What Raymarine wheel autopilot are you using?

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

I am thinking of replacing my ST4000+ wheel autopilot with an SPX5 or probably one of the much more expensive below the deck ones. The ST4000+ so far is simply OK (but needs continues attention as it looses the course at times) but gradually I am making longer and longer trips with the family (basically single handed) so I must depend more on the pilot.

I would like to here from those using an ST4000+ or S1 or SPX5 wheel pilot:
- on what vessel (displacement, fin type or long keel and length of boat) they use it, and
- if they are happy with their performance

Also any particular comments (good or bad) on the SPX5 that uses the course computer in addition to the other units. The SPX5 does not need the rudder sensor but I already have one fitted. Will this add anything to its performance?

Thanks

 

[kloudie1]

Philip, Have you installed a rudder reference transducer on your ST 4000+ ? I have a 4000+ on my H 34 and it was unstable until I installed the rudder reference unit. It could hold course for a while but in rough seas, couldn’t handle holding a course. No amount of messing with the tuning constants would make it drive as I thought it should. Now that I have the reference installed, it works very well.. holding a course in waves or calm, sailing or motoring.. The owners manual says that one is not necessary but on boats with fast steering (less than 2 turns lock-to-lock) the pilot cannot cope.. You might want to install one of these if it is not already there..
http://www.priceinsanity.com/servlet/the-1105973/RAYMARINE-E15022-ROTARY-RUDDER/Detail
Ya can probably find one cheaper than these guys but just wanted to show a picture.

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

Yes I do have a sensor with my ST4000+ (by the way it's the old wheel with the black ring). As I said it performs OK, either sailing or motor sailing. Usual problem is to loose course on a run or broad reach especially when there are even small waves but I really don't feel very confident with the unit. Upwind, even in moderate conditions, perfoms quite well especially when I change response to 2.
I am just wondering whether SPX5 is much better, if the sensor (since I have it) will make an SPX5 even better or whether nothing really can be compared with a "proper" below deck unit.
Also I am not sure whether the Beneteau 361 (displacement around 6.000kg / 13.000 lbs, add to this another 20% according to Raymarine) is at the higher limit for this pilot.

 

[Rick]

Your boat is borderline for a wheel pilot so if I had money like Obama thinks I do, I would get a hydraulic pilot. Or another option for you is to upgrade to the Raymarine MKII wheel pilot. Its compatable with your ST4000+. I have been very happy with it. It drives the boat for 12 to 14 hours on trips to Catalina with no problems. About 450 bucks

Cheers

Woops, my boat is a H336. About 14000 with booze aboard!

 

[higgs]

I have the ST 6000 which I am quite happy with. It is a below deck instalation and works well even in beam or quartering seas when there is a lot of roll. I did have some issues for a while, but, after much wrangling, Ray came through despite the fact my unit was out of warranty. If you have the money to spend, I would definitely go below decks. Much stronger response than wheel units.

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

Or another option for you is to upgrade to the Raymarine MKII wheel pilot. Its compatable with your ST4000+. !

This is the unit I have and I think it's already a MKII pilot. Or am I wrong?

 

[kloudie1]

Yes, Philip, that back ring drive unit is the same one I have. I think the Mk II has the bigger spoke saddles and a slightly different engagement lever.. May be gray vs black.. My boat is listed as 11800 # so I am a bit lighter, but only a bit..sort of at the top end of the Raymarine recommendation. Higgs is correct, the below decks stuff is awfully good but MAN is it expensive.. Several of my buddies have below-deck pilots .. I found the hydraulic ones to consume a LOT of battery power, much more than the linear or rotary electric drives, especially in waves. I fought with my 4000+ for a couple of years trying to get the response and auto trim and rudder gain to make it work but was unsuccessful. I talked to Raymarine and they said that the rudder sensor would probably help.. I have had it on now for two years and it made a world of difference. As an example, last week I was under jib alone making about 6-6.5 knots, in about 15-20 knots of wind on the beam. Waves in the lake were about 4 feet of fairly steep chop, on the beam. Monsieur Otto (the autopilot) was holding a great average course with the boat heading varying by about 10-15 degrees on either side of the desired course .. better than most helmspersons can consistently steer in those conditions.. this was a three hour run, with no course changes. My unit is installed with ten gauge power feed wire to make sure that the drive motor gets all the juice it needs.
Ya can’t go wrong with a good, well installed below deck unit.. so if your patience and wallet let ya do that, it is a better solution than a wheel pilot.

 

[Blitz]

Do some of you have pictures of your install - pictures of wires up the pedestal, etc ??

If you use the Ray Marine Autopilot system builder it always directs you to the below deck unit (used 34' Length in my case), while if you talk to Ray Marine they indicate an above deck one is more than adequate (my case is 11,000 lbs of displacement)

 

[sailaway78]

Wheel Autopilot

I have a 6000 series S1. It is exactly the same as the X-5, with the exception that it doesn't have the gyro. It does pretty good, and I would think the X-5 with the rudder sensor added would be the cats meow for a wheel pilot. That being said, if you got the bucks, go for a below deck installation.

 

[Les]

I have an SPX5 autopilot on my 2009 H27. Small sailboat, day sailor primarily which I like to single hand so the autopilot is necessary. The "brains" are down below in the navigation locker. So far it has worked very well. At first it use to wander all over the course but during the past year it hardly deviates from the course degree that I give it. Battery consumption appears to be minor.

Overall, I would buy it again. On the flip side I did have a Raymarine 5000 plus with chain drive that was just as good on my old Hunter 380. I never had a problem with it as well.

I commute between Bellingham and Friday Harbor in the San Juans, a distance of about 21 miles and the autopilot has yet to let me down. It works most of the time.

Hope this helps.

 

[Steve Dion]

FYI - If you have a course computer without a GYRO you can send it to Raymarine for the SxG upgrade. The charge about $400 for the upgrade. This is about half of the G add on device and it is all built in to the master unit.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Mine is the ST4000+, has the rudder position sensor, GPS interfaced, system is 5 years old. Works great, never an issue regardless of conditions. Last weekend we were out in 25+ knot winds, no reefs, small to moderate swell, spray across the deck. The system steered beautifully, auto-tacked fine. I've been really happy with mine.

edit:
I've heard all the groans about the difficulty in mounting the RPS. FWIW, the instructions call for upright mounting on the port side which requires fabricating a mount of some sort. I mounted mine upside down to the underside of the cockpit sole on the stbd side. I thought it was relatively easy to do.

 

[RAD]

FYI - If you have a course computer without a GYRO you can send it to Raymarine for the SxG upgrade. The charge about $400 for the upgrade. This is about half of the G add on device and it is all built in to the master unit.

So N&E and myself waited and waited for the X5 to materialize and went for the S1 and the pain in the a...s rudder sensor installation can be upgraded with a gyro?
what would I gain?
my system works great, put it through a real good test this summer offshore but in following seas it wasn't to happy

 

[AXEL]

To the OP,
You might want to clean all the termial lugs you should have attached to the back of the main unit. I had a friend who was having trouble with her AP drifing off course or just going completely off course for no reason. I cleaned all the connections and the problem went away.

 

[Capt. Kermie]

ST4000+ MK2 w/rudder sensor

Yes, Philip, that back ring drive unit is the same one I have. I think the Mk II has the bigger spoke saddles and a slightly different engagement lever.. May be gray vs black. I fought with my 4000+ for a couple of years trying to get the response and auto trim and rudder gain to make it work but was unsuccessful. I talked to Raymarine and they said that the rudder sensor would probably help.. I have had it on now for two years and it made a world of difference.

Yes the MKII is gray and does have biggger spoke saddles, I have the ST4000+ MKII, the last line before they upgraded to the SI wheelpilot. The rudder sensor does make a difference and I would not be without it, that is why I bought the older MKII when the new model was just coming out, I got one of the last ST4000+ models in the supply chain and at a discount because it was an older stock model. It would cost me twice what I paid to upgrade to the new models and I believe what I have is superior. I have a light boat though, A MacGregor 26M, about 4000 lbs. I quite like the old ST4000+ MK2 wheel pilot with the rudder sensor. Too bad they no longer make it.

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

Sorry guys but I am a bit confused now. So, the difference between MKII and the black Raython that I have, is simply the colour (grey) and different spoke saddles? I mean in effect it's the same drive?
Actually I remember some time ago the local Raymarine dealer telling me that if I needed a backup I could simply buy the new wheel drive (just the drive unit I mean) and simply connect it to the existing little plug at the wheel (or connect it anyway and keep the old one as a backup). There's no need to change anything else.

 

[kloudie1]

Philip, I am not an expert on this difference thing but I think that the MK II has upgraded software and the drive unit has some changes in addition to the color. The engagement lever is stronger and has a more positive action. I think the idler/guide wheels inside the housing are more robust. I believe that the motor and planetary gearbox itself is the same..Yes, the new drive unit will work with the old control head.
Now.. I think that the SPX has better software and is more robust than the 4000.. The drive units from the 4000 will work with the SPX

 

[Pat T]

ST4000 vs. SPX5

I too am think of replacing my ST4000. My visual display is getting hard to see. The unit came with the boat and it may be 15 plus years old. I also recently sheared some roll pins in the engagement lever & cam and used nails to fix it. I wonder what's next.
Some Catalina 36 owners have replaced their units with the SPX5 and many,
not all, are happy. The imain issue for us is that we are at the top of the range for what this pilot can handle weight wise. My boat empty is slightly over 14,000 lbs. When loaded I am pretty sure I can hit the top of the range for the SPX5 which is 16,000 lbs.

I don't know why RayMarine didn't make an equal replacement for the ST4000? Why is the new wheel pilot only able to handle 2000 less pounds than the old one? I would think a direct drive is better than a belt drive?

I am leaning toward the SPX5 based upon what other Catalina 36 owners have said. I know the below deck pilot is better but for the sailing I do I think I can get by with the SPX5. That being said, it is the end of the season for me and I am keeping and open mind. I probably will not make a purchace until (at the earliest) the Chicago boat show. Who knows maybe RayMarine will come up with an upgrade!

 

[Rick]

Re: ST4000 vs. SPX5

Phillip
The MKII is a "significant" upgrade to your old coal driven st4000+. It has a bigger and better motor that uses the same plug by the way so no problems there. It has a hole on the back of it where you can actually stick a hose in it to rinse it out. It also does not use the same belt concept... more gear driven. Going a bit off memory because I put it in about 4 years ago and have forgot about it. It just works.

All in all, probably a very cost effective upgrade that will talk just fine to your st4000+.

Saw one this morning for 439 dollars on the web. I have been very happy with mine. And it gets used.. alot!

Cheers and good luck.