Converting from the Dark Side

[darthvader]

Hello all

We are new to sail boating. We have been boating for over 20 years. To give you an idea of our experience level we currently own a 1985 Hatteras MY and we have taken her through the Erie Canal, across Ontario, and up to 1000 Islands twice. We've done the Champlain Canal system to Lake Champlain (never met Champy tho) and gone as far as Block Island on the L.I. Sound. Last year we took Freedom South on the ICW and then Wintered over in the Abacos.
All along I have been maintaining and upgrading Freedom myself. This includes removal and installation of a transmission at 400 lbs. So I consider myself a bit mechanically inclined. By profession we were both software engineers, however I hold a B.S.E.E. which I no longer practice and have basically forgotten.
Too many Grabbers and Nippers I suppose.

So we've been around a bit.

I use Nobeltec software for planning, and have been downloading updated charts from NOAA.

About the only sailing experience I can claim is on a 16 foot Hobie years ago. Along with this I do ok in a Sailfish and Laser having had to be towed back only once. If going out on various snorkle trips in the Caribean counts for experience we have some of that also but I suspect that lines up with the Nippers/Grabbers line. Here and there folks have let me pilot their sailboats but this usually occurs after all of the sails are set.

So anyway,

We've often thought about getting into a sailboat. There is one large problem with this. I stand 6'4" and also have a bad back. That means being crammed into a low head room boat is not a good thing.
We have examined a number of boats at Sail America in Philly, and racers are off the list. As a matter of fact, anything without a full keel probably is also. I don't want to have to dive the boat because the rudder is fouled with weeds holding us back.

If I could put a dollar figure on what we could spend (don't tell the S.O.) I'd put it around 150 to 200K. Since the ICW is a requirement the mast cannot exceed, say 60 feet.

So what brand of boats would be a reasonable starting point leaning towards the head room aspect?

Thanks and Regards
Dan

 

[Stu Jackson]

Bright side

Dan, this is a recurring question. The most repeated answers are:

1. Go on a lot of sailboats because they tend to "find you" - really. Here's an example:

In regard to different models. It is really a personal choice, if you have a significant other....their input is very important. We were having a hard time deciding between the two boats of a mid-30s length, one with a forward head and one with the head amidships. We were visiting a friend who was working a boat show in Fla. It was late on Sunday, crowds were down. We told the broker we weren't buying, just shopping. He understood, having better things to do, let us look at the boats on our own. After about an hour on each, we were sitting in the salon of the one discussing pros and cons, the Admiral declared the this one was the boat for us.

Personal opinion here....a slightly larger model (one foot longer than the smaller and one foot shorter than the larger) with much greater headroom is a great boat, but I don't like leather interiors and prefer the head be aft near the companionway. Take some time, figure out what is important to you, look at the different models and then to decide what is right for you.

You also need to like the looks - row away in the dinghy and say Wow. If not, move on to another boat.

2. Take lessons on smaller boats to learn how the wind really works - so you can feel it on the hairs on the back of your neck! Then build up on increasingly larger boats to include lessons on your boat - this can be done at a sailing school or in a package. We did the eventually on our own boat in a four lesson package. We bought the boat first because we knew what we wanted, but you can do this the other way around, too.

3. Read, read, read: A good book to read, even if you don't buy it, just peruse in a chandlery, is Nigel Calder's Cruising Handbook. The first half of the book discusses features to look for that are applicable, not only to offshore boats, but to layouts and features in general for good sized coastal cruisers.

4. Engine Oil Dipsticks: Being a boater already, you understand the need for access to equipment. If you can't EASILY access the dipstick, be wary about access to the rest of the stuff. Look behind stuff to see if you can get to stuff. Like the stuffing box.

5. Supportive manufacturers and websites: Often mentioned as important assets, and many times only after a boat has been purchased and the website is "discovered" when feedback and lessons learned save a new owner scads of time. If you have your eye on a particular model, check the owners association or freelance websites for information available, quality of material, ease of use and friendliness of the respondents.

Good luck and happy hunting.

PS What brands of boats that meet your criteria is a wide open question & answer. With $150K to $200K you are balancing the length with the age/condition of the boats under consideration. Here's where you get to do some heavy lifting. Major production builders still in business are Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau and Jeanneau. Buy a sailboat magazine and look at the ads. Try these two local sailing magazines available online: www.latitude38.com and www.48north.com

 

[Benny]

Just make a list of your desired features, highlighting those that may be non-negotiable like a 6'5" minimum cabin height, full keel etc. Coming off a 43' Hatteras indicates you may require a 38' to 40' sailboat. Limiting mast height may require a ketch riggin for a boat that size. Filter the available selection through your budget of $150 to $200K leaving the model year and condition as variables and start looking through broker listings and forum ads. I can picture a boat that may fill your needs, they are well built but rather pricey. Check out the "Island Packet" and see what size and year models may fit your budget. There are inherent differences between a sailboat and a powerboat other than the obvious so make sure before you plunge down a chunk of change that it is what you want to do. Unless you have the available time your cruising area will be about 4 times smaller than with your current boat. Daily trips can be 10 hours long as opposed to 2 or 3. On the upside your fuel costs will be significantly reduced. Do a couple of charters and insure that is what you want to do. Take your time, do your homework and find a boat that suits you.

 

[sailingdog]

One thing to add to the list of things to look for is a decent berth. People of your height can often find boats that they can live with the headroom on, only to find out that there isn't a single berth aboard that they can stretch out comfortably in... One boat that comes to mind as a possible candidate is the Gemini 105 catamaran. I did a delivery of one earlier this summer and the owner is a bit over 6' tall.

However, I would highly recommend that you go aboard as many boats as possible... finding one that is going to be workable for you requires that... what may sound fine on paper may be a nightmare in practice.

 

[darthvader]

Everyone knows that manufacturers will stretch the truth a bit. What we are hoping for are some insights from owners or people that have been aboard a particular boat and were impressed by the amount of room for the size and the headroom.

IF

this happens, we have quite a bit of distance getting there. All of the above pointers are appreciated and understood.

 

[darthvader]

One thing to add to the list of things to look for is a decent berth. People of your height can often find boats that they can live with the headroom on, only to find out that there isn't a single berth aboard that they can stretch out comfortably in... One boat that comes to mind as a possible candidate is the Gemini 105 catamaran. I did a delivery of one earlier this summer and the owner is a bit over 6' tall.

However, I would highly recommend that you go aboard as many boats as possible... finding one that is going to be workable for you requires that... what may sound fine on paper may be a nightmare in practice.

Indeed.

Having a good sofa to crash on is also a point of interest. Of all of the boats we have been on, our current boat is about the only one that provides this.

 

[BobM]

How bad is the back?

I have a bad disk at L5/S1 and found that I really couldn't tolerate running a tiller on long trips any more. A wheel has been much more tolerable. This isn't a big issue on a bigger boat as most if not all will have a wheel, however, if your back is really bad other things come into play. With $150-200K to play with, a desire to go south, a bad back, a powerboat background, 6" 4" etc...a catamaran is worth considering. It will have the room that you are used to, the head room and will be stable so a lurch won't impact you if sudden shifts are a problem for you. You may wish to consider things like electric winches too, which will make life easier.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Having a good sofa to crash on...

Here's another challenge you're gonna face: terminology.

It's a settee in the saloon. Probably shouldn't have any trouble with the saloon part (sometimes called a salon too just to confuse things!).

 

[darthvader]

Here's another challenge you're gonna face: terminology.

It's a settee in the saloon. Probably shouldn't have any trouble with the saloon part (sometimes called a salon too just to confuse things!).

Terminology. Ugh. I have been introduced enough to know this is going to be a stumbling block. Wait. That's something like a pulley only you trip over it on the deck right? Like since when is a line referred to as a sheet?

All of this makes for some fun when we go out with folks we know on the Cheasapeake. But the best terminology I've heard is that used by married couples approaching a mooring ball. I like this best because it applies to power and sail.

Sorry I missed the post on the back question.

It's bad enough I have to think about my actions. I've had an MRI and there are disks that are in very bad shape. I'll put it to you this way. One doctor asked me if I can still hold my water.
So when I sneeze I lean back into the chair with a straight back to brace myself. But I function just fine thank you.

 

[SeaRanch]

The below website is for an owner of a Catalina 387, he extensive research in looking for a sailboat.

I am sure you will find it interesting and informative.

Bill

http://www.lighthousetc.com.sg/Mei Poh.htm

 

[Manny]

If you don't have plans for this weekend, the Annapolis Sailboat show is a great place to get some ideas. Most if not all of the major manufacturers will have there models there. Plus it's a nice place to hang out.

http://www.usboat.com/us_sailboat_show.php

Manny

 

[Paul Mermelstein]

Dan:

I have a few sailing friends at 6'4" and 6'2". One has an older Bristol 41, one has a Jeanneau DS42, and one has a Beneteau 50. Note that these are rather large boats, which makes accomodating headroom and berth length easier. I am sure there are other boats out there that might suit your needs.

By the way, the US Boat Show starts this week in Annapolis. Go poke around.

 

[SanderO]

I would consider a split rig - smaller sails, shorter stick. Look for boats with high freeboard. But if you are doing the ditch, shallow draft might be another consideration.

If you've got a bad back and are up there in years consider electric or hydraulic winches and an electric windlass and a stout autopilot. If you can run these systems, you are not going to be sailing.

Whatever boat you find, make sure it is well laid out and comfortable. Look for medium to heavy displacement hulls.

Go used and get more value, but be prepared to dump a lot into it to redo and upgrade systems.

Good luck

 

[BobM]

Have your cake and eat it too

Regarding the back issue, I was just trying to get enough background to give good advice.

I suggest a Freedom. Stayless rig. Sloops have self tending jibs with full roach mains. My friends 28 almost sails itself. Ketches essentially have two main sails, so again, much easier to deal with.

Another good alternative is a Nonsuch. Both have better than average build quality and simple rigs, which would be easy on the back. Plus you get a boat big enough to take your height that is easier to sail. Both will hold their values very well.

Freedoms will be better performers than Nonsuches.

 

[Steve Dion]

First thing I would do is go to some boat shows and see what is available. You are probably not going to get a boat in that 38-45' range for $200k, but you can get an idea of what is generally available in the market.

One of the first boats that you may want to consider (considering your physical size and physical conditions) would be a Hunter 42' or 45' center cockpit. These boats have a lot of volumn and will probably not disappoint a "stink potter".

You will also want to look for electric winches on any boat that you purchase. If you have a bad back, you really do not want to do a lot of cranking.

There are a lot of other nice boats that will fit your needs and only YOU can make the ultimate decision. One thing that is for sure is that you can spend more money on this boat than you think because of the fuel savings. These large sail boats will probably consume less than 2 gal/hr. at full cruising speed. I assume that you are probably using 10-20 gal/hr. on your current vessel.

We currently consume about 50 gal. of fuel a year. Our boat is in the water year round and we make several trips that are anywhere from 15-60 miles in each direction every year. Quite often we need to motor one way or both, depending on the wind conditions.

Good luck in your search for information & the "right" vessel.