Looking for Objective Opinions..

[Bill Roosa]

I'd agree Ross

It doesn't have to be an exercise in being miserable. But living on bread, muffins, nuts and only a gallon of water a day is not what I'd call the lap of luxury either. The actual solution is somewhere in between. the longer the crossing the more toward miserable you get.

What I'd glean from this is:
Going fast is desirable == bigger boat -->faster crossing
having more storage space is desirable == bigger boat -->more creature comforts
Staying married is desirable == bigger boat -->if your marriage had any rough spots before you started this will not make them get smoother.

One mans pleasant experience is another man's depraved nightmare.
I for one would not attempt it in less that a 40'er but I've gone soft after 20+ years of hauling an 80 lb ruck sack around for the US Army. I'm simply not going to do it any more.

 

[BobM]

Whichever you can find with an inboard diesel. The boats are fairly similar. The Bristol is far more common in New England of course.

 

[Ross]

The skills and knowledge of the cook will be the most important factor in making the best meals with the least amount of food. If we go the chinese restrurants and carefully study the meal we can discover what very small amounts of each ingredient is used to make a large dish of savory and flavorful food to enjoy with rice or noodles.
Some fresh vegatables will keep long enough to cross an ocean some won't keep for a week. Oranges will keep for several weeks without refrigeration, cabbage will keep even after you start cutting on it.

 

[Liam]

If you can find an Albin Vega for under $5k that would be a really good choice.
My first boat (back in 1976) was a Cal/Lapworth 24. Same design as Robin Graham's DOVE only built by Cal. Although it was pretty small, it was a great little sailing boat and was definately strong enough to go anywhere. I sailed it from San Francisco to Mexico and back.
Back in those days I never ever thought about safety gear... now I wouldn't go sailing without a liferaft and EPIRB. Those two items alone cost more than you are budgeting.
Who knows though, you may find someone who is basically giving away a good strong boat with lots of gear. I hope that you do. Good luck.

 

[Scribbin]

..at least you know what you want, that goes a long way. Most people with an idea like yours will fizzle out. I hope you don't.

Thanks man I really appreciate that!

 

[Scribbin]

The afore mentioned generalizations are good but! Allow that 2000 calories per person per day is more than enough food. Meat, dry cereal based foods are generally about 1500 cal;ories or more per pound, fruit fresh is about half that and dried or canned is a bit more. So for a thirty day ocean crossing with a twenty day safety factor we need between 75 and 100 pounds of food per person. This isn't a large volume. 5 Gallons of water per day per person exceeds our experience on Bietzpadlin by a factor of four. We wash with a bowl of water and a wash cloth and don't waste water. I built a 75 gallon water tank system into Bietzpadlin in three tanks. Of course you have a sea water pump in the galley. 5 pounds of flour will make six 22 ounce loaves of bread or 120 muffins.
The need for discipline on an ocean crossing is obvious but it need not be a trip of deprivation.

Yeah Don Caseys book "Dragged Aboard" that I read a while back (i'm reading everything I can get my hands on, even though I know there is no substitute for experience.) broke down all the food supply stuff and I agree with you Ross. You obviously have more experience than me and what you've said agrees with what I read also, so I don't think storage space will be a problem.

I don't know if i've just been lucky in the models of boats i've been looking into either, but the boats i've been looking at have 2 berths aft and then the V berth up front. This seems to be a pretty standard layout, and in the diagrams i've seen (even on the 27'ers), they both appear to be the same size berths... so is there something i'm not considering? Cause my friend is a MAN (unfortunately :-( ...) and i'm not planning on spooning with any dudes...

The part about not having cold beer is kind of a bum out... but then I started thinking, "You know what? Rum." But all kidding aside, since sea water can be pretty cold, is it logical at all to (while at anchor even at least..) to put can of beer/pop or even food that is sealed up, to be put on a line and dropped into the water to get a little colder? I hope I don't sound like an idiot right now cause it seems pretty logical to me...

One last thing in regards to the food situation..

I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but... as long as something tastes good I am NOT someone who needs a whole lot of variety. So once I find something that doesn't take up alot of space, tastes good, and supplys the vitamins/calories I need... i'll stock up. Any ideas? I love refried beans on tortillas and I know those have alot of calories... (i have the beer gut to prove it!) but... i'm also not trying to die of a heart attack in the middle of the ocean.

 

[Scribbin]

If you can find an Albin Vega for under $5k that would be a really good choice.
My first boat (back in 1976) was a Cal/Lapworth 24. Same design as Robin Graham's DOVE only built by Cal. Although it was pretty small, it was a great little sailing boat and was definately strong enough to go anywhere. I sailed it from San Francisco to Mexico and back.
Back in those days I never ever thought about safety gear... now I wouldn't go sailing without a liferaft and EPIRB. Those two items alone cost more than you are budgeting.
Who knows though, you may find someone who is basically giving away a good strong boat with lots of gear. I hope that you do. Good luck.

The Vega was added to my wish list after reading "Berserk: My Journey to Antarctica in a 27 Foot Fiberglass Sailboat"... because Jarles boat was a Vega, and he took it EVERYWHERE.. from age 19 to his mid twentys. It also inspired me to chase my dream after realizing someone else was already living MY goal. So yeah, I HIGHLY agree with that and have heard nothing really bad about the Vegas..

Except that Jarles sank later! haha

 

[Scribbin]

The skills and knowledge of the cook will be the most important factor in making the best meals with the least amount of food. If we go the chinese restrurants and carefully study the meal we can discover what very small amounts of each ingredient is used to make a large dish of savory and flavorful food to enjoy with rice or noodles.
Some fresh vegatables will keep long enough to cross an ocean some won't keep for a week. Oranges will keep for several weeks without refrigeration, cabbage will keep even after you start cutting on it.

Haha! Ross they just had a thing on Norwegian Television (yes I watch Norwegian Television sometimes i'm a wierdo.) about living aboard a boat and they said the SAME thing.

Although I am fine with eating the same things over and over, i'm also very into cooking, so I will be the one responsible for that aspect of living. My family wanted me to go to culinary school my whole life (not for me) in fact, and i'm sure i'll be able to make some decent stuff... however... my friend leaving with me came from a Native American household and grew up on an entirely different type of menu than me... and that might create some interesting discussions... since he doesn't know how to cook at all... and therefore won't be much help in offering his opinions...

Lack of fresh onions and fresh fruit (depending on the length of the crossing) is going to get to me however... since their canned substitutes are NOT the same to me... :-/ While he's getting used to sailing (he's been on boats, but never worked anything himself) we'll be sailing to Puerto Rico... to get everything functioning smoothly, make any changes we see fit, and hopefully pick up some nicely tanned women... (let a man dream!)... so hopefully while i'm there I can meet up with some of the Caribbean cruisers who might be able to SEE my finished setup and help us make some changes..

With the economy the way it is... are the usual cruising spots still seeing decent traffic?

 

[Scribbin]

If you can find an Albin Vega for under $5k that would be a really good choice.
My first boat (back in 1976) was a Cal/Lapworth 24. Same design as Robin Graham's DOVE only built by Cal. Although it was pretty small, it was a great little sailing boat and was definately strong enough to go anywhere. I sailed it from San Francisco to Mexico and back.
Back in those days I never ever thought about safety gear... now I wouldn't go sailing without a liferaft and EPIRB. Those two items alone cost more than you are budgeting.
Who knows though, you may find someone who is basically giving away a good strong boat with lots of gear. I hope that you do. Good luck.

Well... the EPIRB is definitely going to be onboard. We've discussed that and we both have people in our immediate familys who told us that they're buying one if we're not, so... we couldn't leave without one even if we tried.

A liferaft is a different matter however. Now, I know you can't put a price on a mens lives but... due to price/space reasons... I would say it's probably a 95% chance at this point that we will not be having a liferaft aboard. I have very strong beliefs in God, so although I know it sounds cliche, I expect he will watch over us even if that means death. Since I DO believe in a life after death. So, even though i'm not trying to sound tough or anything, the the thought of dying, in itself, doesn't bother me... although the thought of DROWNING is not exactly pleasant...

Also, in severe weather or when things look their worst... i've heard SO many storys about people who abandoned their boat, and died, while their boat was found still floating days/months later... and seeing as how me and my buddy can both be fairly impulsive, and not afraid to act on top of it... not having a raft aboard would keep us in check when things might look REALLY bad due to intense situations around us. A good measure of this is naive thinking however, I won't lie, since sinking isn't a factor weighing heavily on my mind.

 

[Ross]

Yellow onions keep quite well as do sweet potatoes. I home can all of the market available meats and poultry and also put up a lot of stock for cooking purposes. All of the dried fruits work well in muffins. If you open packages of bacon and spread them on trays they dry enough to not rot. The fat is an important part to save for cooking.
This link is one of the best for food preservation: http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/index.html

 

[Bill Roosa]

Life raft options

Learn how to heave to. this is the one time tested solution to almost all bad weather situations. Also don't get underway without those storm sails or a triple reefable main.
more importantly, have some means to get weather information while underway. Avoidance is better than "manning it out." A standard marine HF will get you access but you need the fax decoder to actually read the data. You will also have to learn how to read them and do your own forecast. There are also HF weather voice reports for most of the world.
I share your opinion on life rafts and folks abandoning ship too soon only to die while their boat survives.
course now you don't have a life raft but do have more sails, an HF rig and weather fax decoder, weather forecast books to find a place for below.

nothing is free and most stuff you NEED is expensive.

 

[Ross]

Re: Life raft options

We on the east or gulf coast can tell when a large storm is brewing because the swells radiate from it for hundreds of miles. The storm is always on a line at right angles to the swells and the clouds preceed it by a few hundred miles.

 

[zeehag]

we found on the gulf that the sky told us better weather reports than did noaa's automated weathervoice from hell. the only times we found noaa vhf weather was accurate to the letter was 60 mi off appalachicola, fla, our first time there and at 0200 hearing a panicked human speaking aloud that we were in the middle of "buoy to buoy severe electrical storms off apalachicola. mariners seek immediate shelter".. so we began looking for the garage to pull into as we sailed thru some spectacular electrical activity--was scary. good sailing. we laughed as i packed a ditch bag.....and hid under the kat--we found that just keeping on was the best solution--we would have had much more difficulty had we stopped to heave to under storm anchor, which would have deployed in mixmaster seas and got us truly messed up---we surfed into the bay at apalachicola on 6 ft seas.....at 0600.....not to mention all that lightning--

onions and potatoes and some fruits save well fresh in different places in boat--near water line is taters , onions fly in a net, and fruits and tomatoes are bought grass green and used as they ripen.





(wouldnta missed it for the world--was an excellent shake down cruise!!!!)

 

[Scribbin]

nothing is free and most stuff you NEED is expensive.

How much is a decent setup for recieving weather reports?

 

[Scribbin]

we found on the gulf that the sky told us better weather reports than did noaa's automated weathervoice from hell. the only times we found noaa vhf weather was accurate to the letter was 60 mi off appalachicola, fla, our first time there and at 0200 hearing a panicked human speaking aloud that we were in the middle of "buoy to buoy severe electrical storms off apalachicola. mariners seek immediate shelter".. so we began looking for the garage to pull into as we sailed thru some spectacular electrical activity--was scary. good sailing. we laughed as i packed a ditch bag.....and hid under the kat--we found that just keeping on was the best solution--we would have had much more difficulty had we stopped to heave to under storm anchor, which would have deployed in mixmaster seas and got us truly messed up---we surfed into the bay at apalachicola on 6 ft seas.....at 0600.....not to mention all that lightning--

onions and potatoes and some fruits save well fresh in different places in boat--near water line is taters , onions fly in a net, and fruits and tomatoes are bought grass green and used as they ripen.





(wouldnta missed it for the world--was an excellent shake down cruise!!!!)

I like what you said about the sky telling you more than the weather reports. That's one of the things that I keep telling myself to not get overly anxious about the things i'm not very knowledgeable on yet (which is alot more topics than i'm willing to admit! haha), because it seems like alot of those things, like reading the water and weather especially, are things that people pick up with experience. I'm excited for the time to come when the sky tells me more than just what color it is...

 

[rgranger]

Coronado 25

There was a guy who beefed up an old Cal 25 and took himself and his wife and his 2 kids around the world. the Cruising World mag site may have some info on what he did as they called him yachtman of the year.

I used to own a Coronado 25. It is still at my marina. I sold it to a lady who had never owned a boat and who lived 2 hours away. I even gave her a lesson and told her I thought this was too much of a boat for a first boat.... anyway. It is for sale again. And I think you could pick it up for $2000 due to the situation of the current owner.

It is currently in Lake Haven Marina at Smith Mountain Lake.


The coronado 25 is a heavy boat with lots of glass. A buddy of mine and I took out the boat two hours after the remains of Hurricane Hannah passed over Smith Mountain Lake. She can do fine in 30 mph with every stitch of sail up. Admittedly we had way to much sail up... but that was the point of the day

 

[Ross]

Start by checking the cloud picture sites on the internet and comparing the look of the sky to the weather forecast and current report for your area.
For example today in Maryland we have a perfectly clear sky almost pure blue to the horizon.(no air pollution). Last Thursday we had high thin clouds that built in from the south east during the day and on Friday we were completely overcast in the morning with light rain showers and in the late afternoon the sky cleared from south to north. Hurricane Earl moved up the coast a couple of hundred miles to our east. Without the weather reports I might not have ever known of the hurricane. But watch the sky and clouds change during the day and during the week. Pay attention to the wind direction before during and after each change in the weather and for each storm. Putting the cloud pictures and their meanings together with the wind shifts and the barometric readings and quite soon you will know if the forecast storm will hit you or pass you by.

Edit to add: This is a good site for clouds and their meanings. http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/cld/cldtyp/home.rxml

 

[Stu Jackson]

I'm excited for the time to come when the sky tells me more than just what color it is...

Easy: blue, white or dark. It's learning the combinations that takes some time. When I was a kid at camp I volunteered to get up early, go to the nature shed, read the barometer and temperatures and make up a weather report for the day. I read a book on it. Was just as good as these newer 55% weathermen on TV! Now there's so much information on the internet you don't need a book, but they are more portable unless you have a kindle.

 

[Ross]

Does "Kindle" do color pictures?

 

[Plumper II]

I'd go with the Vega 27. They have been far and wide and have a great online owners group. Two guys here in Victoria sailed one to Hawaii last summer just for fun. They are a well found tough little cruiser.
Good luck.