Winter cover q’s

[fred1diver]

Hello everyone
Just wondering what fabric you like for winter covers?
The last one I made was Sunbrella, but I was wondering if anything would be better?
Thanks in advance
Fred

 

[dlochner]

Canvass. It's heavier and when wet it shrinks up a bit making it more secure. That's what Fairclough uses.

 

[Leeward Rail]

I don't bother with a cover. Neither do the majority of the 100 boats in winter storage here.

If I did make a cover, I would likely find a used tractor trailer tarp(s) and modify that along with vents. There is one boat here that has one, and it's survived for ages and ages. Venting mandatory because it doesn't breathe at all.

 

[fred1diver]

I personally use a tarp, it has ventilation, but my customer wants a winter cover for here in Ontario, he loves the one I made him in the past but he is getting a bigger boat and wants a cover.
Last one I made was sunbrella but I am looking for something different mainly because of the price of sunbrella.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I don't bother with a cover. Neither do the majority of the 100 boats in winter storage here.

Do you own a boat repair business?
gelcoat cracks and crevices along with spaces between any fittings will accumulate water and freeze creating avoidable problems, repairs and maintenance by simply covering a boat. Why take a chance?

 

[David in Sandusky]

I also don't bother with a cover. 48 winters on Lake Erie, and no problems of any kind from freezing water in gelcoat, or where fittings are bedded. I do replace our varnished wood with pine "winter wood" through the winter. IMO Buying installing, taking down, and maintaining a cover is a lot of time and money invested for reduction of a very small (if any) risk.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Look at any boat cover site that allows you to order online. They usually list the materials. I have a one made from Travel Tuff. It's heavy duty stuff. Most marine/auto fabric suppliers will have a good selection.

 

[fred1diver]

Ok, thank you all, very good insight

 

[Leeward Rail]

Why take a chance?

Decision based on how many good old boats are here, that have never had covers since they were built in the 70s, that haven't had real issues.

Some people express worries about deck coring, but that's really a different problem that should be solved by potting all deck penetrations. Rather spend time doing that than screwing around with a full cover that handles snow loads.

 

[dlochner]

Over the years I have covered my boat with a Fairclough full cover and frame. It takes about a day to put it and the same to take it down. The cover allows me to work on the boat regardless of the weather. While other boat owners are not at the marina or bundled up against the cold, I am often in shirt sleeves working below.

The main concerns I have with an uncovered boat are the deck and cockpit drains. If they become frozen and split a lot of water will enter the boat when the thaw happens. Cockpit drains can become blocked with debris, i.e., fallen leaves which can cause the cockpit to fill with water and eventually leak into the cabin.

Second Star is winter stored in a very exposed yard with a ~130 mile fetch across Lake Ontario in an area that routinely sees over 100 inches of snow each year. If it was located in a drier less exposed area I might think differently about the cover, on the other hand, the ability to work inside the boat in most any weather is a real plus.

 

[dLj]

A question I have is regarding the cover and added wind resistance. I put my boat in stands and not in a cradle. A cradle might be more stable, at least insurance companies think so. But I get concerned being on stands and if there is a major wind storm, how much more does that add to the likelihood of the boat getting knocked down off the stands.i don't have the water concerns with my specific boat - even if the cockpit were to fill with water, I still would not get water inside my boat. My boat has a bridge deck. My side decks, while I do have a notable toe rail, the water would just pour over the top of it and also not invade my interior.

But it would be a major disaster if the boat fell over off the stands due to the wind.

Any thoughts on the added windage?

dj

 

[dlochner]

A question I have is regarding the cover and added wind resistance. I put my boat in stands and not in a cradle. A cradle might be more stable, at least insurance companies think so. But I get concerned being on stands and if there is a major wind storm, how much more does that add to the likelihood of the boat getting knocked down off the stands.i don't have the water concerns with my specific boat - even if the cockpit were to fill with water, I still would not get water inside my boat. My boat has a bridge deck. My side decks, while I do have a notable toe rail, the water would just pour over the top of it and also not invade my interior.

But it would be a major disaster if the boat fell over off the stands due to the wind.

Any thoughts on the added windage?

dj

Funny you should mention that. Exactly 14 years ago today I took this photo of my boat. Insurance covered the repair cost with no deductible and no one would tell me what the root cause of the accident was beyond the wind blew it over.

I believe the root cause of the accident was the marina's poor blocking and the jack stand design. On February 19, 2011 a strong cold front passed over Lake Ontario with winds in the 40-50 kt range. My boat was the first in a line of boats stored near the large barn on the left. The wind came at about a 45° angle to the west side of the barn. As it gusted and shifted it caused my boat to begin rocking on its keel, fore and aft. Eventually this rocking caused one or more jack stands to dance away from the boat. At some point the boat was so unbalanced it fell over.

The boat was inadequately blocked. This was the first year the yard used jack stands (made by Hostar, an important factor), so they had little experience with jack stands. I do not know how much training they had on their proper use. There are 2 critical factors when blocking a boat, the keel must be supported in 2 places and the chain between the jack stand connected high on the jack stand. Brownell stands are designed this way, Hostar stands are not. When the wind started gusting the boat began rocking on the single block. This caused the stands to start moving eventually at least one stand moved into a position that was not stabilizing the boat and down she went. The Brownel method of changing the stands together helps to mitigate stand movement, the Hostar stands do not. Those are the critical issues that set the stage for the accident.

Contributing factors were the boat's placement first in line next to the barn. Winds buffeting off the barn would be accentuate any rocking and boat movement. The cover provided increased windage, which didn't help things out. There may have been some ice beneath the stands which made it easier for the stands to slide out.

This cover had been used for about 6 or 7 years when the boat was on a cradle in roughly the same position and in the same weather conditions with no issue. Had the boat been blocked properly, the accident may not have happened. Had the boat not be first in line, it may not have happened, had the boat been uncovered, it may not have happened.

 

[shemandr]

Ouch!
I've wondered about wind and boat covers, especially those with frames. The frame on my 356 was well above my head standing on the cockpit seats. I think that boatyard used seven stands. I had incidents of the cover ripping, the frame collapsing but no walking of the stands. I'll note that the boatyard set the boats so that the bow faced the North where the strongest winter winds blow from.
The back draft off structures is real. Here in Florida we've lost shrubs which fell away from a wall while the wind was blowing toward that wall. It's a repeating event.

 

[dlochner]

I think that boatyard used seven stands.

I probably should have had 7 stands, not 5. The rule of thumb is a stand every 8-10 feet. A 30' boat is at the outer edge of that rule.

The Hostar stands chain from the top, the Brownel stands from the middle. Chaining at the top allows the stands to move more and the base can kick out. That doesn't happen with chaining from the middle.

 

[Tally Ho]

I have been covering Tally Ho since the 2nd season I had her (about 9:years now). First year I used tarps and a wooden frame…real pain in the arse.

Then I bought a canvas cover and have used it ever since. Works great, but if I were to do it again, I think I would get the edges a little longer. In some places, it comes down over the toe rail a decent amount. In other areas, not so much. But that does provide plenty of ventilation

i have seen several boats blown over in my marina (we are in the Windy City after all). I think all of them did not have a cover. So I am not too sure that the cover creates that much more tendency for the boat to blow over.

i chose to cover my boat because I don’t think the freeze/thaw cycles are good for a,”Good Old Boat” like Tally Ho. Plus, it helps keep any deck leaks to a minimum since most water is shed off the cover and onto the ground. Snow and ice piling up on my deck is something I want to avoid if I can.

Greg

 

[TimFromLI]

I think most covers are made from top gun my last 2 were. I like using a cover since I can leave some hatches open for better ventilation. Keeps the cockpit dry and warm, and keeps the boat mostly dry. I also store my rib on the bow which keeps it out of the sun. As far as getting blown over, nearly every boat in my yard has a winter cover or shrink wrap. I haven't seen any blown over, ever. We had gusts to 50mph just this past Sunday. The earthquake last spring worried me more than wind. still no boats toppled.

 

[dLj]

That's an unhappy photo. You had your mast down. Lucky you. I don't take my mast down. That would be a big job. Although maybe I should from sometime in the not distant future. I've been in boat yards where the wind has blown over boats with their masts up - serious damages both to the boat that fell over and the boats that mast hit...

dj

 

[dlochner]

Because we don't have open Travel Lifts in the yards I've used, the mast comes down every year. Once you get the hang of taking them down, it's not that big a deal and it forces you to retune the mast every spring which is probably a good thing, not to mention working on the mast and inspecting the rigging is much easier when the mast is horizontal and 3' off the ground.

@Tally Ho I notice your keel is only blocked in one place while your neighbor has it blocked in two places. Is there a reason for the single block, single blocking was one of the causes of my boat falling over. Oh, and do you have Handicap sticker for your boat?

 

[Leeward Rail]

Some real good comments here !

Cover or no cover is truly a "it depends" situation. That would also apply to cover material and design.
How is the boat stored ?
What weather conditions are involved ?
How bad is the UV ?
How much are you covering ?

Lake Ontario in an area that routinely sees over 100 inches of snow each year. If it was located in a drier less exposed area I might think differently about the cover, on the other hand, the ability to work inside the boat in most any weather is a real plus.

In those conditions a cover really makes sense.
Material and frame would need to handle that snow load.
I would love the ability to work on the boat in winter.

Here on the prairies we don't get much snow, and a cover would be useless to work under unless you had a heater.
Shore power is off all winter so that would be propane or kerosene.
For example Its been below -30 for the last couple weeks.
Wind blows most of the dry snow off the deck. Temperature traditionally doesn't freeze/thaw much at all. Lately, summer and winter are like flipping a switch. The cockpit drains are the big risk, but most of us empty the cockpit before it melts in spring.

Deck penetrations can be a problem, but they are a problem in summer too. To me, it's the one of the first tasks when you get a used boat... Pot every hole and rebed. Problem solved long term.

I've been in boat yards where the wind has blown over boats with their masts up

Because we don't have open Travel Lifts in the yards I've used, the mast comes down every year.

No stands here. all are cradles or trailers.
Biggest boat is currently 35ft.

Most are trailer launched with a caterpillar. For this reason, most boats are stored mast up. The ones that do take their mast down are usually launched by our "closed" travel lift like @dlochner mentions.

We have some serious blizzards. Based on what I can find online, the record speed is 107kmh/66mph in January 2016.We had plow winds one summer that tore up trees, but that was summer. The "old timers" here tell me they haven't seen a boat topple in storage.

In the time I have had storage there, I see at least 1 cover that failed it's attachment, beating the crap out of their boats, every spring. Like anything else that's a design or maintenance issue but it's one more thing to worry about.

If I ever have spare time, I may make a cover, for the cabin top, mainly to protect the wood from UV, but in this climate area I won't lose sleep over it.

Once you get the hang of taking them down, it's not that big a deal and it forces you to retune the mast every spring which is probably a good thing

Agreed. I need to set a maintenance schedule for occasional mast removal.

I dodged a bullet with this boat. It was stored mast down for most of its life, due to crane method.

Previous owners put spray foam in the keel stepped mast, without a drain outlet. Likely to try prevent water in the bilge.
Had I not found it before I stepped the mast, it would likely have damaged it when the water froze.

Is a mast up cover problematic compared to mast down ? Other than cost and setup time.