LED Cabin Light Conversion

[BobM]

Let us know...

They are very calming. We actually have three different types of lighting in the saloon: trawler lamp, original light fixtures (1986) (with halogen replacements for incandescent bulbs behind plastic) and two surface mount halogens over the galley and saloon table for higher level lighting. It's really great to be able to use the lighting for different times and purposes.

Because I'm a luddite, I'm going to rip the all electric lights out pretty soon.

...if you plan to rip out your diesel and go 100% sail. No doubt Garylinger could use it

 

[Stu Jackson]

Ah, no,

...if you plan to rip out your diesel and go 100% sail. No doubt Garylinger could use it

I think hermit would want it first! Plus, he likes it dark, too.

 

[Bob S]

Hey Stu,

do you find the oil lamps generate to much heat? I read on Sailnet a woman used them to heat her boat. I was thinking of adding a few to mine. She comes out tomorrow.:cry:

 

[Stu Jackson]

Trawler lamps and heat

...do you find the oil lamps generate too much heat? I read on Sailnet a woman used them to heat her boat.

Bob, we find it takes the chill off, but that's it. The trawler lamp is not really a heating device, and maybe the "ambiance" of it makes it feel warmer than it is. The water temperature here stays the same year round and so does the air for that matter! When it got really cold one time at anchor we fired up the catalytic heater in the saloon when we woke up. That helped a little bit, too, but getting dressed quickly was the key that day! If I wake up early and it's a tad chilly I'll light the trawler lamp, too.

I'd be interested in the link to that sailnet discussion, 'cuz you'd have to have a lot of trawler lamps to get warm, or start out at 75 degrees outside!

 

[Bob S]

Here you go Stu,

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruis...p-small-sailboat-during-chilling-october.html

 

[Hermit Scott]

I think hermit would want it first! Plus, he likes it dark, too.

It's not that I like the dark, I just hate the sun.
LEDs are great, I could probably leave them on 24/7 and not have to worry about the drain on the bank.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks, Bob

for the link. More heat than light? Seems some folks just need to get a West Marine or defender catalog and read it.

 

[dennisp]

LED Lamp Conversion. 1. In the spring (2009) I replaced both masthead lights with LED units on my Hunter 306. I was hoping my recurring anchor light problem wasn’t a contact or corrosion issue, of course...but, anyway, for the LED units, I bought 2 “Dr. LED Polar Star 40” units – replacement for the Aqua Signal series 40. Note that these say they are 2 nm rated, and current draw is 0.9 amps or less. Meets CE standard, and should satisfy USCG requirements, I think. Both are their replacement for the 25 watt AND 10 watt bulbs. (Prices BTW, for comparison, at WM standard incandescent 10 watt and 12 watt bulbs were $19 and $20, and the Polar Star 40 LED units were $50…though with a little searching you might find them for about $44 elsewhere (Svendsen’s offers them a bit less).) Oh, and the festoon bulbs for front (bicolor) and aft white Hella Series 3562 nav lights have already been changed to Mastlight.com 44mm festoon-type LED units. (You can use the bright white unit in the aft white lens, but they recommend you use the “warm white” unit for the bicolor lens.) Costs for these units were about $20 each, as opposed to the $2-3 for the standard festoons, but current drops very significantly – to about 0.2 amps. Oh, and life is estimated to be 50K+ hours for these LEDs, though I still have to worry about contact corrosion. We’ll see… Anyway, writing this at the end of the 2009 sailing season….all LED lights for Navigation worked fine all summer. (So let’s assume I had no corrosion or contact issues with the masthead unit initially.) I hope I don't run into the 200 hour failure issue reported above for Dr. LEDs.
[FONT=&quot]2. I also recently changed all the cabin lights to LEDs. FYI, for the G4 halogens (six in the main salon, and one in the head….way aft) that came with the boat, I changed to flat LED units (from Superbrightleds.com), and the 2 spotlights with G4s in each of the berths I also changed to long round LED units. I also had three “wedge base” light units, one at the entrance to the aft cabin, another in the head, above the sink, and a third in the middle of the aft berth, and I changed these to LEDs also. (The 7 flat LED units – warm white – with composed of 6 LEDs. Each G4 unit cost $11.95 each (X 7). I would say these are only slightly less output than the original Halogens. The 4 spotlight units – also warm white – had 15 LEDs on each unit, and cost $16.95 each (X 4). These seem as bright as the replaced G4s. They work fine for reading. The wedge base units had only 4 or 6 LEDs and were only $3.95 each (X 3)…noticeably less bright than the replaced incandescent wedge bulbs, but these are not primary lighting and (for me) work fine – really cheap, but I don’t think they are available anymore. You do the math. I bought these in two orders…first to see what they were…that they worked…and if they were OK…then the second order to finish up replacing all cabin lights. So it probably pretty much more expensive than standard incandescent and halogen lighting, etc., but then they SHOULD last a long time…and the current draw is much less!!!) I’m happy. All LEDs are still working a few months down the pike (well, down the river!). We’ll see how it goes next summer when I splash her and try all the lighting again. Hope this helps. I'm happy with the conversions. [/FONT]

 

[Steve Dion]

Oil lamps? Stu you're living in the dark ages. LED lighting uses only milli-amps, They are vibration, shock and water proof. They don't get hot and can virtually be left on for weeks, All of them at once . The downfall is the high price and nasty light they produce isn't warm and cosy like an oil lamp. No wonder I'm so cranky all the time. I need to get an oil lamp.

You may have a different feeling about oil lamps once you are living in the bay area. This also makes an excellent source of warmth. Not something that is very attractive in Tx.

 

[Ron20324]

Dennis, Most info I've seen says to NOT use white LEDs in the red/green nav fixtures. Use only red/green bulbs. Apparently the LED can make the red/green some other offspring color.

 

[John Todd]

LED Conversion

Our boat has 14 10w Halogen bulbs w/ G-4 bases in the cabin light fixtures and we are interested in converting to Warm White LED's. Has someone experimented with the various Warm White LED manufacturer's? Given equivalent color temperatures, are the LED's the same?

I have replaced most of the lights in my Beneteau 423 with LED lights. Unfortunately some of these were Dr.LED brand bulbs which do not last. They are expensive ( $79.99 Cdn) and carry a 1 year warranty. Within 18 months several were quite dull with up to half of the light emitting diodes not working. The model DRL02050 was particularly bad. I contacted the company and was told that they could do nothing for me if the lights were purchased more than a year ago.

John

 

[Bob S]

John,

i had the same problem. I don't expect they'll be in business long with the way they treat their customers. I had problems with the Polar Star 25 used as an anchor light and stern light. Failed only made it one season (4 months) and looked like this when I was launching her the next spring.

 

[dserrell]

White LED light bulbs will make red lenses look blue.

We purchased an LED Masthead Anchor Light for our 89' Compac 19/3 "Pachebella". The LED Masthead Anchor Light meets USCG regulations, works very well, and still looks new. It was purchased from the following vendor:

http://www.boaterbits.ca/electrical/navigation-lighting/led-boat-anchor-masthead-light.html

David

 

[Maine Sail]

White LED light bulbs will make red lenses look blue.

We purchased an LED Masthead Anchor Light for our 89' Compac 19/3 "Pachebella". The LED Masthead Anchor Light meets USCG regulations, works very well, and still looks new. It was purchased from the following vendor:

http://www.boaterbits.ca/electrical/navigation-lighting/led-boat-anchor-masthead-light.html

David

David,

The light in your link MAY meet USCG regs but we do not know if it does or not because it is in fact not a USCG or ABYC approved light.

That light fixture is made by Victory Products / Reckford and the bulb by a different manufacturer and neither were or have been submitted for USCG approvals. None of the Victory Products nav lights, even without LED's, have a USCG certification.

It can be misleading to say that a nav light "meets USCG regulations" when we have no idea if it actually does or not while at the same time we do know that it does not have an actual USCG certification.

I just got off the phone with Aquasignal less than 20 minutes ago. I have their series 32 Bi-Color light on my boat and a friend is looking for one too.

Unfortunately the Series 32 is undergoing a complete re-design because the manufacturer of the LED emitter no longer makes them. Because their LED's are USCG approved they can NOT just switch light emitting diodes and remain certified. Aquasignal takes this stuff seriously. Rather than putting a new LED in the existing Series 32 fixture, and attempting a re-certification, they chose to do a complete re-design... USCG certifications are expensive and fairly stringent in lots of parameters, not just brightness or color spectrum..

 

[dserrell]

Mainsail,

The light can be seen from 2 miles which complies with the USCG regulation for boats the size of Pachebella, but your absolutely right it's not USCG or ABYC approved. I don't know of any LED navigation lights that are? Yet many boats today have LED navigation lights. Thanks!

David

 

[sailingdog]

Lopolights, Orca green Marine and several other manufacturers all make USCG certified LED-based nav lights. The Aquasignal Series 32 was one reasonably priced LED nav light line, but as Maine Sail points out, they're currently under revision.

Mainsail,

The light can be seen from 2 miles which complies with the USCG regulation for boats the size of Pachebella, but your absolutely right it's not USCG or ABYC approved. I don't know of any LED navigation lights that are? Yet many boats today have LED navigation lights. Thanks!

David

 

[dserrell]

Lopolights, Orca green Marine and several other manufacturers all make USCG certified LED-based nav lights. The Aquasignal Series 32 was one reasonably priced LED nav light line, but as Maine Sail points out, they're currently under revision.

Sailingdog,

Thanks for the info on Lopolights and Orca Green Marine navigation lights. I was able to find them, however their cost for an anchor light is more than 3 times the cost of the LED anchor light I purchased. Guess getting the USCG certification is a very expensive process? What advantage does having USCG certification provide, if a navigation light complies with USCG regulations? I know Plastimo the largest manufacturer of maine products in Europe and the industry leader in Europe does not have USCG approval for many of their fine products, i.e. life rafts, etc. I believe the cost for USCG certification may be the reason?

I'm familiar with the ISO certification process manufacturing companies go through, however many companies produce high quality products in their manufacturing facilities which are not ISO certified. ISO certification is very expensive. Guessing this is the case with USCG certification? Fair weather!

David

 

[Maine Sail]

Sailingdog,

What advantage does having USCG certification provide, if a navigation light complies with USCG regulations?

First, you can NOT say a non-USCG certified nav light "meets" or "complies" with the regulations. You can only gess at that until it has been through the testing and is certified. The 1 or 2 mile reg is only a small part of the certification process..

Second, boat builders are required to install USCG certified nav lights. This is a requirement under the code of federal regulations. For a boat owner installing lights it is not a requirement that the lights be USCG certified.

It is however a wise idea to have USCG certified nav lights because if you were involved in a night time accident your lights could be called into question and it would be up to you to prove that the light met the requiremnts as laid out in the CFR. Doing this in court could far eclipse the cost savings of buying a non-scertified nav-light. In short it is a gamble many are willing to take for the sake of saving a few bucks.

Having sat through the nav light testimony, in the death of one of my best friends fathers, jury rigging nav lights, and installing non-cert lights is not something I am personally willing to risk, but that is me. The old addage of "it won't happen to me" is not one I choose to live by having had a boating death personally affect me. Other choose to take these risks and the odds are quite low that you would get into a situation using them but it could happen. I'm sure my frind Kim never thought her dad would have been killed on the way home from dinner, in their boat, but he was..

I know Plastimo the largest manufacturer of maine products in Europe and the industry leader in Europe does not have USCG approval for many of their fine products, i.e. life rafts, etc. I believe the cost for USCG certification may be the reason?

We are not talking about life rafts. Furthermore, I know of no rule, other than in private sanctioned races, that requires a recreational boat to carry a life raft. Recreational boats are required to display navigation lights though. The size of a manufacturerreally has little to do with it. There are many small companies who have ponied up, put their money where thier mouth is, and got the USCG certification.

I'm familiar with the ISO certification process manufacturing companies go through, however many companies produce high quality products in their manufacturing facilities which are not ISO certified. ISO certification is very expensive. Guessing this is the case with USCG certification?

Comparing a CFR requirement to a voluntary standard is not apples to apples. Boat builders are required by the code of federal regulations to install USCG certified nav lights but they are not required to be ISO certified. I am going to guess the certification costs some money, as do other required federal standards certifications..

P.S. I have emailed Dr. LED & the USCG about my PolarStar 40 anchor light. Dr. LED slightly changed the design yet is still claiming USCG certification? The bulb I ordered is NOT the same exact bulb they put through certifications.

I highly doubt that a design change in the bulb would still hold a USCG certification this is why I have asked for clarification from the USCG and Dr. LED. If it is not USCG certified I will be changing it to a fixture/LED that is. Many LED companies, such as Dr. LED, are rather unscrupulous and somewhat dishonest about their products and or their certifications and marketing wording ("meets USCG requirements" etc.).

I happen to believe Dr. LED is lying to me about the current PolarStar 40 still carrying a USCG certification. I have NO PROBLEM coughing up the money to have a USCG certified nav light if this one is not by chance still a USCG certified anchor light.....

 

[Bob S]

This can be deceiving. I was looking for a replacement for the failed Dr. LED bulbs and was looking at this one from Defender

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|17|295769|320396|320406&id=1014045

and in the description it says:

"NaviLED®360 lamps meet the requirements of IMO COLREG 72, USCG and RINA."

It doesn't say anywhere that it is USCG approved.

On the Dr. LED issue, they finally sent me one bulb to replace the two bulbs that failed. (50%) I originally bought the Polarstar 25 which is Coast Guard approved, they sent me a 10-30 VDC Festoon LED bulb that is supposed to fit Series 25 fixtures but no where on the package does it say it is Coast Guard Approved.
I personally am very disappointed in Dr LED.

 

[Maine Sail]

I originally bought the Polarstar 25 which is Coast Guard approved, they sent me a 10-30 VDC Festoon LED bulb that is supposed to fit Series 25 fixtures but no where on the package does it say it is Coast Guard Approved.
I personally am very disappointed in Dr LED.

Neither your old PolarStar 25 nor the new one ever received USCG certifications.

This is more of how misleading Dr. LED is. I personally asked him to change the wording on his site regarding the USCG certifications and that conversation was over a year ago when I called with questions regarding a PolarStar 40 when used in an AquaSignal Series 40 bi-color (not certified).

The ONLY bulb he has a certification on is the PolarStar 40 when used in an Aquasignal Series 40 All Round fixture. His "press release", and web site, are worded carefully to be misleading. He has chosen to keep it this way and I find it repulsive and totally dishonest. There are many boaters who have paid lots of money thinking they received USCG certified bulbs when in fact they received rather expensive non-certified LED's.