Anchors: Opinions requested

[Prime Time]

Type of Anchor

Danforth Hi-tensile 25 lbs and Delta 14 lbs.
Both with 10 feet of chain then nylon.

If you dig it in with the engine in reverse, put out plenty of scope, things should be fine.

...what COMBINATION of anchors do you carry?

On my boat, it's a Rocna and a Fortress.

Traded the Delta that came with the boat for a really good bottle of wine. Felt I got the best of that deal.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Ten feet of chain is a JOKE

and seriously undersized. The chain should be at least the length of your boat.

 

[Shippy]

On our H356, I debated this question too. The boat came with the delta 22 and 15 ft chain and 100 ft rope and it only took one anchoring for me to know it was woefully undersized. I quickly traded the 22 for a 35 delta, added 50 ft of chain and 150 ft of rope and added a FX 23 fortress with the old chain/rope as backup. The 35 was ok but I did drag on one occasion in the middle of the night.

Last year, I did my research, read what Maine Sail and others had to say and purchased the Manson Supreme. I went with the 45 lb model and used the 50 ft chain and 150 rope that was on the 35 lb delta. The delta was added to the stern locker next to the fortress just in case I hated the manson. The manson actually took about 2 weeks longer to come in so I actually put it in the bow roller on the morning we were leaving for a 14 day cruise down the bay. I had no time to test and experiment with the anchor before we left. We anchored out 12 of the 14 days and the anchor was a dream come true. Even during a couple of t-storms with 40 kt winds and 180-270 degress shifts, we never budged. On one occasion, at least 6 boats dragged and we never moved.

I haven't tested the Rocna but I understand the two are comparable. For the money, I love my Manson and sleep very well at night.

 

[Prime Time]

What so funny? No arguing with success...

On my dad's Bristol 40, (hull #5, we are the original owners) we have 10 feet of chain and nylon for the rest of the scope on a CQR. 35+ yrs of anchoring including in over 70 knots of wind. Never dragged once, no BS. We anchor in mud and sand here in the North East. Set the anchor and dig it in with full reverse.

Remember, what is the purpose of chain? Preventing chafe from the bottom, changing the angle of pull, and reducing scope requirements. IF chafe from the sea bottom is not an issue, as long as you use enough scope, more chain not needed. (IMHO)

and seriously undersized. The chain should be at least the length of your boat.

 

[Stu Jackson]

A good anchor and good night's sleep:

PRICELESS :dance:

 

[shemandr]

Again thanks for taking the trouble to reply. Some have asked me questions and they deserve my answer even though the discussion has moved past these points. So.......
Dave in Sandusky: No grass - the brown tide took care of that. It seems I am a bit stingy with the scope. I used to sail a bit from Sandusky - Bay Week, Snow Flurries etc. A great place.
Maine Sail: I suspected the Ronca criticism of the Manson Supreme was overdone. The propondurance of opinion is that I don't put out enough scope. I couldn't run the video. Have you seen the XYZ video? Its impressive - but I think that anchor would perform poorly on a hard bottom. I'm inclined to take your opinion. Your command of the subject is notable. I did see your posts re the boat on the beach and also, I believe, about leaving your anchor on the bow while moored. Good stuff.
Stu: I did use a bridle once and it was reasonable effective. I am a bit nervous about all auxilliary equipment preferring to KISS. I don't want to untangle a mess while my boat is heading for a beach or rocks. At least with just an anchor you can pull it up and start the motor. Same goes for a sentinel. I was good at math - terrible at arthrimatic. I thought 3:1 with chain and then some would be adequate. Its seems most disagree.
Seadaddler: Same boat, same chain, same anchor, same anchorages - you must be right - we need more scope. Do you have a swivel on the rode? Enjoy Fl. You're still killing me. It was 12 degrees this AM.
SailingDog: You're right again. Its not an all chain rode. Its fifty feet of chain and then some more three strand nylon until I think I have enough out. Evidently therein lies the problem.
Jibes 138: Not really the same as an anchor on the bottom since the anchor on the beach is pulled from more horizontal, I think. The 700 lb is interesting for securing a boat in a storm but I'm just trying to sleep overnight. I would consider such a system to hold my boat off the dock in a blow.
Newly anonymous: This isn't real cruising. One or two nights in sheltered anchorages with good holding (Where previously I had no problem with my short scope arithmetic) every weekend. Even if it was box wine you got the best end of that, In my opinion. As I've said before, I thought my Danforth was better than the Delta - until the shaft bent. Note that the flukes didn't break out.
Tim R.: I think we're going to have the same anchors on board.

See this discussion for some discussion of shock:
C:\Users\shemandr\Documents\Artemis\Anchor\New Generation Anchors - Explained, Compared and Rated -.mht
Comments?

 

[seadaddler]

Cold in Florida

It's not really very warm this week at all it's having a hard time reaching a high
of 60 here,another day or two of cool weather and they say it will reach 70.
OK we all make mistakes with scope like I did in Sag Harbor and went into town
for dinner and ice cream until we starting coming back out in our dinghy and wholly shit where is our boat,it dragged almost to the beach,I made a flying jump on to her started the engine and motored into deeper water,my wife was left in the dinghy not too happy but after seeing our boat was safe she learned real fast how to work the outboard.
It's better to put out more scope and be safe,mark your anchor and put the scope 5 to 1 dept if it's really windy 7 to 1 ,good luck hope spring comes soon.
Nick

 

[Ross]

I know of a few anchorages on the rivers feeding the chesapeake that are so well sheltered that 70 knot winds from the north would barely ripple the water. But a 70 knot wind from the south would make that lovely anchorage a lee shore and then all bets come off the table. Some people probably have had a lifetime of success anchoring with marginal ground tackle because they were very careful to choose their anchorages not because their ground tackle was wonderful.

 

[MoonSailer]

Ross you are right IMHO the anchorage is more important than the anchor. That said I have had great success with a 33# claw on my 32' boat. I plan to buy another Claw maybe a 22# just to make it easier on my back. Here on a lake it is easy to find a snug anchorage with 360 degree protection. Down on the gulf coast 180 degree protection is more common.

 

[jibes138]

Anchor Bouyancy

If an anchor weighs 35 pounds and it displaces 16 pounds of water then its' effective weight is only 19 pounds.
Make sure you put markers in your rode or in some way mark the rode so you know your scope not just guess at it.
I can't imagine a real danforth having the shank bend. I had a real danforth and I remember it had a forged shank. The knock offs had plate stock stampings and I'm not surprised those would bend.
My CQR doesn't sit well on my bow roller, if it is up against the roller the tip hits the bow of the boat. Will a rocna or manson behave the same way? Are they similar dimensions and angles to a CQR?

 

[Ross]

If an anchor weighs 35 pounds and it displaces 16 pounds of water then its' effective weight is only 19 pounds.

If an iron alloy anchor weighs 35 pounds it will displace 5 pounds of water.

 

[Bill Roosa]

not effective, actual "weight"

That is why you don't make good anchors out of wood or aluminum for that matter.

And I'll bet Ross has mystified a few in how he can tell how much water a 5 pound anchor he has never even seen displaces.

 

[Franklin]

If a man fell off a building yelling Bulwagga, Bulwagga, Bulwagga, would anybody throw him a line?

I do find it interesting that I am the only one on this board who not only has one, but feels they are good anchors and would like to have one.

Maybe it's because true geniuses are rarely understood

 

[Ross]

If a man fell off a building yelling Bulwagga, Bulwagga, Bulwagga, would anybody throw him a line?

I do find it interesting that I am the only one on this board who not only has one, but feels they are good anchors and would like to have one.

Maybe it's because true geniuses are rarely understood

I have always thought that they look like three fluke fisherman anchors. They should work for the same reason a fisherman anchor works and be subject to fouling just as is a fisherman.

 

[Maine Sail]

If a man fell off a building yelling Bulwagga, Bulwagga, Bulwagga, would anybody throw him a line?

I do find it interesting that I am the only one on this board who not only has one, but feels they are good anchors and would like to have one.

Maybe it's because true geniuses are rarely understood

I believe they are a great anchor!! Never read one bad compliant other than the look and stow ability issues but then again the Manson Supreme and Rocna have stow ability issues too on certain bow pulpit boats....

 

[Scott B]

More scope cannot make up for a weak anchor. We were hit last year with 52 knot winds, shifted 120 deg within minutes after not setting the anchor properly and only having 3.7:1 scope. The gusts were so strong they were pushing us over sideways. Not only did the anchor dig in after the sudden shift, we did not budge an inch in the hour or so of the thunderstorm that came through. This was with a 33 lbs. Rocna, 50 ft. of chain and another 50 ft. of rode in 25 ft. of water.

 

[sailingdog]

my only concern with the bulwagga, aside from the obvious stowage and fouling issues, is that the moving stock seems to be a possible point of failure. The galvanization would probably wear at the pivot point fairly quickly, leading to corrosion.

 

[sailingdog]

Luck probably plays a big part too.

I know of a few anchorages on the rivers feeding the chesapeake that are so well sheltered that 70 knot winds from the north would barely ripple the water. But a 70 knot wind from the south would make that lovely anchorage a lee shore and then all bets come off the table. Some people probably have had a lifetime of success anchoring with marginal ground tackle because they were very careful to choose their anchorages not because their ground tackle was wonderful.

 

[Maine Sail]

my only concern with the bulwagga, is that the moving stock seems to be a possible point of failure. The galvanization would probably wear at the pivot point fairly quickly, leading to corrosion.

I have never heard of one failing and Franklin rode out hurricane Ike, backwards, with 100+ knot winds with his. Using that reasoning many CQR pivot points should have failed but I've yet to see one... Galvanizing on ALL anchors wears but if you are not using it as a permanent mooring you should see any degradation well before a catastrophic failure..

Riding Out Ike on A Bullwagga (LINK)

 

[MoonSailer]

http://rtmalik.com/files/TABLEOFDENSITYFORSOMECOMMONMATERIALS.doc

Ross proabably used a table simular to this link. Of course water is 1 and you would have to look up seawater's density. HMMMM a platinum plated steel anchor. All the strength of steel and density of platinum...and should be rustproof too....maybe a little too expensive.