Anchor Selection and Bow Fit (kinda urgent)

[TrapperJohn]

Hate to be in a rush but I was reading some past threads here and elsewhere on anchoring last weekend and decided I wanted to check out my options again. I know I need a new anchor roller and anchor. I was planning on putting that project off for another year or so since I'll be marina-hopping here on Lake Ontario for at least another year but I'm still leery of my existing setup. I have no experience anchoring and how the boat will behave at anchor other than all I've read over the years.

Here's my dilemma. I went to Mantus' web site and found that they have their anchors on sale right now for considerable savings over all the anchors I've been considering. My problem is how I'll need to modify the bow area to allow it to fit and also be sturdy enough for anchoring in foul weather. The second issue is do I buy the Mantus M1 or M2? I've decided the 35 lb. anchor should work for me. I prefer the straighter shank of the M1 but am concerned about the rollbar interfering with the forestay/furler. The M2 might mitigate that but the high curve of the shank may make it harder to position the roller to get a clear path forward of the bow and still keep the tip away from the hull. I also am a little concerned with the M2's soft mud performance that I've seen discussed several times.

I've attached the best pictures I have right now of my bow layout. I can't create a template and go check it since the boat is buried under about 3 ft. of snow and I don't think I can even get into the marina. Sorry for what I do have. I thought I had taken some more detailed photos of the whole layout but I can't find them on my phone or computer so I'm stuck with these.

I know someone is going to ask so I'll mention it all up front even though it's not my intention to get into all these other details. I have a Morgan 321 (11,000 lbs displacement), I plan to sail around Lake Ontario for at least the next year or so. Intentions, once the upgrades are mostly done, is to check out LI sound and the shore of Connecticut/Rhode Island. Longer term into the Caribbean. Currently have a Fortress FX-16 on 20 ft of 3/8" chain and 120 ft of 1/2" 3-strand. Planning on 100 ft (min) of 5/16" HT chain and 200 ft of 5/8" 3-strand.

What are your thoughts and concerns? I plan to get my order in for the anchor ASAP as the price reduction would really help with all the other work I plan on doing this year. Even if I don't get it fitted yet, at least I would have it handy.

 

[dlochner]

Get the anchor and figure out the roller later. It will probably fit.

Increase the chain length to 150' so you can anchor with all chain in 30' of water. Then use a snubber or bridle and lead it through a chock to a cleat. This takes the load off of the anchor roller and provide a bit of a shock absorber for the chain.

A 35 lbs anchor and even 100' of chain needs a windlass or a very strong back. Hauling a heavy anchor and chain is no fun for an old back.

 

[JoeWhite]

Here are images and videos of how I solved the problem of the anchor shank coming in contact with the furler. The anchor is for a 44 ft sail boat that was installed on now my Catalina 36 sailboat. But I am sure glad that I have the added comfort knowing it's holding power with 50 feet of 5/16 chain and 250 feet of 4 strand 3/4" rode. I use a weight that I slide down the rode about 10 feet to avoid keel wrap with the rode.

Windlass And Anchor | Catalina 36 MKII Album | Sail La Vie Home

mei1970.org

If you have never anchored, ask an experienced neighbor to go out with you and show you how.
After 3 times of anchoring, you can perform flawlessly and with confidence. It is important to learn to anchor in case of emergency.

 

[shemandr]

That Fortress is quite a bit forward of the stem. I gotta think the Mantus will fit.
I don't know where you plan to buy but there is a well known nationwide marine retailer that has a liberal return policy.

 

[Terry Cox]

Whatever you decide, do not leave the slip until you have a working and effective anchoring system. It is the most important system and will save you and your boat from disaster, FWIW.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Anchors become exponentially heavier when you're bending over a bow pulpit. The 13lbs one on my Catalina 30 (looks like you have the same pulpit) is heavy when it's overboard. Water resistance and having it stuck on the bottom make it a challenge to pull up even with a good back.

One trick is to pull the boat above the anchor (you'll see the line go vertical), tie it off, wait for a low spot in waves/swells, tie it off again (shortening the line) and then the next high swell/wave will pull the anchor up. You can also use a winch of you dont have a windlass. Many cruisers have a manual windlass as they're more reliable, cheaper and doesn't require power or electrical system upgrades.

 

[Stu Jackson]

the problem of the anchor shank coming in contact with the furler.

Joe is right. The trick is to avoid contact. On my boat I installed long link plates on the furler to raise the drum of my ProFurl LCI32.

Your photos do not show your furler, so impossible to tell about your setup. But both Joe and I have identified a possible issue for you to deal with. Good luck.

 

[capta]

Over the last six decades of almost continuous boating, professionally and for pleasure, I have never found a more reliable and quick setting anchor than a Rocna.
When I first heard about the "next gen" anchors I just popped the idea. What could be better than my trusty old genuine CQR! But after watching a guy anchor in one of the flat coral "chutes" on the south side of Admiralty Bay, where I never saw a boat successfully anchor, including me and my trusty old genuine CQR, I had to reassess things.
I have always put my anchor tackle to be at or near the top of any boat's safety gear, so getting a hold of a Rocna became my prime concern. I NEVER drug, period. The anchor performed far beyond any hopes I could have had.
I don't want to get into a Rocna/Mantus discussion, but suffice to say, I have watched Mantus owners, experienced cruisers, being unable to set their Mantus anchors in anchorages where the Rocna hooked the first time. Then, walking through the boatyard in Prickly Bay, I saw the anchor pictured below. It was on a sailing cat, a light boat, not a heavy roomaran, so the anchor should not have bent like this. My Rocna never did and Skipping Stone weighed 77k pounds, many times more than the cat. You can make up your own mind, but consider that one time when it "absolutely, positively has to" do it's job, at any price! I would build the bow fitting to fit the anchor, if it was my choice.

 

[jssailem]

I was where you are, Trapper, once. I met Greg (owner of Mantus) at the Seattle Boatshow. He was sharing his ideas on the Mantus anchor system. I liked the ideas, and I bought the M1 at 35lbs, the bow roller, and the swivel in Jan 2018. I acquired a Lewmar V3 windlass from SBO, along with 115ft of chain and 250 ft of 8-plait rode.
They replaced the 33lb Bruce and manual windlass that came with the boat. I tried using the system on the boat, but I found the manual windlass slipped, and it was a lot of work. When the windlass failed, the 33lb Bruce and 40ft of chain required back-breaking effort to pull up from the sea floor.

My Original Bruce anchor setup.


The Mantus/Lewmar upgrade. I aligned the windlass with the location of the new bowroller.


The bowroller with anchor guard is terrific at holding the anchor off the bow.

In a sand/mud bottom 20ft depth plus a 9ft tide, I deployed the Mantus with a 7-1 scope and held firm for the night when 60mph winds blew in over the sheltered bay at Port Ludlow, WA. I have confidence in my anchor system.

 

[jssailem]

Check out Steve at SV Panope. He has a YouTube channel and has plenty of experience testing anchors to share. Explore his videos. You'll see anchors and how they respond to various conditions.
SV Panope - YouTube

 

[SV Temenos]

Check out Steve at SV Panope. He has a YouTube channel and has plenty of experience testing anchors to share. Explore his videos. You'll see anchors and how they respond to various conditions.
SV Panope - YouTube

Steve does a great job. I am partial to Spade anchors but everyone will have a different opinion.

 

[shemandr]

… everyone will have a different opinion.

Hoo boy!

 

[dlochner]

Over the years I've used a Danforth, a Plow, a Rocna, an old style fisherman's anchor, and a Spade.

The Danforth works well in sand and small grave and sucks big time in weeds which we get a lot of in the anchorages on Lake Ontario and St Lawrence River.

The plow cuts nice furrows in the bottom and holds ok in mud and benign conditions.

The Rocna set reasonably well, but didn't reset very well in wind shifts.

Only used the fisherman anchor once in a really weedy anchorage, drop it in and it set immediately.

The current anchor is a Spade and it has been my favorite. Sets quickly and stays set even in wind and current shifts. We have a couple of hundred nights on anchor with it in varying conditions.

 

[TrapperJohn]

Well, I did it. I ordered a 35# Mantus galvanized M2 while the sale was still on. The M1, my first choice, was sold out.

I considered the Rocna, Spade, Excel, and the Viking. My logic, which I may regret, was all of them are of the "next generation anchors". In S/V Panope's tests, of which I watched many, all of them have some kind of "weakness" and there are so many variables you can't account for everything. From years of reading forums on anchors, anchoring, etc., it seems this "next generation" is far improved over older styles. I think dlochner's post reiterated that. With the cost savings, I was willing to take the chance. As I get more experience, perhaps I'll change my mind in the future.

JoeWhite and jssailem, thanks for the pictures and encouragement. It gave me some things to think about and clues to how I want to proceed. I know I need to move my hawse pipe further back from the stem so the rode can fall closer to the center of the chain locker. I also planned to change out the centerline cleat to a 12" over the 10" that's already there. I also have two bow cleats and chocks that I can run snubbers through, if needed. I think I can avoid hitting the furler drum once I choose a replacement roller. I don't know if you noticed it in my crappy picture but the current one is bent up and the roller itself is in chunks. I don't know how both the surveyor and myself missed that pre-purchase.

Stu Jackson, thank you for the tip on re-positioning the furler a little higher. Let's see once I get the mast back up. Sorry for the uninformative pictures. I wish I knew where the one's I really wanted/needed went to.

Terry, I agree with your comments however it's not going to happen overnight. I'm not planning on traveling far from my fairly secure bay and short distance out in the big lake to get a feel for what works and what needs improvement. I've got TowBoatUS and the Coast Guard nearby to assist in an emergency and I don't have a McYacht that could mean losing my shirt.

I hear you all about the winch. As I move things around, I'm going to try to leave room for a winch. Still pondering that -- horizontal or vertical? I don't really have a ton of room in the chain locker (I think) and I'm not truly excited about running wiring and finding room for a battery in the v-berth. In the meantime, I'm going to try it out at my slip and in our sheltered bay where the chances are a lot less of running aground. I can always run a line back to the winch if I get stuck. I'm hoping I can find someone gullible enough to take time out of their day to show me the basics when I'm ready.

Thank you all for your input! Believe me, I took all your comments into account. I'll save the Fortress for a kedge or 2nd (3rd?) anchor.

 

[shemandr]

Yeah, keep that Fortress! They are good anchors. They’re light, they glide down to the bottom and land nicely, grip fast, hold well in sand/mud and are easy to retrieve. They’re may or may not be the anchor for a storm but for anchoring in benign conditions they are really good.

 

[dlochner]

Yeah, keep that Fortress! They are good anchors. They’re light, they glide down to the bottom and land nicely, grip fast, hold well in sand/mud and are easy to retrieve. They’re may or may not be the anchor for a storm but for anchoring in benign conditions they are really good.

And if you have the case, the Fortress breaks down and can be easily stowed in the case. We use ours as a kedge anchor and a spare should the Spade ever fail us.

 

[jssailem]

Congrats on your decision making. It is easy to get paralysis by analysis.

Get to know your anchorage bottom. Knowing the lake floor helps to understand how the anchor will set and react to changes in the wind and lake surface. Practice your set. Power set the sit for a bit, eat lunch, then retrieve and try again.

Make it easy on yourself. Let the boat pull the anchor out of the mud. Do this by snubbing up and let the boats buoyancy draw the anchor out of the mud. It is a whole lot stronger than we mere mortals.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Terry, I agree with your comments however it's not going to happen overnight. I'm not planning on traveling far from my fairly secure bay and short distance out in the big lake to get a feel for what works and what needs improvement. I've got TowBoatUS and the Coast Guard nearby to assist in an emergency and I don't have a McYacht that could mean losing my shirt.

Sorry dude. But you're evidently not hearing what Terry is saying. FAFO--you do not have to be far from the slip to get into a situation where you might need your anchor.