Another Keel Failure !!
- Thread starter Maine Sail
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I was in the yard today working on my boat. I met a guy who just bought a Tartan 37. It had end grain balsa below the waterline in the hull. Well it used to in some parts, there was alot of rot damage that the guy has to repair. From the boot stripe up it looked beautiful though, fully loaded for cruising.
I am trying to strengthen my keel attachment. I ground away 1/4" to 3/8" , down to bare glass, and instead of refairing it with marine putty, I laid in biaxial cloth 1/2" along the sides and an 1" thick on the front and back where the fairing putty had cracks in it when I hauled it.
The yard recommended widening the keel joint all the way around the keel and then shoot it full of 5200. They said they were meant to just crack and that you had to have something flexible in there. That just doesn't sound right. I hope my repair doesn't crack when they lift it up. We'll see.
I am trying to strengthen my keel attachment. I ground away 1/4" to 3/8" , down to bare glass, and instead of refairing it with marine putty, I laid in biaxial cloth 1/2" along the sides and an 1" thick on the front and back where the fairing putty had cracks in it when I hauled it.
The yard recommended widening the keel joint all the way around the keel and then shoot it full of 5200. They said they were meant to just crack and that you had to have something flexible in there. That just doesn't sound right. I hope my repair doesn't crack when they lift it up. We'll see.
There are lots of boats with fin keels that have been raced hard for many years and are still attached. Since this is the second J/80 to suffer this fate, one has to begin to wonder about these boats. I know Js have good reputations, but that does not mean they are exempt from design flaws.
i think the idea that they hit something is unlikely. If one hit a sea creature hard enough to tear off your keel, i think you would know you hit something.
i think the idea that they hit something is unlikely. If one hit a sea creature hard enough to tear off your keel, i think you would know you hit something.
I have never seen a boat company do testing except the Hobie 33 crash tests and even those were not taken to failure like and airframe would be to find the safe hours of flight time ,landing cycles ect
I don't know if you've seen this yet.
Excalibur update - Keel failure - Builder cleared
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/01/2532165.htm
Excalibur update - Keel failure - Builder cleared
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/01/2532165.htm
I'm only speculating and requoting what was in the article. They will not know until they recover the boat and inspect the damage. During the Vendee Globe several of the racers reported hitting sea mammals and hearing a whump. One boat reported hitting a submerged container that fell off a ship and tore the bulb off his keel and then turtled the boat.
Dave (Servais) was setting us up on a wave, reaching across it, when we heard a whuump,"
Yeah, I see what you mean now. But I think that one was the "director" of the company and one was his employee... they are both probably considered boat "Builders" though. You are probably right that he was likely following directions from his boss...
When you are designing for performance in competition you make the margins for safety as narrow as posible. Then if something breaks you know that the margin was too narrow and you strengthen that place. The extremes that are accepted for the racing world should not be used as standards for pleasure sailing boats. When the weather turns to stink it is comforting to know that everything on your boat is as strong as it is practical to make it.
Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote a clever piece that I like to think of as a standard for how things ought to be done.
http://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/owh/shay.html
Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote a clever piece that I like to think of as a standard for how things ought to be done.
http://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/owh/shay.html
Ross - I agree. i don't think the weekend racer ( and occasional distance} should have to constantly be on the lookout for a weakened keel, unless they run aground. Production boats should be strong enough not to just have the keel fall off after 15 or 20 years. You don't here this happening to older Catalinas, Tartens, Sabres, Hunters, etc. We now have heard of two J/80's and that has to raise some eyebrows.
Well, it also depends on how many boats there are. If there are only 50 boats, and two have their keels fall off.. that's one thing, but if there are 30,000 boats and two have their keels fall off, then that's a different story entirely. 
About 1050 -2 J80s and with Jboats repair programs on the 105/109/120/?/? keels sumps i am missing why this is such a surprise
I mean its there legacy even all the early J24s had to have a epoxy repair kit installed in the sump in place of the vermiculite some idiot thought would hold a keel
J80s and with Jboats repair programs on the 105/109/120/?/? keels sumps i am missing why this is such a surpriseI mean its there legacy even all the early J24s had to have a epoxy repair kit installed in the sump in place of the vermiculite some idiot thought would hold a keel
Well
The J80/J105/J109 were a family of boats that have had issues i cant post pictures from work but will tonight
The big boats did not lose keels they just got really lucky and did a QUIET repiar program
You can still buy the J24 repiar kit for 750 dollars as i have a friends whos boat that never got the recall
The J80/J105/J109 were a family of boats that have had issues i cant post pictures from work but will tonight
The big boats did not lose keels they just got really lucky and did a QUIET repiar program
You can still buy the J24 repiar kit for 750 dollars as i have a friends whos boat that never got the recall
Verdict is in on Cittandini, guilty of manslaughter
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25278440-2702,00.html?from=public_rss
I found these Jboat keels pretty easy on SA
J105
J120
keel being beefed up
NONE of these keels fell off but they were sure getting close
All of these boats were RACED hard and they guys i have raced with think nothing of punching through most anything you could think of to the point it freaking hurts just to be sitting on the rail
BUT on the other hand Zzzoom is a 1970 boat with a 7' fin keel that shows no sign of problems BUT it is a solid glass hull and it was raced hard core IOR buy the first owner and just as hard buy the current owner i sail on it with for a total of 39 years of racing with 270 races just from the current owner
J105
J120
keel being beefed up
NONE of these keels fell off but they were sure getting close
All of these boats were RACED hard and they guys i have raced with think nothing of punching through most anything you could think of to the point it freaking hurts just to be sitting on the rail
BUT on the other hand Zzzoom is a 1970 boat with a 7' fin keel that shows no sign of problems BUT it is a solid glass hull and it was raced hard core IOR buy the first owner and just as hard buy the current owner i sail on it with for a total of 39 years of racing with 270 races just from the current owner
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