sailing.

 

[Buck420]

http://networkedblogs.com/avYRv

As a result of reading Mr. Sailingdog's essay (and it's attendant responses), ... and as an evil, rich, owner of a >40' sailboat ...
I have decided to use a tiny bit of my vast wealth to purchase a satellite telephone.
Why, (you may ask)?
So that, the next time I am offshore (on my evil 42' sailboat), and the weather turns nasty, ... and I ( after 30 years of sailing) become terrified and cannot figure out what to do or how to do it, ... I can call any small boat sailor who will (hopefully) quickly impart unto me some of his vast seamanship knowledge, thereby enabling me to do all the right things, vanquish the evil elements, and have all my fears and anxieties go "by-by".
After the tempest has passed, and I have stowed or restowed my warpes, drouges, stormsails, trisails, life-raft, EPIRBs, jacklines, tethers, etc. etc., and I have a brief moment, I can then use the satellite phone to (maybe) trade a few option contracts. With the resulting evil trading profits, I will then be able to purchase an even larger sailboat, and crew it with small boat sailors, any of whom, with their ever present innate seamanship skills ( that Mr Sailingdog assures us, they all have, ..far more so than any larger boat sailor), will know exactly what to do and how how to keep this new yacht always cruising in a warm and comfy (but always seaman-like) manner for ever and ever, ... a-men.

 

[Ross]

As will always be, there are some who find reason to fault a thoughtful essay concerning the current trend in boat sizes. I have worked in houses that were built in the early 1800's and were considered to be mansions because of their size and elegance. Todays market for new houses produces entire subdivsions of even larger homes that house but two or three people. Bigger is fine but it isn't justified but many of the arguments used today. We have all heard all of the reasons that people give for any choice that they make from the beer that they drink to the cars they drive and the boats they sail and it all comes down to personel preference and has very little basis in objective anaylis of the purpose and the suitability of the product.
When the hunting bow and the sling were used for hunting and in war some groups perfered one over the other and some armies left the choice up the individual solder. Both are equally effective in the hands of a skilled user.
Oceans have been crossed on everything from rafts to very large ships built of steel and both types of vessels have been known to fail and kill people.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Time for a new title

A more appropriate title - "Personal preference differs". An epiphany

 

[COOL]

it all comes down to personal preference and has very little basis in objective analysis of the purpose and the suitability of the product.

You make a lot of points that I agree with.
I think very many people select cars, homes, and boats
that are truly inappropriate for their actual needs.
There are thousands of large trucks and 4X4s on the
road that will never haul a load, or leave city streets.
Many people live in homes that are much larger than is needed.
There are many ways to go sailing, and to each his own.
But I have seen many people that have made poor choices
when purchasing boats. Many people have bought boats that
they can not afford to properly maintain, because they are too big.
Others own heavy, slow, unmaneuverable 'Blue Water' capable
boats when their only intention is to daysail.

 

[jibes138]

Ross - Not sure I understand??

Is a large beer better than a small beer?:dance:

I read a great book once. They asked a millionaire what kind of beer he liked. The answer : Free or Budweiser in that order.

So if I take that and apply it to sailboats, "What is the best sailboat?" A free one.

 

[Prime Time]

Size may not matter?

Just for grins and giggles, I compared the cape dory 27 to the cape dory 40 on the sail boat calculator. This is what I found:

The capsize ratios were
1.74 and 1.73 respectively

Motion Comfort numbers were
30.08 and 34.33

Displacement to LWL
419 vs. 322

Hard to give the 40 footer any safety advantage just based on size if that is the only variable.

 

[JerryA]

I'm pretty happy sailing my little boat, but I wouldn't mind trying out as an evil big boat owner someday.

JerryA

 

[Ross]

I'm pretty happy sailing my little boat, but I wouldn't mind trying out as an evil big boat owner someday.

JerryA

Kinda like trying to choke a cat with cream?

 

[Ray Bowles]

Any boat that isn't used is -?- regardless of it's size. Wow, choked that cat with an epiphany. Didn't have any cream. What is the point?

 

[Ross]

There are more ways to kill a cat than choking him with cream. But most of them will make you sick.

 

[mark_swart]

Small is also relative to what you are on right now!!
I recently switched from a 34 to a 28. I'm just a weekender/racer, but the 34 wasn't fun to singlehand. Not fun to fend off of pilings. My wife and kids were afraid of the helm and couldn't muscle in the sheets or raise the sail. For me the extra size inside just wasn't worth it, and I got lucky to find a 28 that still had all of the important features inside that our 34 had.
I see plenty of 'smaller' boats that never get used either, so to say a smaller boat gets sailed more might not be accurate. But a smaller boat is definitely easier to sail more.
I'm not a reverse snob and more power to all of you with those big beautiful boats. I'd love to come aboard take the tour and have some boat drinks. But through trial and error I have found what fits my needs, at least for what I use the boat for.
But if I was living aboard or trying to cross oceans, I probably wouldn't want to do it on a 28 footer.
And I absolutely agree that people should start out on smaller (27 or less) boats. Going out and buying a 30 + foot boat as a starter is a recipe for disaster. The consequences are too high when you screw up.

 

[Gudenuph]

We also have down-sized, to an O'Day 25 and find it much better for our needs even though the motion is a little quicker. The motion is not too bad at all and serves as involuntary exercize which is a good thing. Hull form has a lot to do with the motion. Back in the '60s we had a Ed Monk design, 25 foot, hard chine, double ender that while a bit tender, had the smooth motion of a much larger boat.
Just like the big house, been there, done that...and don't want to go back.
Geohan

 

[higgs]

I think the important issue is, as the essay points out, there is a growing attitude that if one is going offshore one needs a 40 footer. We see it here with questions if going offshore in a 30 footer is safe.

Similarly, we see many who feel radar or chart plotters are necessary equipment for the serious cruiser. Listening to those individuals, one begins to believe it takes a lot of money to go offshore. It is easy to forget that, in the past, offshore sailors have safely made passages w/o 40 footers and fancy electronics.

I remember a discussion with a boater who was putting off his Lake Michigan crossing because his GPS was not working properly. His power boat made the 70 mile trip a 3 hour event. I told him just head east (from WI) until he hits land and then turn either left or right and follow the coast until he finds a harbor. Simple enough, but some people need to have all the uncertainty taken out.

 

[fox islander]

Interesting article...I agree with the observation that the larger the boat. the more likely it is to sit at the dock. definately the case at my marina.

 

[BobM]

Sailingdog's blog is thoughtful, but I think it misses what I consider the best piece of advice. Buy a boat for what you do 90% of the time. A boat that is suitable for daysailing in light air is different for most than a boat that is used primarily for coastal cruises. Do I think that many have succumbed to the bigger is better philosophy? Perhaps. I have a friend who moved from a Catalina 30 to a Hunter 37 to do coastal cruising. He got a great deal on the new boat...and is miserable...he has a young Son and watching him has meant that he essentially single hands the boat and the bigger boat has him spooked as he has had a number of maintenance problems. He would have been much better off keeping the Catalina in my opinion.

My 30 footer has some features I prize. Being able to pee standing up and walk through the cabin standing up is a wonderful thing. At the same time I can single hand her and do so with much greater confidence than my old 25 footer because of her increased size and stability. However, I don't think I will move up soon. My Wife isn't a big fan of sailing so I primarily daysail and will extend that to some weekend cruises up and down the coast next year. I'd love to have a Hobie Cat to play on though

 

[bffatcat]

time for my 2c

I had a pearson 10m for 15 years I liked the boat it suited my needs at the time. I now own a pearson 26W Ive had it for 10 years it suited my needs it still does. but unfortunately at 37
years old its getting shabby. I would like to buy a new 26 footer. Now I dont mean a water ballast or shallow draft boat. Or a very light boat. I cannot find a solidly built new 26 ft boat.
There is nothing out there for me. As previously stated in this thread, Its about $ and apparently there just isnt enough profit in a boat of that size. If I could buy an new Pearson 26w I would but unfortunately I cant.

 

[Ross]

I had a pearson 10m for 15 years I liked the boat it suited my needs at the time. I now own a pearson 26W Ive had it for 10 years it suited my needs it still does. but unfortunately at 37
years old its getting shabby. I would like to buy a new 26 footer. Now I dont mean a water ballast or shallow draft boat. Or a very light boat. I cannot find a solidly built new 26 ft boat.
There is nothing out there for me. As previously stated in this thread, Its about $ and apparently there just isnt enough profit in a boat of that size. If I could buy an new Pearson 26w I would but unfortunately I cant.

A question for the ages. What would it take to bring your present boat up to the standards that would make it desireable to keep for another twenty years?
What is the difference in the present value of your current boat and the cost of a new boat?