Hello, am looking at buying a 1976 oday 22, shoal keel, mast head rigged. From others I hear it does not point well, slow, etc. What modifications have people done to increase performance, maybe even going so far as to install a drop down centerboard like the later models? I like the interior layout, looks of the boat, not that happy with cat 22, so what can be done to make a good boat better?
O'day 22 modifications
- Thread starter fourbtgait
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I don't think that it would be very easy to convert this O'Day 22 into a keel centerboard, nor would it be very practical. I think that your best bet would be to buy a new set of sails for this boat if it doesn't already have new sails, and you'll probably see a big difference. The O'Day 22 is still a nice little boat for cruising. O'Day built a lot of them, so they are very popular. Last August we met a guy out on the river who was sailing one, and it looked and sailed very well. He told us that his boat was in deplorable condition when he bought it, and he fixed it up and gave it a new paint job. He also ordered some new sails for it from a guy in Florida at a great price, and he's very happy with them. That boat seemed to glide along beautiful when we saw it sailing on the river. If you want a boat with looks, comfort, and cruise-ability, this is the boat for you, but if you're looking for speed, check out the J boats.
Joe
I have the same boat in a 1975 model, I don't see how you could make it a centerboard.
While we have not sailed it yet, we know it won't point well...on well...in life...some rain must fall!
Jack
While we have not sailed it yet, we know it won't point well...on well...in life...some rain must fall!
Jack
Not having the boat to explore yet, I would imagine to either put in daggerboard in a newly built fiberglass slot going thru the keel, from what I have read already, it is accessible area, or maybe better to build a fiberglass slot on the bottom of the keel and install a swing or drop down extension, such as in a wedge shape. Neither would be easy after the fact, but not hard to do if one is familiar with boatwork.
If you have this ability, or know of someone who does, I would say "go for it." Nothing is impossible if you have the expertise, and inventive skills that it takes to do a job like this. I'm not too keen on dagger boards because they don't swing up when they hit an object. Here's a few pictures of my O'Day 222 keel/centerboard set-up that should give you some idea of what is needed. I measured my board to be 44-3/4" long X 12" wide. My keel slot depth is approximately 13" deep. There's a smaller slot for the pendant line sheave that could only have been installed inside the cabin, and it appears to be glassed in with it's backup plate. The is where the pendant line pipe comes in from the cockpit step at the companionway. If you need additional pics, let me know. If you decide to tackle this project, please post some pictures of it on this site.
Joe
Joe
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fourbtgait,
I agree with Trinkky-Dinky 100%.. The cost is high, the modification needs to be done safely. Boats are designed to be a cruiser, a racer, to be used off-shore. It's been my experience when you change one thing it off sets something else. I would think you would need to contact a marine architect to make the proper modification. There does NOT seem to be a shortage of good used boats on the market these days.
"Hello, am looking at buying a 1976 oday 22,"
The 222 O'Day comes with all the improvements, they were built between 1984 & and I beleive 1988. I have seen them being offered at reasonable prices. They are definatly well made. I think I have a pix of the 222 shoal keel and centerboard..
I agree with Trinkky-Dinky 100%.. The cost is high, the modification needs to be done safely. Boats are designed to be a cruiser, a racer, to be used off-shore. It's been my experience when you change one thing it off sets something else. I would think you would need to contact a marine architect to make the proper modification. There does NOT seem to be a shortage of good used boats on the market these days.
"Hello, am looking at buying a 1976 oday 22,"
The 222 O'Day comes with all the improvements, they were built between 1984 & and I beleive 1988. I have seen them being offered at reasonable prices. They are definatly well made. I think I have a pix of the 222 shoal keel and centerboard..
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It was just an open question, I understand the dynamics of the original boats, the implicaitons of the work involved. I have more than a mediocre construction ability of boats. I was curious to see if any one had attempted it and the out come of it. As for the number of boats availible, yes, there are a lot, depending on where you live or if one is willing to travel long distances to look and possibly purchase. For us, Seattle is 5-6 hours one way, nothing to the east, south or north for even farther. So availibility is relative.
Here are some additional pics of my 222 centerboard set-up. The black hose in the first and third picture is my bilge pump hose which is taped to the centerboard pendant line pipe. The pipe goes to the sheave block under that square enclosure where the rug is.
Joe
Joe
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I would not suggest trying to convert a 1972-78 O'DAY 22 from Keel to Keel/CB. Is it impossible? NO! Is it practical? Not really! The 22 keel is molded fiberglass with lead ballast glassed inside, so you would need to somehow cut a slot in the keel/ballast combination (and thereby reduce the weight of the ballast, weight that would need to be added back) which would be messy at best. Then glass in some form of CB trunk to house the CB, after building a CB. If done at the factory while the boat was being built, or better yet using a bare hull bought from the factory...it might have been an interesting experiment!
I used to own an O'DAY Widgeon (12') and sailed her a lot, I felt that I became very skilled at getting the most out of her using the original (and 20 year-old) sails. I once had a 22 out point me and sail by.......well ,that did it! I ordered a new mainsail soon after (should have replaced jib too). The 22 is not going to outpoint a J-22 or any "racing" design, she was not built for that although a few 22 owners have done OK in racing. With sails in good condition, a properly tuned rig (based on the owner's manual, you don't need to tune her like a racer!), and a skilled skipper, the 22 will sail as well as any similar boat. Remember, the 22 is a typical 1970's trailerable sailboat, ease of trailering and stepping/unstepping the mast were high on hte list of design parameters I'm sure! Were I designing the 22, I'd have given her a taller mast and a K/CB from the start.....but O'DAY introduced a darn good compromise boat in 1972 and I'm sure that keeping the price reasonable was also important...thus the short mast and shallow, fixed keel. I guess that by 1979 the added cost of building the boat as a K/CB design could be justified and starting in 1980 the taller sailplan came out. Perhaps as a lead-in to the 222??
I would think that an early 22 will sail just fine as she is, maybe pointing 50-60 deg off the wind instead of a raceboat's 40-45 deg pointing ability....but she will point OK. Many 22 owners have switched to an overlapping Genoa instead of the working jib (most also added a furler with the genoa) and this might help compensate for the fairly small mainsail of the masthead-rig 22. The 22 also needs to be sailed "flat" ie: with little heeling to maximize the bite of the shallow keel, one possibility that might help (and would be less costly and labor-intensive than adding a CB) is to make the keel deeper by laminating an extension below the keel (glass over wood or foam, maybe some kind of ballast as well to stiffen the boat?). Yes ,it would mean deeper draft and mean it will be harder to float the boat on/off a trailer......but it is an idea.
BTW, Joe.. I enjoy seeing all the pictures of your boat! It is becoming a great reference just in case I ever do move up to a 222 (or at least a 192?). I need to start looking at all the pics I have of my DS II........maybe post a few?
I used to own an O'DAY Widgeon (12') and sailed her a lot, I felt that I became very skilled at getting the most out of her using the original (and 20 year-old) sails. I once had a 22 out point me and sail by.......well ,that did it! I ordered a new mainsail soon after (should have replaced jib too). The 22 is not going to outpoint a J-22 or any "racing" design, she was not built for that although a few 22 owners have done OK in racing. With sails in good condition, a properly tuned rig (based on the owner's manual, you don't need to tune her like a racer!), and a skilled skipper, the 22 will sail as well as any similar boat. Remember, the 22 is a typical 1970's trailerable sailboat, ease of trailering and stepping/unstepping the mast were high on hte list of design parameters I'm sure! Were I designing the 22, I'd have given her a taller mast and a K/CB from the start.....but O'DAY introduced a darn good compromise boat in 1972 and I'm sure that keeping the price reasonable was also important...thus the short mast and shallow, fixed keel. I guess that by 1979 the added cost of building the boat as a K/CB design could be justified and starting in 1980 the taller sailplan came out. Perhaps as a lead-in to the 222??
I would think that an early 22 will sail just fine as she is, maybe pointing 50-60 deg off the wind instead of a raceboat's 40-45 deg pointing ability....but she will point OK. Many 22 owners have switched to an overlapping Genoa instead of the working jib (most also added a furler with the genoa) and this might help compensate for the fairly small mainsail of the masthead-rig 22. The 22 also needs to be sailed "flat" ie: with little heeling to maximize the bite of the shallow keel, one possibility that might help (and would be less costly and labor-intensive than adding a CB) is to make the keel deeper by laminating an extension below the keel (glass over wood or foam, maybe some kind of ballast as well to stiffen the boat?). Yes ,it would mean deeper draft and mean it will be harder to float the boat on/off a trailer......but it is an idea.
BTW, Joe.. I enjoy seeing all the pictures of your boat! It is becoming a great reference just in case I ever do move up to a 222 (or at least a 192?). I need to start looking at all the pics I have of my DS II........maybe post a few?
OH, I just remembered....one of my friends owns a 1973 22 and keeps telling me that the draft is 4'3" (??), since every one of the fixed keel 22s that I've seen draws more like 1'11", I'm wondering if his boat was modified at some point. I hope to get a chance to see his boat while she is hauled out this Winter (in Swansea, MA) to check this out. I should see him tomorrow and will try to ask how he feels about the pointing ability of his boat.
Sunbird,
I agree with a lot of what you have to say. I've corresponded with Fourbtgait and suggested to him about installing a wing keel and a CDI Roller Furler. You never know what kind of problems that you're going to run into when you make big changes to these boats. It's like Chuck said, " Each change offsets another." I agree with him on this. I just posted some pictures on this site last week under "Owner's Picture Albums" under "Trinkka's Mods." Check them out.
Regards,
Joe
I agree with a lot of what you have to say. I've corresponded with Fourbtgait and suggested to him about installing a wing keel and a CDI Roller Furler. You never know what kind of problems that you're going to run into when you make big changes to these boats. It's like Chuck said, " Each change offsets another." I agree with him on this. I just posted some pictures on this site last week under "Owner's Picture Albums" under "Trinkka's Mods." Check them out.
Regards,
Joe
As I also agree with what Sunbird has written, that is the type of feedback I was/am looking for. One should look at general items first, new sails, tweaking rigging, etc before attempting a major modifications to the structure itself. I have looked into the aspect of wing keels, but there is contention there from even designers. Note also in the original O'day literature that they also say if one feels it is needed, the original ballast of 600 pounds be increased and gives information to doing such.
It is easy during the winter time while shoveling snow (we have had over 5 1/2' so far) to think and imagine things, to go beyond the norm and try to improve things. Would I actually go through with doing such a radical change? Maybe, I have figured the cost of doing such at about $600 for materials to do the modification, not that much, but how much is the boat worth in the first place? I have thought of just building a new boat from ground up, like an amphibette or such design, but want to get back on the water sooner than later. So yes, I would accept the failings first, play with it, minor tweaks and hope that others write and describe such tweaks they have made, traveler types, placement, etc.
It is easy during the winter time while shoveling snow (we have had over 5 1/2' so far) to think and imagine things, to go beyond the norm and try to improve things. Would I actually go through with doing such a radical change? Maybe, I have figured the cost of doing such at about $600 for materials to do the modification, not that much, but how much is the boat worth in the first place? I have thought of just building a new boat from ground up, like an amphibette or such design, but want to get back on the water sooner than later. So yes, I would accept the failings first, play with it, minor tweaks and hope that others write and describe such tweaks they have made, traveler types, placement, etc.
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