R.O. water filter install question

[BAD ORCA]

I recently inherited a simple five stage RO water filter. Do I need to install a second fresh water pump just for the RO filter? I wanted to have the system set up with a separate faucet for the RO drinking water, and a bypass or separate pump/line that goes directly to the faucet and shower for doing dishes etc...

Also, will i need to fiddle with the air pressure in the accumulator tank or do they generally come setup at the appropriate air pressure?

I recently purchased and installed a brand new Shureflow Aquaking II fresh water pump. Will it constantly/frequently cycle trying to push water through the filter more than it normally would?

 

[kappykaplan]

(see attached pic)

No attachment.

 

[BAD ORCA]

No attachment.

Ha! sorry, just updated post

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

You need a high pressure feed pump which typically comes with the RO system but yours may not. Check specs for the system you now have.
On the downstream side, all you need is to replicate the existing plumbing pump, accumulator and storage tank which can be plumbed wherever you need.

 

[Hello Below]

From Google AI.
“Reverse osmosis (RO) systems typically generate a significant amount of wastewater, often referred to as brine. The waste-to-product water ratio can vary, but a common estimate is that for every gallon of purified water produced, 3 to 4 gallons of wastewater are generated. Some systems may even have a ratio as high as 6:1. This means that a considerable portion, often 75% or more, of the water entering an RO system is discharged as wastewater.”

 

[BAD ORCA]

From Google AI.
“Reverse osmosis (RO) systems typically generate a significant amount of wastewater, often referred to as brine. The waste-to-product water ratio can vary, but a common estimate is that for every gallon of purified water produced, 3 to 4 gallons of wastewater are generated. Some systems may even have a ratio as high as 6:1. This means that a considerable portion, often 75% or more, of the water entering an RO system is discharged as wastewater.”

Thanks, Its not a desalinator just a typical fresh water purifier.

 

[Hello Below]

Yes I understand. I am certainly not an SME in reverse osmosis systems but my experience with 4 different residential RO systems over the years have all had brine hoses feed back to a saddle on the sink drain pipe. Anytime using the RO faucet has resulted in the sound of water running down the drain pipe. Could you provide the make and model of the RO you intend to install in your boat. It would give me a better understanding of your specific system?

 

[BAD ORCA]

Yes I understand. I am certainly not an SME in reverse osmosis systems but my experience with 4 different residential RO systems over the years have all had brine hoses feed back to a saddle on the sink drain pipe. Anytime using the RO faucet has resulted in the sound of water running down the drain pipe. Could you provide the make and model of the RO you intend to install in your boat. It would give me a better understanding of your specific system?

Oh I see. Its a generic five stage setup. I think its an older unit (early 2000's). I cant find the company anymore, but there are many look alike copies on Amazon that are basically the exact same unit. I did buy a wastewater fitting that I will attach to the sink drain. I have never seen or used one of these units so am not quite sure what to expect in performance on a sailboat.

 

[BAD ORCA]

From Google AI.
“Reverse osmosis (RO) systems typically generate a significant amount of wastewater, often referred to as brine. The waste-to-product water ratio can vary, but a common estimate is that for every gallon of purified water produced, 3 to 4 gallons of wastewater are generated. Some systems may even have a ratio as high as 6:1. This means that a considerable portion, often 75% or more, of the water entering an RO system is discharged as wastewater.”

Boy thats a lot of wastewater. I'm not sure i would want this thing running when going offshore if it wastes that much water. Thinking I might need to add in a tee connector with a manual shutoff. At the dock not so much a problem though.

 

[dLj]

If you aren't desalinating sea water to drinking water, I don't understand why you would want a RO system. There are simply filters that you can use that work really well with any kind of potable water. There are even filters that work for non-potable water but they get pretty slow moving water.

I understand the beauty of "free" but unless I was making fresh water from salt water that wouldn't be a device that would make it into my boat.

dj

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

If you aren't desalinating sea water to drinking water, I don't understand why you would want a RO system. There are simply filters that you can use that work really well with any kind of potable water. There are even filters that work for non-potable water but they get pretty slow moving water.

I understand the beauty of "free" but unless I was making fresh water from salt water that wouldn't be a device that would make it into my boat.

dj

We have an RO water maker which can be used to filter salt water but used more often to ensure our dock water and tank water is clean. The typical “simple filters” to which I assume you refer that are commonly used by boaters are little more than porous membrane and carbon with little residence time, which advertising notwithstanding, makes them good to eliminate rocks and offensive taste but little else.

 

[dLj]

We have an RO water maker which can be used to filter salt water but used more often to ensure our dock water and tank water is clean. The typical “simple filters” to which I assume you refer that are commonly used by boaters are little more than porous membrane and carbon with little residence time, which advertising notwithstanding, makes them good to eliminate rocks and offensive taste but little else.

There are multiple classes of filters. The ones you are referring to are of the lowest class. And I agree, fairly useless. But there are much better filters. If I was near my computer I could pull up specific references but I'm on my boat with only my cell phone so can't access the detailed data file sitting on my computer.

Depending upon where one lives and the quality of water available, I could see setting up a RO system on the dock to fill my tanks, but unless I was desalinating I wouldn't do that on my boat. It would seem almost mandatory to be desalinating to support a RO system on-board.

How would you use a RO system onboard if you aren't desalinating? Why are your tanks so contaminated?

dh

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

How would you use a RO system onboard if you aren't desalinating? Why are your tanks so contaminated?

dh

don’t understand the first question.

The plumbing is designed with multiple ‘pick up’ points, I.e., tanks, shore water connection or the sea.

Re second question - tank water can contain contaminants regardless of the source(s) of filling them. As of this moment, one of my tanks was filled from a water source in the DR and therefore of unknown quality. It’s not that they are “so contaminated” but more of unknown quality. I don’t like guessing when it comes to family/friends.

 

[dLj]

don’t understand the first question.

The plumbing is designed with multiple ‘pick up’ points, I.e., tanks, shore water connection or the sea.

Re second question - tank water can contain contaminants regardless of the source(s) of filling them. As of this moment, one of my tanks was filled from a water source in the DR and therefore of unknown quality. It’s not that they are “so contaminated” but more of unknown quality. I don’t like guessing when it comes to family/friends.

The first question is based on how do you handle water planning if you are dumping 75% of your stored water to produce 25% of RO water. Are you using two (or more) stored water tanks with one empty to put the RO water in while pumping out of the other tanks. Once the "contaminated" or "questionable" tanks are empty, do you then sanitize them and then switch to desalination and then fill the tank(s) that you just emptied? Because if you have questionable or a contaminated tank, just emptying it won't give you a "safe" water tank.

Does that clarify that question?

dj

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

The first question is based on how do you handle water planning if you are dumping 75% of your stored water to produce 25% of RO water. Are you using two (or more) stored water tanks with one empty to put the RO water in while pumping out of the other tanks. Once the "contaminated" or "questionable" tanks are empty, do you then sanitize them and then switch to desalination and then fill the tank(s) that you just emptied? Because if you have questionable or a contaminated tank, just emptying it won't give you a "safe" water tank.

Does that clarify that question?

dj

I guess your presumption we ‘dump’ 75% of the water is what trips you up. While that’s probably close for salt water, the actual amount for fresh water is trivial.

As to the tank wall problem, there are large clean-outs through which we clean and disinfect when necessary.

if you want further details, PM me as the minutia probably won’t interest anyone else.

 

[Foswick]

This is a subject I've put a lot of thought into and I would love it if someone had a better answer than I have come up with. The bottom line is that I could not figure out a way to make it feasible to RO filter water on the boat in any reasonably conservative way.

We prefilter water going into the tank with a 20-micron sediment filter with activated carbon. Source water is highly variable, so that just keeps out sediment and keeps that water relatively free of bad tastes. We also carry water test strips to avoid putting really bad water into our tank at all. For the most part, that is fine.

But, I am a really serious tea drinker (like it's my religion). "Good enough" water is not good enough. Water quality is everything. Tea made from tap water will ruin my day. At home, we have a pretty decent 5-stage RO system that does a satisfactory job. And, that filtered water comes out of a special tap that is only used for tea. (I told you, it is a religion.) I don't know or really care how efficient it is. Generally, the higher the pressure (within limits) the better the efficiency (i.e. lower wastewater ratio), and we have pretty good pressure. I expect we are seeing around 3:1.

Even just that efficiency would be a bit challenging to achieve on a boat. It probably involves a booster or permeate pump (a whole other topic). But, if you got serious, you could get about a 2:1 efficiency. We just can't make that make sense for us.

So, I have to bring "good" water in bottles, for this purpose.

If there is a way to make a RO filter work on a boat (for the purpose of conditioning stored freshwater), I haven't figured it out.

 

[dLj]

@Foswick Sounds like @Don S/V ILLusion has it down quite well. If you don't have a 75% waste effluent running tank water, then that could be a system you could be interested in. I've always thought these systems had a large amount of waste water but apparently that's only for desalination.

I currently have my boat setup such that I could easily install a desalination system but haven't done it at this point. As my boat has a lot of fresh water storage I haven't felt the need to install a unit yet. But when I redid all my thru hulls, i planned for a potential future installation. It never occurred to me to put a pick-up in my tankage water as I also do all my fills through a decent filter. I also then run my whole internal water system through a high quality filter (which I don't recall it's rating).

I'm not concerned for demineralization in fact prefer not. But if that affects your tea, then that could well be what would work for you. It's certainly an energy concern to run.

dj

 

[BAD ORCA]

If you aren't desalinating sea water to drinking water, I don't understand why you would want a RO system. There are simply filters that you can use that work really well with any kind of potable water. There are even filters that work for non-potable water but they get pretty slow moving water.

I understand the beauty of "free" but unless I was making fresh water from salt water that wouldn't be a device that would make it into my boat.

dj

I live in Los Angeles and am concerned with the purity of our drinking water. We have some pretty nasty chemicals that are well above safe limits. I drink three gallons of water a week and have been paying a lot to have good water delivered. The RO system was something I had sitting around for a while so decided to try and use it to save some $ down the road. Also, my water tanks aboard the boat are 40 year old aluminum. The water coming out of them tastes nasty and is not drinkable. Like Foswick, i'm and avid coffee and tea drinker, but also an avid hiker and outdoors person. Good water is high on my list of health concerns. To add...I was using a less complicated carbon filter but it is a pain to constantly replace and clean and it did not eliminate the nasty tank taste. It was better though.

Your right...maybe there are easier just as effective units to do what i'm proposing with the five stage, but why go through the trouble when this one is sitting here in front of me ready to be used? Iv'e said i have no experience. This will be a bit of an experiment to get used to the technology, but it will cost me hardly nothing. I will get relatively cheap fresh water. Eventually i'll have a desalinator, but thats several years away. This one will be easy to remove if i decide its not earning its keep or if/when i get a desalination unit.

Water storage is not an issue. It comes with its own four gallon tank. I'll report back once its up and running so anyone reading/thinking of one of these in the future will have some feedback.

 

[jssailem]

Sounds to me like a solid plan.

Reading the thread I was struck by the desire to have "Pure Water" but the concern that in the search for pure water, there is a wastewater concern.

Here is a site that may provide some ideas. Why Reverse Osmosis Waste Water & How to Reduce It

The analogy of washing one's hands helped shed light on the challenge of wastewater. The term "wastewater" is a little misleading when you think of the water that goes down the drain while washing your hands. That water has helped to do the job of cleaning. It is not waste it is unpure water that has been used to get clean hands.

In the RO process, it is the used water needed to get the pure water for the discriminating Tea/Coffee drinker.

 

[dLj]

I am not familiar with water quality in LA but if it's water being produced for potable drinking water it shouldn't have constituents that are harmful. But in any case, running a RO system to remove specific species, you actually have to both design and test to be certain you are producing what you feel you need. Then the difficulty is changing feed sources. For different feed sources, you need to adapt the correct filtration to the incoming chemistry. RO filtration to remove chemicals is not as simple as plugging in a home system and getting rid of them.

What are the "nasty" chemicals you are trying to remove?

dj