Catalina Status

[jaysweet]

I love this idea, but do you think it’s possible to make the economics work?

The true answer is: I don't really know. But we're creeping towards a world (or "sailing world") where most of the domestic boat manufacturers have gone out of business, and we're awash in old fiberglass boats that are sitting up on jackstands in crowded boatyards, probably never to see the water again. I went down to Deltaville VA the other weekend to see a boat (which was in the water in a slip), but oh man: I've never seen more boats on the hard in my life than I saw in this boatyard!!! I mean, I'm in a marina in the mouth of the Patapsco that has more than its share of boats on dry land (at least half of which will probably never sail again), but I've never seen the kind of numbers I saw down in VA. My instincts are that there are plenty of nice 35-40 foot boats that could be had for yard storage fees down there. Why would you want to lay up a boat from scratch if you could start with one of these (former) beauties, do some sanding, some gelcoat, some systems work, and have a nearly new boat? I mean, I'm not paying for it, but it does seem like an opportunity.

 

[NYSail]

Regarding the collapse of the new boat market: I know certain manufacturers have done quite a bit of refurbishing of their own boats. But maybe someone could run a factory that does nothing but refit older sailboats? They could do 2 slightly different types of work: 1) refit boats brought to them by current owners, and 2) buy boats for very cheap, refit them to a high standard, and sell them for nearly new prices. Presumably #1 could be done more efficiently in a factory and #2 would avoid one of the most difficult parts of new boat manufacture, which is laying up the hulls and decks. Maybe #2 would also help to fill in the down times when #1 gets slow, so they can keep their workers employed on a steady basis.

Also: add Caliber to my initial list of (more recently) failed US sailboat makers.

The fiberglass hull will last, the issue becomes the core. If the boats were solid fiberglass or impervious to water, refurbishing old boats would be a no brainer. A wet core equals a big investment.
But I like the idea!!

 

[jaysweet]

The fiberglass hull will last, the issue becomes the core. If the boats were solid fiberglass or impervious to water, refurbishing old boats would be a no brainer. A wet core equals a big investment.
But I like the idea!!

Fair enough: wet core replacement would be a big deal, so that's a good point. I suppose there are enough near derelict boats out there that you could pick and choose which to purchase for rehab?

 

[dlochner]

The point (or the hope) would be that the work could be done much more cheaply in a factory-like setting, where the labor is kept 100% employed all the time, compared to the DIY situation it's getting compared to, where someone takes 7 years to refit a boat in their spare time.

A huge difference between building a new boat and rehabbing one, is the work flow and sequence. When systems are installed in a new build there are no obstructions. The boat is built from the bilge up. Wiring runs, hose runs, and access to various parts of the boat are relatively unrestricted, work can be completed easily and quickly. In a major refit of an old boat, labor costs go up because as all DIY boat owners know, nothing is easily accessible. So something that might take an hour on a new build, takes 3 hours on refit.

One important part of a major refit is getting the hull looking good. Sanding, fairing, and painting a hull takes a lot of man hours. On a new build it goes much quicker, there is only minor repairs and polishing to get the hull fresh out of the mold looking good.

 

[pgandw]

The reality is that the economics don't work. Many of these boats have leaks that have caused the deck cores to rot. It's actually cheaper in most cases to make a new deck molding than to rip it apart, recore, and refinish. Raw materials are more for brand new, but labor is considerably more for recore. I don't know about the upper end, but at the trailerable end, if a recore/refinish is needed, the price to do it professionally brings the price of the recored boat up to the price of a new. As a customer, which would you choose?

Stuart buys sound hulls, and only half the deck is cored in a Mariner. Say Stuart buys a Mariner hull for $1K. It doesn't need recoring, but just the refurbishing (standing & running rigging, decent sails, cushions plus polishing, cleaning, and painting) is going to push the selling price above $12-15K, depending on what the buyer wants in the way of refurbishing. With the average condition used Mariner going for $3K (nice condition might get $5K), there are only a limited number of buyers willing to pay that much of a premium for refurbishing. And there are even fewer buyers for a new Mariner - $50K for a "sail away" package.

On the other hand, Rhodes 19s (use the same hull as Mariner, but keel instead of CB, cuddy instead of cabin, more complex rig) are actively raced. Therefore there are new Rhodes 19s sold every year, which keeps Stuart open. Another example: Flying Scots also sell new hulls every year because of demand from racers.

Fred W

 

[Blitz]

FYI - another example was The Cape Dory 36 being built with the same molds as the Robinhood 36 in Maine in the 90's. Also, after Superstorm Sandy I know of at least one that was repaired and updated at their facility in Georgetown, Maine. It is a beautiful boat but realize that it is for a select few who could afford it.

 

[jssailem]

While there are mechanical issues, like wet decks and mold, I think the real challenge is cultural. If you look at houses as an example, the market is busy with remodeling and upgrades. You tube and reality tv stars buying old homes, rebuilding them then selling them for gobs of money to customers who want a place to live.

The idea of a boat is too different than a place to call home. Butler made money because people with homes wanted the dream of getting away. He gave them their dream in an affordable package. A New to them boat. With new smell and the promise of fulfillment.

While there are dreamers who see an old boat and imagine themselves splashing through the water, the good old boat is a compromise with monetary limitations. Added to the problem are the limitations of scale. When rebuilding an old boat many of the challenges require one off solutions. This contributes to time consumption and labor expense.

Rebuilding my boat has been a labor of love. There is no way I’ll ever recover the time and financial expense I have consumed. Yet I’ve been more the compensated by the memories.

I’ve been reminded that memories don’t pay the bills. And to that I say, phooey! With a smile.

 

[rgranger]

This isn't an entirely new idea. About 15 years ago, I read From a Bare Hull, a book that was actually published back in 1975.

Amazon.com

The book tells the story of a man who purchased nothing more than a laid-up hull and built the entire boat from scratch. It was a major source of inspiration when I restored my Coronado 23. I gutted the boat down to the stringers and then rebuilt her from the ground up.