Has anyone upgraded their inverter/charger on a Passage 42? I really like the Victron Multiplus units but I am struggling to find a place to mount it. I'd prefer to get it out of the engine enclosure but can't find a suitable mounting place. It is almost 6 inches thick and a little to big to mount under the generator controls by the aft cabin. The door wouldn't fully open, I think. Also looking at the Xantrex 3000 Pro Marine unit. I think it would fit that area. Thoughts?
Upgrading Inverter/charger
- Thread starter HoosierSailor
- Start date
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,486
When mounting your inverter, it should be near your battery house bank. This minimizes the length of the DC lines to the inverter. Long DC lines mean a potential voltage loss or more expense is paid to increase the diameter of the wires to minimize the loss. This is not true for the AC you generate from the inverter.
Look for a dry space out of the way near the house bank. The back of a cabinet or closet is often used.
Look for a dry space out of the way near the house bank. The back of a cabinet or closet is often used.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,486
I’m searching for an inverter. 2000 to 3000 watts. Have not decided, yet. I like the Victron product line. A little pricy but you get a pure sine wave. Bluetooth compatibility with VictronConnect.
The Xantrex product is also well respected.
It is a tough call. It may end up with which ever is available when I’m ready to place the order.
The Xantrex product is also well respected.
It is a tough call. It may end up with which ever is available when I’m ready to place the order.
Gotcha! I really like the Victron line and they seem to be very well respected. Just struggling to find a unit the right size to mount close to the batteries. I do not want to mount it in the engine/generator compartment. So that leaves me the aft door or the port side of the compartment
Victron has become the default standard for electrical system monitoring. That's a huge plus in the long run.
The Multiplus Inverter/Chargers can be wired in parallel, two smaller units might fit the space better than one larger unit.
The Multiplus Inverter/Chargers can be wired in parallel, two smaller units might fit the space better than one larger unit.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,486
It is always a challenge when I think about adding bling to my boat. Do I really need it? Where will it fit? Does it compliment my use or complicate my sailing?
Getting the new sails, rebuilding the engine/transmission, and adding a windlass all seemed like simple decisions.
Getting the new sails, rebuilding the engine/transmission, and adding a windlass all seemed like simple decisions.
Depends on the bells and whistles you are wanting for your install. I've had good experience with Renogy inverter/charger: Renogy REGO 12V 3000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger w/ LCD Display
Pure sine wave inverter with support for 4-stage charging profiles and configurable for various battery chemistry. It is barebones, but does have bluetooth for monitoring/config from your phone. It will co-exist nicely with any solar charge controller you might have installed. Dimensions are 20.1 x 11.2 x 7.6 in. 63 pounds
I agree you want the connections to the battery to be fused on the positive link and as short as possible. Follow ABYC for sizing the 12v cables. Out of the engine compartment is better. Cables in the engine compartment need to have proper insulation rating and larger size to manage the heat.
Pure sine wave inverter with support for 4-stage charging profiles and configurable for various battery chemistry. It is barebones, but does have bluetooth for monitoring/config from your phone. It will co-exist nicely with any solar charge controller you might have installed. Dimensions are 20.1 x 11.2 x 7.6 in. 63 pounds
I agree you want the connections to the battery to be fused on the positive link and as short as possible. Follow ABYC for sizing the 12v cables. Out of the engine compartment is better. Cables in the engine compartment need to have proper insulation rating and larger size to manage the heat.
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The engine compartment is one of the worst places you can mount an inverter/charger. They all produce less power with increased temperature. Victron publishes their output at different temperatures. I don't know about any other manufacturers.
They can be mounted in different orientations as long as adequate airflow for cooling is available. The top of the 3000 is removeable to facilitate better airflow in a side or back mounted orientation.
They can be mounted in different orientations as long as adequate airflow for cooling is available. The top of the 3000 is removeable to facilitate better airflow in a side or back mounted orientation.
Several. Our 1991 P42 came with an original Heart Interface 1600 charger/inverter when we purchased her in 2002. It worked okay, but it seemed to be reaching the end of its life; there were issues. In 2003 I began the process of finding a replacement. My plan was to go with an Xantrex 2000, but Eddie at Hunter intervened after one of my posts on this site and advised to me go with the Freedom 25. He said it would be more compatible with the size of the house bank. At the time Xantrex had an online outlet store and just so happened to have an Xantrex re-certified Freedom 25 for half the price of new. A consignment shop took the old unit and sold it with $350 in proceeds to me.
Installed the device myself with minor modifications and it has remained to this day. I also installed a Link 1000 battery monitor to help keep a more accurate track of AH absorption and consumption. Our boat at the time also had two 8D wets, which I later replaced, then after that ten year set of wets changed to AGMs. After twelve years of use I replaced that set two years ago with AGMs that had a bit more capacity.
So far we're very happy with the performance. The Onan 8KW Genset comes in handy during our extended cruises to recharge the house bank every other day, heat water and some cooking. It usually runs for about 1.5 hours to bring the house bank from a minus 160 AH down to a minus 30 AH to reach the float state.
The engine room houses all this equipment with no determinate ill effects. Whether a hotter climate would make a difference, no idea, but our moderate climate seems to help prevent things from getting overly warm.
Another option is separate inverter and charger. This might let you be a bit more creative with fitting two units with smaller dimensions in your space(s). It will be a bit more wiring and separate controls, though.
Mark
Mark
Nothing but good things to say about Victron and multiplus inv/charger. I highly recommend getting the BMV 712 Smart battery monitor (smart just means BT version). The Victron multiplus is extremely configurable. I understand the issue of where to put it. I have an Island Packet 44, and I ended up installing it in the back of a pantry. I had to remove the shelves to mount it to the back, and then trim out a portion of the shelves to go around the unit. Works well and the pantry door has a louvered face for ventilation. Depending on which unit you go with, the DC cabling can get really big, like 2/0 or 4/0. Another reason to keep it close to the batteries.
Have you considered a MasterVolt unit? They have a pretty good reputation,
Mass Sine 12/2000 (230V/60Hz) | Mastervolt
12/2000 (230/60Hz) inverter. Ideal for small and medium-sized applications. No humming with HF technology.
www.mastervolt.com
All of these different than Victron options still suffer the same dimensional issues facing the OP, unless his space is so close to the edge that a half inch or so in any direction makes a difference.
I've owned inverter/chargers from Trace, Outback, Magnum, Mastervolt, and Victron (currently have Victron). Of these, Mastervolt is the only one I would never buy again. Its configurability is abysmal, and it is designed to be tied into an entire Mastervolt ecosystem with few options to use well as a standalone.
Victron is almost the same in terms of tying one into a Victron ecosystem, although they do have better abilities to program them through a computer and USB-serial interface. However, this programming is in Sanskrit and can be very confusing for someone not versed in "Victron". Victron actually requires them to be "professionally" installed, although few hire one. There is no direct support from Victron - you must go through the dealer you bought it from if you have any questions or issues. If you buy from Amazon or similar on-line places, you are on your own from the start. Of three Victron units I've owned, one came DOA, and one began to fail after a year. Victron's popularity in the recreational boat market right now is about their ecosystem as it applies to lithium batteries. This market has become infatuated with complicated centralized engineering science projects around batteries, and Victron feeds into that with a lot of expensive gear that is not always best in class but necessary for the system. Once there, you are locked in for good.
Having said the above, I'd buy another Victron Multiplus if the current one needs replacement. The reason is that it does a few things I like, and it exactly fits the space I have to mount it. I wouldn't say it performs any better or worse than the others I've owned. The Multiplus, a control panel for it, and a battery monitor are the only Victron gear we have, so locking into an ecosystem is of no concern to me.
Of the above interter/chargers I've experience with, Trace and Outback were my favorites in terms of performance, configurability, and ease of use. Magnum was close behind. Trace has been folded into Xantrex, and Outback might not be making the mobile units anymore.
Mark
I've owned inverter/chargers from Trace, Outback, Magnum, Mastervolt, and Victron (currently have Victron). Of these, Mastervolt is the only one I would never buy again. Its configurability is abysmal, and it is designed to be tied into an entire Mastervolt ecosystem with few options to use well as a standalone.
Victron is almost the same in terms of tying one into a Victron ecosystem, although they do have better abilities to program them through a computer and USB-serial interface. However, this programming is in Sanskrit and can be very confusing for someone not versed in "Victron". Victron actually requires them to be "professionally" installed, although few hire one. There is no direct support from Victron - you must go through the dealer you bought it from if you have any questions or issues. If you buy from Amazon or similar on-line places, you are on your own from the start. Of three Victron units I've owned, one came DOA, and one began to fail after a year. Victron's popularity in the recreational boat market right now is about their ecosystem as it applies to lithium batteries. This market has become infatuated with complicated centralized engineering science projects around batteries, and Victron feeds into that with a lot of expensive gear that is not always best in class but necessary for the system. Once there, you are locked in for good.
Having said the above, I'd buy another Victron Multiplus if the current one needs replacement. The reason is that it does a few things I like, and it exactly fits the space I have to mount it. I wouldn't say it performs any better or worse than the others I've owned. The Multiplus, a control panel for it, and a battery monitor are the only Victron gear we have, so locking into an ecosystem is of no concern to me.
Of the above interter/chargers I've experience with, Trace and Outback were my favorites in terms of performance, configurability, and ease of use. Magnum was close behind. Trace has been folded into Xantrex, and Outback might not be making the mobile units anymore.
Mark
Well I wouldn't say Victron uses sanskrit, but they do use actual electrical and engineering terms. I dont have a problem with that. But you brought up a good point about buying from a good dealer. That is important. I highly recommend PKYS.com for Victron marine charging systems. Excellent service, lots of support when needed. There are also several very good Victron forums and Facebook groups for support. The people that like Victron are pretty dedicated to it.
We have had Victron gear since 2019. I have more blue boxes than I can count and zero failures. I installed the first Multiplus 3kVA in 2020 and it would start and run a 16kBTU Cruiseair AC without a soft start. That was with AGMs too. It also ran two of the 16k ACs when our diver disconnected our shore power and we didn’t notice. Eventually the 250A class T blew (couldn‘t find bigger during COVID) but there were no complaints from the Multi.
There are two sizes of the 3kVA Multis, the original which is shorter and fatter, and the Multiplus II which is taller and slimmer. I have also seen installations where they are laying down. Maybe that helps find a spot.
There are two sizes of the 3kVA Multis, the original which is shorter and fatter, and the Multiplus II which is taller and slimmer. I have also seen installations where they are laying down. Maybe that helps find a spot.
It is not necessary to completely decorate your electrical system with blue boxes. Victron's communication system is becoming the industry standard for linking devices to monitoring systems and each other. An ABYC compliant LiFePO4 system does require the devices talk to each other, especially the regulator and the battery's BMS. Arco, Zeus, and Epoch are 3 companies that make compatible batteries or regulators.
Depending on your use and the total system engine room heat may not be a big problem. Unless the alternator output is connected to the inverter/charger engine heat won't affect charging. Heat could be an issue when using a high demand AC device while motoring, however that may be mitigated by improving engine room ventilation.
As other's have mentioned, Victron support is only through dealers and specifically the dealer you purchased the device from. To the best of my knowledge Victron devices on Amazon are not sold by Amazon, rather it is through independent companies. I had a minor issue with one controller I bought through Amazon, it was resolved by that dealer. IIRC, Victron did provide the dealer's contact info when I gave them the S/N.
Depending on your use and the total system engine room heat may not be a big problem. Unless the alternator output is connected to the inverter/charger engine heat won't affect charging. Heat could be an issue when using a high demand AC device while motoring, however that may be mitigated by improving engine room ventilation.
As other's have mentioned, Victron support is only through dealers and specifically the dealer you purchased the device from. To the best of my knowledge Victron devices on Amazon are not sold by Amazon, rather it is through independent companies. I had a minor issue with one controller I bought through Amazon, it was resolved by that dealer. IIRC, Victron did provide the dealer's contact info when I gave them the S/N.
I don’t think this is correct. There is nothing I can find in E-11 or E-13 with this requirement. E-13 does require the chargers to be programmed to meet the battery manufacturers charge profile, but not necessarily communicate with the BMS. Also the BMS is required to be able to disconnect without reliance on the programmed functions of the chargers. While it’s certainly nice to have a BMS that will shutdown a compatible regulator before disconnecting the battery, it‘s not a requirement.
It's more accurate to say that it is desirable for devices to communicate with each other. There is no such requirement in the ABYC standards.
Communication between devices is Victron's strong point, but I would caution anyone thinking that a non-Victron LFP battery integrates seamlessly into the system. Lithionics and Pylontech are exceptions and there may be others. Epoch made waves a year ago with their Victron integration, but in reality it only offers a subset of the functionality available with batteries from Victron, Lithionics, and Pylontech.
Getting back to the OP's original question, have you done a load analysis? Are you sure you need 3000VA? The MP 2000 is much slimmer and may be adequate, depending on your electrical budget. Two 2k units in parallel is also an option.
Communication between devices is Victron's strong point, but I would caution anyone thinking that a non-Victron LFP battery integrates seamlessly into the system. Lithionics and Pylontech are exceptions and there may be others. Epoch made waves a year ago with their Victron integration, but in reality it only offers a subset of the functionality available with batteries from Victron, Lithionics, and Pylontech.
Getting back to the OP's original question, have you done a load analysis? Are you sure you need 3000VA? The MP 2000 is much slimmer and may be adequate, depending on your electrical budget. Two 2k units in parallel is also an option.