Electrical "System" Overhaul
- Thread starter Jfelkins
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Bad Dog!
I took the panel apart today and am now on the hunt for switches and breakers. the old ones were frozen on so out came the trusty Dremel to cut them free. The plate is still in good shape. If I understand Don Casey right, wires should not be soldered directly to a terminal. They should have a connector crimped on. the picture below shows how all the switches were just soldered on and the there was one solid (also a no no) wire soldered to all the fuses.
Any recommendations on brands of breakers? Thanks! Here is my old one (the button doesn't even plunge any more) and what I found on Defender.
I took the panel apart today and am now on the hunt for switches and breakers. the old ones were frozen on so out came the trusty Dremel to cut them free. The plate is still in good shape. If I understand Don Casey right, wires should not be soldered directly to a terminal. They should have a connector crimped on. the picture below shows how all the switches were just soldered on and the there was one solid (also a no no) wire soldered to all the fuses.
Any recommendations on brands of breakers? Thanks! Here is my old one (the button doesn't even plunge any more) and what I found on Defender.
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http://bluesea.com/category/62/27/productline/120
You can buy a small 4 ,6 or 8 position pannel pretty cheep and ready to go in with a bit of possable minor cutting
You can buy a small 4 ,6 or 8 position pannel pretty cheep and ready to go in with a bit of possable minor cutting
A properly-soldered joint can be relied on, as long as it's big enough and the circuit is protected by a fuse or breaker so that the joint can't overheat under normal conditions.
But too often, inexperienced labour or the timid DIYer will not make consistently good solder joints. For that reason, most people will produce the best connections by using good wire and connectors, and the right controlled-cycle ("ratcheting") crimpers.
ABYC and UL/CSA specify that any soldered power connections must first be mechanically secured - eg poking the wire through a hole, then a full wrap around the terminal, before they are soldered.
Using a solid piece of wire as a short buss bar across the fuses isn't necessarily a no-no, as long as the wire is heavy enough and the solder joints were properly made. In that picture of the bus bar, all the solder joints are too small for my liking, and not mechanically secure enough.
So, proper crimped connections are the safest and best option for most sailors. They also make it much easier to troubleshoot and replace failed components.
Zen and the art of Sailboat maintenance.
I'm learning on the job here but I've already figured out that it's bad to make a connection via solder only. Here's the back of the old panel. My plan is to replace the old breakers and switches. I want to retain the old plate. I'm also learning about wire. Stranded, tinned, etc. I wish I could just buy stuff from Lowes but I want to do it right.
I'm learning on the job here but I've already figured out that it's bad to make a connection via solder only. Here's the back of the old panel. My plan is to replace the old breakers and switches. I want to retain the old plate. I'm also learning about wire. Stranded, tinned, etc. I wish I could just buy stuff from Lowes but I want to do it right.
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I bought an 8' spool of 10 gauge the other day and almost fell over it was $19 I'm sure that there is places to buy it cheaper, but It was needed right away to get the boat going, and I had to buy it. Be prepared to spend some $$$ and don't skimp. If you can buy in bulk, you can save some bucks.
Dave
Dave
What we call the right way
Yes you can solder those slide on connectors but you should not even be using that type. ALL good marine grade CBs have screw on terminals for a reason. The ABYC directs that all connections should be positively retained. solder can harden and crack over time. So a bus bar and marine grade CBs with ring connectors (of the right size) is the proper (but more expensive) way to go.
marine grade will last longer in a marine environment so you may actually save money over the life of the setup. you will also enjoy the ease at changing the configuration with just a screw driver and not have to have a soldering iron which will probably require a shore power connection to power. Think of how you would make repairs at sea. It would be pretty hard to swap out a CB (you have sparis, right) at sea with out a soldering iron doing your way. Don't try a torch as the high heat can damage the electrical parts you solder to.
Yes you can solder those slide on connectors but you should not even be using that type. ALL good marine grade CBs have screw on terminals for a reason. The ABYC directs that all connections should be positively retained. solder can harden and crack over time. So a bus bar and marine grade CBs with ring connectors (of the right size) is the proper (but more expensive) way to go.
marine grade will last longer in a marine environment so you may actually save money over the life of the setup. you will also enjoy the ease at changing the configuration with just a screw driver and not have to have a soldering iron which will probably require a shore power connection to power. Think of how you would make repairs at sea. It would be pretty hard to swap out a CB (you have sparis, right) at sea with out a soldering iron doing your way. Don't try a torch as the high heat can damage the electrical parts you solder to.
Switch and fuse right way
Same goes if you go with a switch and fuse setup. Get fuse holders that have screw on terminals. I note that most have a hole in the terminals so you could use the end terminal screwed to a buss bar and nut and screw on the other to connect to the switch. The buss bar can span all the fuese to keep the wiring spaghetti under control.
Same goes if you go with a switch and fuse setup. Get fuse holders that have screw on terminals. I note that most have a hole in the terminals so you could use the end terminal screwed to a buss bar and nut and screw on the other to connect to the switch. The buss bar can span all the fuese to keep the wiring spaghetti under control.
Same Problem
Gary
Just bought a Oday 25 and my electrical system looks like your pictures. I bet you main power is not turned on by a battery test 1 switch! Ours is. Have two battery switch with only one battery. What a mess maybe you and I can share thoughts on what and how to do.
Gary
Just to clarify the ABYC E-11 guidelines, they do not allow for any wire twisting or poking through a hole then twisting. UL/CSA may, but ABYC, which is written specifically with boats in mind, does not allow for this.
As an ABYC member I have personally asked for clarification and interpretation on this and it must be mechanical but can not be twisting, splicing or knotting of wires. Both John Adey and Eric Johnson replied to my standards interpretation question with the same answer. Western Union Splices, wire twisting etc. do not meet E-11's definition of mechanical connection but crimps do, as do pressure connections eg: screw terminals.
Thanks for the clarification. I'm on firm ground with the UL/CSA, less so for the ABYC spec, so I looked it up in my copy of Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual (Calder, 3rd ed.), and on p 172 I found a brief mention of ABYC requiring "every joint to have a mechanical means of connection other than solder", which is the same intent as UL/CSA... so i assumed the same for ABYC.
I was actually referring to soldering power wires to solder terminals and lugs, not soldered running splices, and for situations like permanent busses or short connections on the back of panels, or inside equipment. Would your caveat still apply there?
BTW I'm aiming to complete the ABYC electrical certification course this fall.
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