Hello I just bought a new to me Pearson that is in great structural shape! But man the head area stinks and I've been told that the hoses are probably permeated. This is my first sailboat and I would like to tackle this task myself. How do I know which hoses to remove, and is there a procedure in general for removing these hoses? I just want to remove them for now to get rid of the stank. Thanks folks
Pearson 28-1, permeated hoses
- Thread starter Dappledawnfarm
- Start date
@Peggie Hall HeadMistress will tell you to remove all of the blackwater hoses at a minimum and ideally all vent lines as well. I've been through it and pretty well all you need is a size 5 hat and a size 18 neck. She will tell you what type of hose to use (which I've promptly forgotten) but don't even look at the price. It's a fortune but worth every penny. The most regretable thing you could ever do is go cheap on the hoses.
Yes, I used Trident hose in my replacement and got the workout of a lifetime. Supposedly just as impermeable but not everyone's idea of a good time.
Conceptually removing the hose is easy. Remove the hose clamps, pull the hose off the fittings, and pull the hose out. Easier said than done.
Before you start removing the hose, pump plenty of fresh clean water through the system and pump out the holding tank. If the hose has long run that is not easily accessible, use an old dock line and run it through the hose end to end. Pull the hose out leaving the dock line in place. Before the new hose is inserted, thread the dock line through it. The dock line will guide the hose through those inaccessible places.
Raritan Sani-flex is the only hose to use, it is very flexible and has a 10 year no odor warranty. They also print the manufacturing date on the hosed, no wondering about the hose's age any more.
Before you start removing the hose, pump plenty of fresh clean water through the system and pump out the holding tank. If the hose has long run that is not easily accessible, use an old dock line and run it through the hose end to end. Pull the hose out leaving the dock line in place. Before the new hose is inserted, thread the dock line through it. The dock line will guide the hose through those inaccessible places.
Raritan Sani-flex is the only hose to use, it is very flexible and has a 10 year no odor warranty. They also print the manufacturing date on the hosed, no wondering about the hose's age any more.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,879
Agree wholeheartedly.
Welcome @Dappledawnfarm to the forum. Glad to have you on the crew.
I just completed a replacement of my sanitation hoses. Raritan Saniflex is the tool to install.
In the scheme of boat things, the cost for the hose is small when you think about eliminating the stink in your boat (from the effluent in your head system) over the next ten years and the ease of installation.
Peggie has a great book about you being your boat's sanitation engineer. I would encourage you to get a copy. It will answer many of the questions that are going to come up.
One thing to consider is that the people who built your boat really had no experience with the design and function of handling sewage. Peggie helped me understand this and reroute my effluent hose to take advantage of the head system and gravity to make the flushing efficient.
If you have not yet been informed, as the boat owner, you are taking on all of the duties of a small town's mayor, Banker, Public Works Director, Navigator, sheriff, etc. You name it, and everyone on board turns to you when something happens. Fun right!
Have an ample supply of diapers on hand to block the residual hose contents from running into crevices along the hose run. It's nearly impossible not to have spillage. Also have a spray bottle with some very diluted Clorox or other biocide in it.
This is an opportunity to re-design your system. Usually boat builders build sanitation systems to expedite the build. Not to optimize the system. For instance, the hose runs should not sag since sag allows contents to remain in place to facilitate the permeation process. And the runs should be as short as possible. This may mean moving the discharge thru hull. Also the vent hose can stand to be enlarged. This is all in Peggy's book. You may want to create a fresh water flush system since a lot of the stink is from marine creatures.
This is an opportunity to re-design your system. Usually boat builders build sanitation systems to expedite the build. Not to optimize the system. For instance, the hose runs should not sag since sag allows contents to remain in place to facilitate the permeation process. And the runs should be as short as possible. This may mean moving the discharge thru hull. Also the vent hose can stand to be enlarged. This is all in Peggy's book. You may want to create a fresh water flush system since a lot of the stink is from marine creatures.
All of the above +PLUS+ a hair drier and loads of non-petroleum based lubricant (eg. SuperLube) for fitting the hose over hose barbs.
This!
Depending on where your marina is located it could be very beneficial. My previous marina was just off the bay on a creek that continued on into marsh lands and then dead ended into a canal system with a lot of homes on it.
Our normal tide movement never really allowed clean water to flush out the dirty water from that canal system.
I put in a fresh water toilet using the boat's fresh water tanks for flushing.
That alone solved the odor problems on our boat.
There are other plumbing tricks that allow you to put fresh water into the head sink and pump that through the toilet before leaving the boat closed up.
Wow, you are all a wealth of information, I'm so glad I joined this group! Thank you so much for all the tips on sewage systems on a boat. Plus, I love the analogy about being the town mayor, I never thought about that but it's true
There's a very simple test for permeated hoses: wet CLEAN rags in hot water--as hot as you can handle...wring them out and wrap one around every section hose...when they cool, remove each rag and smell it. If you smell nothing on the rag, that section of hose has not permeated...but if you smell anything on the rag, it has. New hoses are the only cure.
REPLACING HOSES IN AN EXISTING SYSTEM
Measure the amount of new hose you’ll need and buy it (add at least one extra foot as a safety margin). Use sanitation hose throughout the entire system, including the toilet intake and tank vent.
Map out your entire plan and determine solutions to all problems and obstacles before you remove a single hose. Photos can be very useful in helping you map it out, and in finding out what you'll be up against in hard to see areas. In some cases, real time video can even be your eyes while doing the work.
If you discover that you have questions that need answers, or problems you aren’t sure how to solve, ask those questions before you start any work, because it’s always cheaper and easier to do it right the first time than it is to do it over!
Prepping to do any work on any part of the sanitation system starts with thoroughly rinsing out the whole system with plenty of clean water before taking anything apart. Pump out the holding tank VERY thoroughly with lots of clean fresh water. Adding Raritan C.P. to the rinse will remove most of the odor. Rinse out the toilet, all hoses and any macerators or manual pumps VERY thoroughly with lots and lots of clean water. If the hoses REALLY stink, it may help to smear a healthy glob of Vicks Salve under your nose before you start. If possible, schedule your project for a time when you can do it on a cool day. And be sure to create plenty of ventilation, especially in any closed areas in the bilge.
Put plastic garbage bags or disposable aluminum roasting or loaf pans under hose connections to catch any spills. (Warming hoses with a blow dryer makes them easier to remove and replace). Have a couple of rolls paper shop towels (super heavy duty paper towels) handy...you'll need them.
Now you’re ready to start the real work.
Remove the highest hose connection first to minimize drips, and stick plugs (available from any hardware store) in the ends of the hose. Work on only one hose at a time...and take each section of hose all the way off the boat as soon as you get it loose (your dock mates may insist you take it all the way off the dock!). When taking a hose off a fitting, have a disposable aluminum roasting or loaf pan or a plastic trash bag under the connection to catch any drainage. Have lots of shop towels handy to mop up what misses the pan.
Removing hoses becomes much easier if you’ll heat them with a heat gun (I’ve always preferred using a blow dryer) to soften them up before trying to work them off. Unless you want to also replace all the fittings, do not pry them off with a screwdriver or saw them off...the screwdriver blade will dimple the fitting, the saw will cut into it, and the new hose won’t seal.
It’s often much easier to pull new hose through inaccessible places if you connect it to the old hose and pull the new through as you pull the old out. Use a male-to male connector (available from the plumbing department in any box store or really good hardware store). Use PVC cement to secure the ends of both hoses onto it. Do not use duct tape…it won’t hold if you have to pull hard. Do not hose clamps or anything that can get hung up as you pull the hose through, and be sure to butt the ends of the hose tightly together to create the smoothest uninterrupted surface possible. After you’ve pulled it through, cut the new hose cleanly behind the connector and dispose of the old hose and connector.
Raritan Sani-Flex is the only hose I recommend any more...it has a 10 yr warranty against odor permeation and has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent almost as tight as a hairpin without kinking. Trident 101/102 (identical except 102 has a white "skin" on it) are as odor permeation resistant, but are only suitable for long STRAIGHT runs because they're as stiff as a wooden plank, making it necessary to use in-line radius fittings for any bends of more than 2-3 degrees.
To put the new hose onto fittings, heat the hose with a blow dryer (use a heat gun only if you really know what you’re doing with one) to soften it. Be careful, and be patientl! You only want to warm the hose enough to slide it onto a fitting; overheating hose can damage it, causing collapse or tearing. Smear a little dish soap (or even better, K-Y surgical jelly; it’s much slipperier than soap and water soluble, so it dries out) on the inside of the hose and the outside of the fitting to lubricate the connection. Don’t use Vaseline or any grease...and don’t use ANY cement or sealant...only Teflon tape on the threaded end of tank fittings. Double clamp all the hose connections with screws on opposite sides of the hose, or at least 90 degrees apart if 180 degrees isn’t possible.
Important note: Plastic tank fittings are NPT (National Pipe Thread) standard, which are slightly (so slightly that it’s not noticeable to the naked eye in such a short piece) tapered. They’re also self-sealing,so DO NOT USE ANY SEALANT! So when threading fittings into the tank, tighten only one turn past “hand tight,” plus enough to aim an elbow in the direction needed, no more. If the fitting leaks around the threads, wrap them with a couple of layers of Teflon tape. Over-tightening can result in a cracked female tank fitting, if not immediately, within a short time. That little “ping” sound is the last thing you want to hear coming from the tank.
As long as you have the entire system apart, now would be an excellent time to either rebuild or replace your toilet pump. If it’s a top quality manual toilet that’s 5-7 years old, rebuild it. But if you can replace the pump with the identical make/model for little more than the price of a rebuild or “service” kit, I’d definitely replace the pump. Or spend a bit more to upgrade to a higher quality toilet that has a longer life expectancy. If you’ve been considering upgrading to the “push button convenience of an electric toilet, now is a good time. Several are available as “conversion kits” that allow you to re-use your existing bowl, seat and lid.
--Peggie
REPLACING HOSES IN AN EXISTING SYSTEM
Measure the amount of new hose you’ll need and buy it (add at least one extra foot as a safety margin). Use sanitation hose throughout the entire system, including the toilet intake and tank vent.
Map out your entire plan and determine solutions to all problems and obstacles before you remove a single hose. Photos can be very useful in helping you map it out, and in finding out what you'll be up against in hard to see areas. In some cases, real time video can even be your eyes while doing the work.
If you discover that you have questions that need answers, or problems you aren’t sure how to solve, ask those questions before you start any work, because it’s always cheaper and easier to do it right the first time than it is to do it over!
Prepping to do any work on any part of the sanitation system starts with thoroughly rinsing out the whole system with plenty of clean water before taking anything apart. Pump out the holding tank VERY thoroughly with lots of clean fresh water. Adding Raritan C.P. to the rinse will remove most of the odor. Rinse out the toilet, all hoses and any macerators or manual pumps VERY thoroughly with lots and lots of clean water. If the hoses REALLY stink, it may help to smear a healthy glob of Vicks Salve under your nose before you start. If possible, schedule your project for a time when you can do it on a cool day. And be sure to create plenty of ventilation, especially in any closed areas in the bilge.
Put plastic garbage bags or disposable aluminum roasting or loaf pans under hose connections to catch any spills. (Warming hoses with a blow dryer makes them easier to remove and replace). Have a couple of rolls paper shop towels (super heavy duty paper towels) handy...you'll need them.
Now you’re ready to start the real work.
Remove the highest hose connection first to minimize drips, and stick plugs (available from any hardware store) in the ends of the hose. Work on only one hose at a time...and take each section of hose all the way off the boat as soon as you get it loose (your dock mates may insist you take it all the way off the dock!). When taking a hose off a fitting, have a disposable aluminum roasting or loaf pan or a plastic trash bag under the connection to catch any drainage. Have lots of shop towels handy to mop up what misses the pan.
Removing hoses becomes much easier if you’ll heat them with a heat gun (I’ve always preferred using a blow dryer) to soften them up before trying to work them off. Unless you want to also replace all the fittings, do not pry them off with a screwdriver or saw them off...the screwdriver blade will dimple the fitting, the saw will cut into it, and the new hose won’t seal.
It’s often much easier to pull new hose through inaccessible places if you connect it to the old hose and pull the new through as you pull the old out. Use a male-to male connector (available from the plumbing department in any box store or really good hardware store). Use PVC cement to secure the ends of both hoses onto it. Do not use duct tape…it won’t hold if you have to pull hard. Do not hose clamps or anything that can get hung up as you pull the hose through, and be sure to butt the ends of the hose tightly together to create the smoothest uninterrupted surface possible. After you’ve pulled it through, cut the new hose cleanly behind the connector and dispose of the old hose and connector.
Raritan Sani-Flex is the only hose I recommend any more...it has a 10 yr warranty against odor permeation and has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent almost as tight as a hairpin without kinking. Trident 101/102 (identical except 102 has a white "skin" on it) are as odor permeation resistant, but are only suitable for long STRAIGHT runs because they're as stiff as a wooden plank, making it necessary to use in-line radius fittings for any bends of more than 2-3 degrees.
To put the new hose onto fittings, heat the hose with a blow dryer (use a heat gun only if you really know what you’re doing with one) to soften it. Be careful, and be patientl! You only want to warm the hose enough to slide it onto a fitting; overheating hose can damage it, causing collapse or tearing. Smear a little dish soap (or even better, K-Y surgical jelly; it’s much slipperier than soap and water soluble, so it dries out) on the inside of the hose and the outside of the fitting to lubricate the connection. Don’t use Vaseline or any grease...and don’t use ANY cement or sealant...only Teflon tape on the threaded end of tank fittings. Double clamp all the hose connections with screws on opposite sides of the hose, or at least 90 degrees apart if 180 degrees isn’t possible.
Important note: Plastic tank fittings are NPT (National Pipe Thread) standard, which are slightly (so slightly that it’s not noticeable to the naked eye in such a short piece) tapered. They’re also self-sealing,so DO NOT USE ANY SEALANT! So when threading fittings into the tank, tighten only one turn past “hand tight,” plus enough to aim an elbow in the direction needed, no more. If the fitting leaks around the threads, wrap them with a couple of layers of Teflon tape. Over-tightening can result in a cracked female tank fitting, if not immediately, within a short time. That little “ping” sound is the last thing you want to hear coming from the tank.
As long as you have the entire system apart, now would be an excellent time to either rebuild or replace your toilet pump. If it’s a top quality manual toilet that’s 5-7 years old, rebuild it. But if you can replace the pump with the identical make/model for little more than the price of a rebuild or “service” kit, I’d definitely replace the pump. Or spend a bit more to upgrade to a higher quality toilet that has a longer life expectancy. If you’ve been considering upgrading to the “push button convenience of an electric toilet, now is a good time. Several are available as “conversion kits” that allow you to re-use your existing bowl, seat and lid.
--Peggie
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You are a jewel, I just bought your book based on so many recommendations!