I dont have the money yet. I just got an updated price list. A BETA 35 with transmission is 19k not including mounts if i need them. Thats another $1000 plus any peripheral parts. I'm guessing $20-22k if i install it myself. Plus, I have to finish up on a couple of other projects I have started that will take me well into next year. I agree, i'm not going to put much more $ into this engine. We will see how things progress. I might ba able to get a deal on the head re-build. If i can it might be worth it. Injector are not terribly expensive. $300 give or take but might be a low hanging fruit i can get some value out of.
Engine Rod Knock
- Thread starter BAD ORCA
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They only include pistons, liners, rings, gaskets and a few other small parts. If i send it off to be rebuilt and then other major components are bad (which likely is the case), the rebuild could easily climb iinto the many thousands of dollars. Some of the more major parts like cam and crankshaft are getting extremely difficult to source. I went down this rabbit hole and concluded it was not worth it.
Agreed, it's a bit of a gamble. For local cruising, I wouldn't mind a rebuild, as I'm rarely more than a week away from a critical part.
When you swap the engine, the costs are much higher (2-3 x higher than rebuild), but you get everything refreshed and reliable (electrical, pumps, sensors, seals, bearings, engine mounts, fuel/exhaust lines, wire harness, maybe new fuel tank, thru hull and strainer, fuel filter, prop, shaft and cutlass?, etc...).
So I would agree based on the OP's extensive cruising plans, from a financial point of view, keep it on life support until it dies or he's ready to replace. Make sure you have towing insurance!
I've seen diesels runs for hundreds of hours with noises / bad compression. Yes it will likely get worst, but it may also keep putting along...
I'm guessing you're looking at the Beta 35? Dimensions are nearly identical to your existing Universal. Same engine mount width, shaft center to engine bed height should be withing 0.5" if I recall correctly. I can't recall if the exhaust is on the same side or not, but beta does offer a crossover elbow option, which we've used in many installations.
The servicing of the Beta is very easy, as everything is up front. The built-in oil change pump is worth it. They aren't quite as smooth/quiet as a Yanmar, but that can be mostly compensated for with modern engine compartment sound abatement materials. For long distance cruising, I would opt for a mechanical (ie: non electronic) controls. Even my local dockside mechanic that specializes on smaller boats doesn't have the software / subscriptions to work on the newer electronic diesels.
If that's what you're thinking, I'd get it sooner rather than later. Who knows when emissions requirements may change and may render the mechanical engines un-admissable for sale in NA (probably not during this administration?)
When you swap the engine, the costs are much higher (2-3 x higher than rebuild), but you get everything refreshed and reliable (electrical, pumps, sensors, seals, bearings, engine mounts, fuel/exhaust lines, wire harness, maybe new fuel tank, thru hull and strainer, fuel filter, prop, shaft and cutlass?, etc...).
So I would agree based on the OP's extensive cruising plans, from a financial point of view, keep it on life support until it dies or he's ready to replace. Make sure you have towing insurance!
I've seen diesels runs for hundreds of hours with noises / bad compression. Yes it will likely get worst, but it may also keep putting along...I'm guessing you're looking at the Beta 35? Dimensions are nearly identical to your existing Universal. Same engine mount width, shaft center to engine bed height should be withing 0.5" if I recall correctly. I can't recall if the exhaust is on the same side or not, but beta does offer a crossover elbow option, which we've used in many installations.
The servicing of the Beta is very easy, as everything is up front. The built-in oil change pump is worth it. They aren't quite as smooth/quiet as a Yanmar, but that can be mostly compensated for with modern engine compartment sound abatement materials. For long distance cruising, I would opt for a mechanical (ie: non electronic) controls. Even my local dockside mechanic that specializes on smaller boats doesn't have the software / subscriptions to work on the newer electronic diesels.
If that's what you're thinking, I'd get it sooner rather than later. Who knows when emissions requirements may change and may render the mechanical engines un-admissable for sale in NA (probably not during this administration?)
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Ha! Some good points. I think i will be ready to buy before this administration ends for sureAgreed, it's a bit of a gamble. For local cruising, I wouldn't mind a rebuild, as I'm rarely more than a week away from a critical part.
When you swap the engine, the costs are much higher (2-3 x higher than rebuild), but you get everything refreshed and reliable (electrical, pumps, sensors, seals, bearings, engine mounts, fuel/exhaust lines, wire harness, maybe new fuel tank, thru hull and strainer, fuel filter, prop, shaft and cutlass?, etc...).
So I would agree based on the OP's extensive cruising plans, from a financial point of view, keep it on life support until it dies or he's ready to replace. Make sure you have towing insurance!
I'm guessing you're looking at the Beta 35? Dimensions are nearly identical to your existing Universal. Same engine mount width, shaft center to engine bed height should be withing 0.5" if I recall correctly. I can't recall if the exhaust is on the same side or not, but beta does offer a crossover elbow option, which we've used in many installations.
The servicing of the Beta is very easy, as everything is up front. The built-in oil change pump is worth it. They aren't quite as smooth/quiet as a Yanmar, but that can be mostly compensated for with modern engine compartment sound abatement materials. For long distance cruising, I would opt for a mechanical (ie: non electronic) controls. Even my local dockside mechanic that specializes on smaller boats doesn't have the software / subscriptions to work on the newer electronic diesels.
If that's what you're thinking, I'd get it sooner rather than later. Who knows when emissions requirements may change and may render the mechanical engines un-admissible for sale in NA (probably not during this administration?)
. Yeah i dont want to wait too long. Prices will only go up.The 35 is nearly an identical drop in. I will have to move it forward a tad, but they offer mounting brackets that should fit my stringers with very little to no modifications except maybe moving the mounting holes. I have some leeway for and aft but can extend the stringers aft if i need to. This will be easy work once the old engine is out. I will template everything out much more precisely when the time comes though. The 35 is almost identical in horse power as well as my old Universal. My boat is on the heavy side for a 36ft so this will be an advantage. I was considering going with the BETA 30, but was warned it may be too small. Its not that much cheaper anyways.
lol...yes towing insurance card, phone and anchor are ready to deploy in a moments notice
Yeah the exhaust will be a little work. I will need a riser for sure. I agree, i'm going with mechanical controls. I think the standard TMC-60 transmission which comes with the engine is manual. I will have to research this a bit more.
The BETA's seem to have a very reliable reputation. That and the fact its a near identical drop in makes me think its the best option for me, and i will likely be too old to sail anymore in 40 more years when i wear it out, so next owner can put in a new fusion drive BETA 2065 model.
I doubt the noise you've described is head or injector related. I don't see where you have put a recording of the sound you are hearing - have you done that?
Have you tried using a mechanics stethoscope to pin point the noise? That could help figure out where the problem is
dj
I believe you post them to YouTube and just add the link here. But you can ask Dave (@dlochner) and he can guide you..
Getting a mechanics stethoscope is a good piece of kit to add to your tool box, especially with the sailing plans you have. They are pretty inexpensive.
dj
@dLj is correct. Upload the video to your YouTube account and post the link in a post. If you don't have a YouTube account, it is easy to start one and there is no cost.
The alternative is to upload the video file directly to SBO, however, that is definitely not the preferred method. You may run in to file size problems and it requires extra steps for the reader, i.e., download the file and open it in a video player program. For those of us who have limited bandwidth or who use cell connections this can use up valuable data allotments.
Great thanks guys...here is a short video (Youtube link hopefully works) of the sound. I still cant tell if its top or bottom end. Sorry terrible video. Let me know if you cant view it. My first time posting youtube video.
It sounds like a double tap to me. To my ears it definitely sounds like rod knock.
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It sounds like a double tap to me. To my ears it definitely sounds like rod knock.
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A stethoscope is a great way to pinpoint a sound from your engine. Just touch the tip to different places and it will get louder as you get closer to the source.Great thanks guys...here is a short video (Youtube link hopefully works) of the sound. I still cant tell if its top or bottom end. Sorry terrible video. Let me know if you cant view it. My first time posting youtube video.
It sounds like a double tap to me. To my ears it definitely sounds like rod knock.
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I agree - sure sounds like rod tap. It's not too bad, I wouldn't spend any money on that engine given you are going to replace it. It could run like that for a long time. The problem is when that sound gets worse - then it could self destruct in a short time - no telling how long - but could be minutes or...
dj
dj
Oh thats cheap. We have a Harbor Freight in the city. Thanks for link.
Good to know. I will pay close attention to any changes in sound. From my memory, Interestingly, the sound has not changed or gotten worse since I bought the boat in 2016. I estimate we put over 100 hours on her since at least. Now that we can sail her again, we only use the engine for about 3 hours a month maybe.
Its nice to finally pretty much know what the problem is. It was always a mystery.
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Apropos of Whatever, I replaced our high-hour Universal M25XP, in 20218. While I could have removed the old (still running) engine, I roughly calculated that going thru the engine, new torque plate, very-tired panel, and questionable Hurth transmission was going to quickly be well over half the cost of a new Betamarine25, in the crate. We love the (quieter) new engine. No oil leaks or seeps, the built-in oil change pump, and several "etc."
If you want the link to some photos of the repower project. let me know. If you are planning to keep your boat another decade, this amortizes out well, IMHO.
Looked up your design -- nice lines! MARINER 36 (CANNING) - sailboatdata
If you want the link to some photos of the repower project. let me know. If you are planning to keep your boat another decade, this amortizes out well, IMHO.
Looked up your design -- nice lines! MARINER 36 (CANNING) - sailboatdata
Yeah definitely, please send link. That would be cool to see.Apropos of Whatever, I replaced our high-hour Universal M25XP, in 20218. While I could have removed the old (still running) engine, I roughly calculated that going thru the engine, new torque plate, very-tired panel, and questionable Hurth transmission was going to quickly be well over half the cost of a new Betamarine25, in the crate. We love the (quieter) new engine. No oil leaks or seeps, the built-in oil change pump, and several "etc."
If you want the link to some photos of the repower project. let me know. If you are planning to keep your boat another decade, this amortizes out well, IMHO.
Looked up your design -- nice lines! MARINER 36 (CANNING) - sailboatdata
Thanks, thats my girl. Great little boats. Built like a tank in all the right places. Sails like a dream. I'm going through all her systems one-by-one and completely redoing everything. Thankfully the structure and hull are rock solid and need no attention except new topside paint. Engine will be the last 'big' project. I plan on keeping her until im too old to sail her, so maybe 40+ years.
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It sounds somewhat like a leaking intake or exhaust manifold gasket. It will typically make a ticking or popping sound and that is what I am hearing.Great thanks guys...here is a short video (Youtube link hopefully works) of the sound. I still cant tell if its top or bottom end. Sorry terrible video. Let me know if you cant view it. My first time posting youtube video.
It sounds like a double tap to me. To my ears it definitely sounds like rod knock.
IMG 0063
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.