Sorting out reefing system 1986 Legend 37

[JavaMan]

Ok.... I have a 1986 Legend 37 and the sail has at least 2 reefing points. Everything I seem to find would suggest that there are 2 reefing lines in the boom... except that I only have one. Along with that I have the outhaul for the sail as well. And just now thinking about it, raises another question... the rope for the outhaul goes to a pulley on a car inside the boom and around that pulley... the wire cable is attached to the back side of the car and out the sheave at the aft end of the boom. But the new question is, where does the end of the rope go. I don't see it.

The original question that brought me here was I only have one reef line "system" with the forward line from the forward reef point through the fairlead, down through the sheave and into the boom. It then goes to a pulley car and back to the sheaves at the front of the boom, out, down the mast, and back to the cockpit. The second pulley on that car has the line that runs from a stop knot at the aft of the boom, to the car, and back to the aft and out a sheave there, to the aft reef point. That all makes sense, but it uses 2 (count 'em, 2) sheaves out of 4 at the front of the boom, leaving me only 1 for a second reef "system". I can't seem to figure out how that's going to work.

I'm looking for any input or suggestions. The forward end of the boom looks like the pics attached (Blue coded line is outhaul, red is reefing system):

Top:

Bottom:

 

[JavaMan]

So I've been searching for answers for the last how ever long and it would appear that the line to the deck organizer (back to the cockpit), is supposed to go over or between those little white rollers at the bottom of the forward part of the boom. and the line that goes to the forward reef point is supposed to be under the sheave and up the mast? It would make sense, but the smaller things on the bottom have me puzzled. Why so small, and does it go between them or over the top of the topmost one.

 

[BrianQ]

The forward reefing line, the one that runs up to the forward cringle, doesn't go over one of the forward sheaves, it goes under the same sheave that the line runs over going into the boom to the shuttle block, then down to a turning block on the mast. The picture below shows how the lines are routed.

 

[JavaMan]

Brian, thanks. That is the most clear diagram I've seen yet! One problem tho ... I don't have item #2 on my mast. Of course, if I'm supposed to have that, it would explain a lot!

Oh, and the fairleads on both sides are bent out at the bottom ... weird... I'd think that would get in the way of the line coming from the turning block (#2)

 

[Ringydingydo]

Brian, thanks. That is the most clear diagram I've seen yet! One problem tho ... I don't have item #2 on my mast. Of course, if I'm supposed to have that, it would explain a lot!

Oh, and the fairleads on both sides are bent out at the bottom ... weird... I'd think that would get in the way of the line coming from the turning block (#2)

Regarding that 'Item #2'. My Legend 37 (1989) Isomat rig does not have it either. So, I added it. My rig has a very robust stainless rod contraption instead of the #3 and #2 fixtures shown on the Rig Rite autoreef diagram. I am about to use a low-friction aluminum donut sheeve (as #2)with dyneema (sp?) pigtail so I can attach it to the rod contraption (#3) on the mast.

 

[Ringydingydo]

So I've been searching for answers for the last how ever long and it would appear that the line to the deck organizer (back to the cockpit), is supposed to go over or between those little white rollers at the bottom of the forward part of the boom. and the line that goes to the forward reef point is supposed to be under the sheave and up the mast? It would make sense, but the smaller things on the bottom have me puzzled. Why so small, and does it go between them or over the top of the topmost one.

I have the axle for the small white parts but no small white parts. They are available on the rig-rite.com site. But, I don't think they are needed.

 

[JavaMan]

So, after nearly a year, I am finally getting back to this task. I am hoping to NOT have to take the book off or parts of it apart, but if I must, I must. I want to add that second reef line, and I can't tell if there is a second car inside the boom for the second reef line. If not, I am assuming from other comments in this and other posts that Rig Rite should have them?

Secondly, I have the bails on the underside of the boom for the tie-offof that end of the reef lines, but they don't make a lot of sense. There are 3 bails, 1 for the mainsheet block, and 2 for the reef points. The 2 for the reef points (I'm assuming that's what they are for) are riveted into the boom, right next to each other - and by that I mean they are touching each other. Currently I have the mainsheet attached to the middle one, and the loose bail is between that and the end of the boom (I'm assuming that is where the main sheet block*should* go).

This pretty much means that the two reef lines would be separated by about 2-3 inches? Looking at the sail, they are much farther apart, parallel to the boom, than that. Can I conclude that at the very least the forward one should be moved forward to just below where the reef point is on the sail?

Picture of what I'm trying to describe:

 

[SV Temenos]

On my Hunter 39 it did not have the reefing cars installed and thus did not work well. I had two cars installed one for each reefing line. The system work very well now. My rigger said don't use the bails on the underside. Just tie a loop around the boom for each reefing line. You want them to slide on the boom.

 

[JavaMan]

On my Hunter 39 it did not have the reefing cars installed and thus did not work well. I had two cars installed one for each reefing line. The system work very well now. My rigger said don't use the bails on the underside. Just tie a loop around the boom for each reefing line. You want them to slide on the boom.

That's what I was thinking (about the Sliding part) ... but then I got to thinking that the reef points are in a "fixed" spot horizontally so it shouldn't make a difference... but having the two points butt up against each other? That would imply the reef points were only inches apart, not feet. I'm thinking of just grinding the rivets out and letting them slide.

But I still need to figure out if the second car is there. And on the RigRite site I can find the sheaves, but not the cars... so I'm hoping there is one in the boom.

Going to probably be attacking this issue later this coming week.

 

[SV Temenos]

If it is a seldom mast you should be able to order it from them using the serial number of the mast. It comes as a kit with the car and lines. Not sure if you can just get the car.

 

[shemandr]

...My rigger said don't use the bails on the underside. Just tie a loop around the boom for each reefing line. You want them to slide on the boom.

Why?
It seems to me that those bails are better located for a muli-part mainsheet than for reefing lines. But the picture doesn't show where they are on the boom. The fact that you have the mainsheet attached to one suggests they are not in a place suitable for tying the reef lines to.

 

[jssailem]

Gentlemen, if your sail is loose-footed as many modern sails are, you do not want to attach the sail to the boom when you reef.

If you have lazy jacks, you can leave the sail lying on the boom for a short time while the wind passes. There is not going to be much in the way of a sail to capture with a single reef. Double or triple-reefed sails will have more sail on the boom. If you are in a major blow and will be sailing for a long period, use nylon sail ties (webbing) to capture just the sail to itself once it is down.

Not tying it to the boom means you will not be ripping the sail when you try to shake out the reef and hoist the mainsail with the winch. More than one owner has taken a torn Mainsail to the loft, saying they have no idea how it happened.

 

[SV Temenos]

I think you misunderstood. This is not tying the sail to the boom. Per Seldon rigging instructions the end of the reefing line is tied around the boom. It then goes to the reefing point. When you pull in the reefing line this is what brings the clew to the boom. This is why it shouldn't be tied to a spot on the boom. It wants to slide towards the end of the boom as you reef in the sail.

 

[jssailem]

Per Seldon rigging instructions the end of the reefing line is tied around the boom. It then goes to the reefing point.

That now makes sense. Yes, I agree, and it is how I have my boom end reefing rigged.

I utilize slab reefing. When I have the main reefed, the foot is loose in the lazyjacks. This allows for easy unreefing. If I have the main down and I am using only the reefed Genoa, then I set sail ties on the sail only, not attached to the boom.

 

[JavaMan]

Thanks to all that have replied! It now makes a bit more sense... especially the multipart mainsheet... Although, I don't know if that's the way the rig came originally. As for where the photo is - it's just above the traveler, which is just aft of the companionway before you step down into the cockpit. So probably close to 4/5 - 5/6 the way aft on the boom from the gooseneck.

Just to be clear, we're talking about the boom, not the mast. Which is Isomat (the boom is).. And I can't find the cars on the website, so I'm hoping the second one is in there.

Unfortunately, it's going to be raining on and off over the next week or so, which is frustrating. I hope I can get to it ASAP because I want it taken care of and off my mind.

I have a camera on the end of a long wire that I've used to figure out if cable runs were open enough to put cable in, etc... so I will probably tape it to the end of a fishtape and take a good look inside.

 

[BrianQ]

Hopefully the second shuttle block is inside your boom. I don't believe the Isomat Auto Reef shuttle blocks are available, but Seasure makes one that will work. You can also use two small blocks fastened together to form a makeshift shuttle block.

Here is a lint to a Seasure shuttle block.

In your second picture the appears to be a boom bail that is not riveted to the underside of the boom. There should be two unless a previous owner removed the second one. Slide the free sliding boom bail aft of aft of where the reefing line comes down from the sail when fully raised and attach the end of the reefing line to it. When the reefing lines are adjusted properly the new clew will be pulled down and aft when you reef the main.

When shaking out the reef, and anytime you're raising the main ensure you've opened the line clutches for the two reefing lines.

 

[jaysweet]

Just a comment about having to take the boom ends off. I have a Selden boom that has a car system inside for the outhaul line. When I replaced all my running rigging in 2020, I couldn't figure out how to do the outhaul, so I just left it all grody and nasty looking for another 6 years. This year, I had a professional rigger replace the outhaul (and the standing rigging and several other things), and I asked how they did it. He said they took both ends of the boom off and just re-riveted them afterwards. I guess my point is that this is probably the right way (and maybe the only way) to do it. If I were to attempt this myself in the future, I wouldn't try to avoid it, but just figure out how to do it properly.

 

[JavaMan]

Hopefully the second shuttle block is inside your boom. I don't believe the Isomat Auto Reef shuttle blocks are available, but Seasure makes one that will work. You can also use two small blocks fastened together to form a makeshift shuttle block.

Here is a lint to a Seasure shuttle block.

In your second picture the appears to be a boom bail that is not riveted to the underside of the boom. There should be two unless a previous owner removed the second one. Slide the free sliding boom bail aft of aft of where the reefing line comes down from the sail when fully raised and attach the end of the reefing line to it. When the reefing lines are adjusted properly the new clew will be pulled down and aft when you reef the main.

When shaking out the reef, and anytime you're raising the main ensure you've opened the line clutches for the two reefing lines.

Actually there are 3 boom bails there... the two that are shown in full and are riveted, and the one that is most aft and free. Still unsure as to why those two are riveted, but, it is at the moment of secondary concern, as getting the second reef line into the boom is primary. And thanks for the link!