In moderate seas and 10-15 knot winds, how close to the true wind can you count on sailing while maintaining reasonable speed?
Upwind performance
- Thread starter Quoddy
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Depends very much on the boat.
Approximately 45 degrees off the true wind. Precise answers will depend on the boat, sails and crew.
Approximately 45 degrees off the true wind. Precise answers will depend on the boat, sails and crew.
Quoddy this is a very boat design dependent variable. With my Ericson that has a deep fin keel and inboard shrouds I can point as high as 30°(apparent) in moderate winds. I can go a touch faster if I bear off a few degrees.
Shroud location, keel design, CBs, beam , sail cut/condition, skipper, rig tune, etc can all affect this.
I don't care much about true wind direction. Apparent is what you are trimming to.
Shroud location, keel design, CBs, beam , sail cut/condition, skipper, rig tune, etc can all affect this.
I don't care much about true wind direction. Apparent is what you are trimming to.
Upwind nonperformance
I recognize the boat design factor and that is kind of what I was looking for. But actually I want to know how frustrated I should be with our H260 that I can’t seem to move above 55-60 degrees.
I recognize the boat design factor and that is kind of what I was looking for. But actually I want to know how frustrated I should be with our H260 that I can’t seem to move above 55-60 degrees.
Very.
Is this 55-60 apparent? I doubt this boat cannot point higher. Sorry but it could be you:neutral:
Is this a masthead rig? Are you using both sails? The biggest mistake I see when people say they cannot point high and maintain speed is bad location of genoa lead blocks(generally on masthead rigs)
Not all manufacturers create polars for all their models. I would be surprised if Hunter had polars for this model. That is something you would expect from a higher end racing boat company like J.
That's 55-60 degrees from true wind ? i.e. You tack through 110-120 degrees ? That's terrible.
There is a long list of things that could impact pointing.
- Is the rig tuned well ?
- Are the sails bagged out ?
- Does your boat have a shoal keel ?
- Do you have a dirty bottom ?
If you can find polars, they will tell you what you should be able to do. Is there a Hunter 260 group somewhere that might be able to give you comparison data.
Speed?
Thanks for helping me out on this.
Hunter doesn’t publish polars.
I got my info from comparing COG on port and starboard tacks under steady wind direction and dividing by two. The rig is fractional 110 jib with centerboard with a relatively clean bottom, sails 5yrs old, rig is tuned with loos gauge. The twist is top batten parallel to the boom and all telltales flying, a few degrees of weather helm, main only or jib and main. I have tried combinations of halyard and outhaul tensions. My speed is in the low 4k with 15 degrees of heel.
At this point the only thing I can think of, now that it looks like I should be doing much better, is my speed is to low and I have the increase it and accept a greater amount of heel.
Thanks for helping me out on this.
Hunter doesn’t publish polars.
I got my info from comparing COG on port and starboard tacks under steady wind direction and dividing by two. The rig is fractional 110 jib with centerboard with a relatively clean bottom, sails 5yrs old, rig is tuned with loos gauge. The twist is top batten parallel to the boom and all telltales flying, a few degrees of weather helm, main only or jib and main. I have tried combinations of halyard and outhaul tensions. My speed is in the low 4k with 15 degrees of heel.
At this point the only thing I can think of, now that it looks like I should be doing much better, is my speed is to low and I have the increase it and accept a greater amount of heel.
Something don't sound right
There is something way out of whack here. First your talking two seperate things here. The slow ?? boat speed and the inability to point. In 10 to 15 knots, making 4 knots and 15 degrees of heel. Think about that. My first thought with those numbers would be the sails are sheeted in too tight, making more heel than forward motion. I'm not going to start a guessing game, but those numbers just don't add up for me. On a reach or fairly close hauled, in those conditions, and that much heel, I would expect to be making close to hull speed.
There is something way out of whack here. First your talking two seperate things here. The slow ?? boat speed and the inability to point. In 10 to 15 knots, making 4 knots and 15 degrees of heel. Think about that. My first thought with those numbers would be the sails are sheeted in too tight, making more heel than forward motion. I'm not going to start a guessing game, but those numbers just don't add up for me. On a reach or fairly close hauled, in those conditions, and that much heel, I would expect to be making close to hull speed.
Re: Speed?
I think the question was about fully close hauled, not on a reach.
Did you have current against you ? That would skew the numbers using COG. Compare heading as well.
Since you don't have polars from Hunter, you should do your own performance testing for best windward VMG. Take a GPS and set a waypoint about 1000 miles directly upwind. Then display VMG to that waypoint. Now test out several different angles to the wind and changes in trim to see what gives you best VMG to that waypoint.
Does your boat have water ballast ? Is it full ? Can you get more rail meat ? Your trim sounds about right.
I think the question was about fully close hauled, not on a reach.
Did you have current against you ? That would skew the numbers using COG. Compare heading as well.
Since you don't have polars from Hunter, you should do your own performance testing for best windward VMG. Take a GPS and set a waypoint about 1000 miles directly upwind. Then display VMG to that waypoint. Now test out several different angles to the wind and changes in trim to see what gives you best VMG to that waypoint.
Does your boat have water ballast ? Is it full ? Can you get more rail meat ? Your trim sounds about right.
Quoddy, something is not right. We have a 97h26 and sail on an inland lake, so no current involved. I know I can point higher than that, without that much heel. This weekend I will do some testing with my GPS and let you know the results. Chris
I consider myself lucky at 50-55 degrees with this boat. With no jib fairleads, traveller or backstay adjustments and 6 year old sails I consider myself lucky to point that high. I typically am more concerned with keeping boat speed up.
In some ways, it's more like sailing a canoe...
I have not really focused on this lately but next time I go out I'll see what I can do.
In some ways, it's more like sailing a canoe...
I have not really focused on this lately but next time I go out I'll see what I can do.
The only boat
The only boat I have ever been on that wouldn't point any higher than 50 or 55 degrees was a full keel, 39' ketch. It would sail at 50 degrees apparent, but was slowing down by that point. Never been on any other type of boats that wouldn't point any higher than this. While I can't say I could ever sail at 30 degrees on any boat I have owned, and keep up decent boat speed, have always been able to get to around 40 degrees or so, and keep the boat speed up pretty good. I still think there is something we are all missing on this one.
The only boat I have ever been on that wouldn't point any higher than 50 or 55 degrees was a full keel, 39' ketch. It would sail at 50 degrees apparent, but was slowing down by that point. Never been on any other type of boats that wouldn't point any higher than this. While I can't say I could ever sail at 30 degrees on any boat I have owned, and keep up decent boat speed, have always been able to get to around 40 degrees or so, and keep the boat speed up pretty good. I still think there is something we are all missing on this one.
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