I get about 50-55 degrees from true wind. Closer than that and the jib tell tale starts to flap around. The main seems to be fine. I've been told it's the cut of the jib, which has a large belly in it. If I partially roll in the jib (reef it, in effect) it gets even worse.
Upwind performance
- Thread starter Quoddy
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at boat speed of 4 knots, wind speed at 10 knots true and a true wind angle of 55, the apparent wind angle is 40 which isn't all that bad for a boat with a water ballast and lack of sail controls. Now if you had sail all the sail controls, a fractional rig, with a deep fin keel, that is different as you should be able to get to about 33 degrees before you start loosing speed. I believe my best VMG is around 36-40 degrees off the apparent wind.
Always try to talk in apparent wind as that's the only constant and that's what the sails use. So many variables in dealing with true wind.
Always try to talk in apparent wind as that's the only constant and that's what the sails use. So many variables in dealing with true wind.
Testing
I tried increasing speed yesterday and was going to work with VMG but the wind was NW off the land, so one minute it was calm to 2k and the next 19k so no comparisons could be made.
I used true wind because the harbor has a narrow channel to the south which opens to a bay with the wind often to the south, sailing out means sailing directly into the true wind. With only a handheld wind instrument it’s difficult to determine apparent wind and true wind direction so I figured comparing tacks would be more accurate.
As for mast tuning fore and aft, I did have lee helm at lower heel angles so last year I increased mast rake from the hunter recommendation.
I tried posting the following comment from Sailing magazine to get comments and Clark and Terry did but my browsers are older and the thread never appeared in Today's posts. I couldn't see it, so I don't know how many others couldn't see it. This is part of the post and they seem to be saying as Clark interpreted it, that 60 to 65 is the best to be expected with this boat.
This is a quote from a “Sailing Magazine Boat Test” for the Hunter 260.
”The 260 is not exceptionally close-winded but crack her off a couple of points and she gets you there in fine style."
I will be looking forward to what others find when they GPS test how close to the wind they can actually sail.
Thanks again for the help.
I tried increasing speed yesterday and was going to work with VMG but the wind was NW off the land, so one minute it was calm to 2k and the next 19k so no comparisons could be made.
I used true wind because the harbor has a narrow channel to the south which opens to a bay with the wind often to the south, sailing out means sailing directly into the true wind. With only a handheld wind instrument it’s difficult to determine apparent wind and true wind direction so I figured comparing tacks would be more accurate.
As for mast tuning fore and aft, I did have lee helm at lower heel angles so last year I increased mast rake from the hunter recommendation.
I tried posting the following comment from Sailing magazine to get comments and Clark and Terry did but my browsers are older and the thread never appeared in Today's posts. I couldn't see it, so I don't know how many others couldn't see it. This is part of the post and they seem to be saying as Clark interpreted it, that 60 to 65 is the best to be expected with this boat.
This is a quote from a “Sailing Magazine Boat Test” for the Hunter 260.
”The 260 is not exceptionally close-winded but crack her off a couple of points and she gets you there in fine style."
I will be looking forward to what others find when they GPS test how close to the wind they can actually sail.
Thanks again for the help.
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Going to weather
I have to agree with everybody else here. There is definitely something wrong. A standard fin keel boat, not a full out racer, with reasonably decent sails should go to weather and tack
between 80 to 90 degrees. speed is difficult to judge. It depends on conditions, breeze, sea,
current ect: My recommendation; get an experienced sailor to go out with you to evaluate the problem
I have to agree with everybody else here. There is definitely something wrong. A standard fin keel boat, not a full out racer, with reasonably decent sails should go to weather and tack
between 80 to 90 degrees. speed is difficult to judge. It depends on conditions, breeze, sea,
current ect: My recommendation; get an experienced sailor to go out with you to evaluate the problem
I don't think he has a standard fin keel but a water ballast keel (I could be wrong here).
All depends on the numbers. If boat speed is 4 knots, wind is 10 knots, and true wind angle is 40 degree (80 / 2) then apparent wind angle is 28.87...most 26' boats, including many racers, can't do that. If boat speed is 4 knots, true wind speed is 15 knots and true wind angle is 50 degrees (90 /2), then apparent wind angle is 40 degrees which is do-able on most boats. So I think you understand that it's important to know the exact numbers to be able to judge effeciency of a boat's performance.
I admit I've never really understood this well. I use the angle of the telltail on my windward shroud as an approximation of my angle to the wind.
The US Sailing website will calculate apparent wind for you but I found this excellent discussion on this subject by Steve Colgate at: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/racing-articles/20644-understanding-apparent-wind.html
Not sure I've got it down pat yet but at least I have a better idea of the difference between apparent and true wind and how to calculate it.
The US Sailing website will calculate apparent wind for you but I found this excellent discussion on this subject by Steve Colgate at: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/racing-articles/20644-understanding-apparent-wind.html
Not sure I've got it down pat yet but at least I have a better idea of the difference between apparent and true wind and how to calculate it.
Don't despair, learn how to trim your sails, with my setup I have to move my Jib snatch blocks back nearly even with the leading edge of the cockpit and set them inboard of the toe rail for upwind. My boat wants to point into the wind close to a 2 o'clock or 10 o'clock position. For down wind I move the blocks to outside the toe rail and to a more forward position....
Last evening, I knew I needed a 4 hour broad reach to go home. I checked the wind direction and I knew where the sweet spot would be..I was in a hurry so I charted where to pickup the 1st leg of that cruise and motored there. I setup for it and has a delightful trip home and was visited by 3 pods of dolphins and had a wonderful sunset to boot.
Good luck with learning about your boat....you might look around to you peers and see who has sailing experiences and get a second hand out there as you take on your challenges.
-Mac
Re: Testing
Lee Helm. Well, I see that they had some recommendations for you to correc that, but the fact that it was ever a Lee Helm is not good.
Make sure you are not over sheeting. Just because you are trying to sail close to the wind, doesn't always mean you should have the boom at mid-ship and the Genny as tight as it can be. Look at how others set sail, and then pay attention to the boats that are moving well. Is the Lee Helm gone?
Lee Helm. Well, I see that they had some recommendations for you to correc that, but the fact that it was ever a Lee Helm is not good.
Make sure you are not over sheeting. Just because you are trying to sail close to the wind, doesn't always mean you should have the boom at mid-ship and the Genny as tight as it can be. Look at how others set sail, and then pay attention to the boats that are moving well. Is the Lee Helm gone?
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