I'm installing nav lighting on a Compac 16. The e-Bay outfit from whom I ordered a combination stern/anchor light for the top of the mast, at such a low price, took so long shipping that I thought I'd been scammed and since I'd mistakenly deleted the e-mail correspondence I just cussed and ordered another from Defender. Or course the day after I got the Defender notice of shipping I got one from the e-Bay company. I'll have two. So here's the idea: What if I mount one of them above the rudder as a motoring stern light and use the front 225 degrees on a dedicated circuit and switch to light the cockpit? So far I like the idea.
With hopes I'm not duplicating: COCPIT LIGHTING
- Thread starter Urban Hermit
- Start date
I don’t think I understand your plan clearly, but I think you should review the regulations and stick to conventional navigation lighting. A cockpit light is a separate function, and an ideal cockpit light is soft/diffuse not harsh/focused. (An option to make the cockpit light very dim is very handy, so it doesn’t interfere as much with your night vision abilities.)
edit: I don’t know what you paid but it might be best to eat the postage and return one of the lights
edit: I don’t know what you paid but it might be best to eat the postage and return one of the lights
Good thoughts, Cap'n, especially about night vision. As I would be able to use the forward 225 degrees independently of the nav lighting it wouldn't impact regulations. I'll be wired with diodes so that one switch turns on red/green/lower stern light for power, another red/green mast-top 135 for sail, and a third for anchor 360. I can set up a fourth switch (I'm thinking on the inside of the transom) for the forward 225 of the duplicate light. Maybe but translucent red tape over the 225, too.
First, the use of masthead tri-colors are not without controversy. Perhaps the biggest issue is the light is located above where most people look for navigation, i.e. most look for Nav lights closer to the horizon and water than 20 ft up. The advantage to tri-colors are 2, off shore the light will be visible long before a deck light is visible and with one bulb there is less current drain than with 3 bulbs in deck lighting. The latter advantage is no longer there as LED lights draw so little current.
Stick with bow red/green nav lights with a stern light aft and a "steaming light" on the mast for use with motoring. We sailors refer to the forward facing white light used when motoring as the steaming light. The COLREGS and the USCG Regs refer to it as masthead light, confusing? Yes. If you plan to anchor out, then a dedicated all-around white light at the top of the mast is needed. All of the navigation lights, regardless of position must be USCG approved.
A good source for LED lights is MarineBeam.com. Good quality reasonably priced.
www.boatingmag.com
Stick with bow red/green nav lights with a stern light aft and a "steaming light" on the mast for use with motoring. We sailors refer to the forward facing white light used when motoring as the steaming light. The COLREGS and the USCG Regs refer to it as masthead light, confusing? Yes. If you plan to anchor out, then a dedicated all-around white light at the top of the mast is needed. All of the navigation lights, regardless of position must be USCG approved.
A good source for LED lights is MarineBeam.com. Good quality reasonably priced.
USCG Navigation Lights Requirements | Boating Mag
Learn what type of navigation lighting is required on boats.
www.boatingmag.com
I won't use a tricolor because it costs too much. I'm not going to spend close to two bills for a light I may never use and despite the fact that I'm rigging for night use I may never. I can't use a bow red-green because I've got a couple of chainplates coming up from the bow stem, I don't like lights clamped to the bow pulpit, and I've already mounted red and green on the sides of the cabin. Terminology: yes, "steaming light" and "masthead light," even though commonly mounted partway up the mast. We sailors know that.
Even though I've just bought a 16 I'm not a novice. 14, 16, 18, 20, 23, 29, and 33 (obvious victim of threefootitis) in my past plus 24, 32, and 34 stinkpots. I used the term "mast-top" to distinguish from steaming/masthead. Current draw is not a consideration. The forward-facing 225 on top of the rudder post is no more confusing to other boats than a big flashlight and no problem at all at anchor. I don't see the problem other than it's outside the box. And by the way, Chapman's Piloting is a good source, too, as were sailing courses through USPS.
Even though I've just bought a 16 I'm not a novice. 14, 16, 18, 20, 23, 29, and 33 (obvious victim of threefootitis) in my past plus 24, 32, and 34 stinkpots. I used the term "mast-top" to distinguish from steaming/masthead. Current draw is not a consideration. The forward-facing 225 on top of the rudder post is no more confusing to other boats than a big flashlight and no problem at all at anchor. I don't see the problem other than it's outside the box. And by the way, Chapman's Piloting is a good source, too, as were sailing courses through USPS.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,500
Saw these on a 10ft dingy at the boat show today they would meet the CG requirement for a small boat.
mast head or all around white.
mast head or all around white.
Even though the light on your rudder post would be 225° forward facing, it would not be compliant because the cabin and mast will block the light. The regulations also call for the forward facing 225° to be at the centerline of the boat and show 22.5° abaft of the beam on each side. As soon as you move the tiller and the light rotates, it will not meet that requirement.
The lights John saw at the boat show are the ones I use for my dinghy, nice very functional lights, not at all economical.
Here's the link to the relevant CFR for navigation lights.
Federal Register :: Request Access
www.ecfr.gov
<sigh> I'll go through it again. For sailing I'm going to have a 135 stern light at the top of the mast plus separated red/green.
When under power I'm going to have a 135 stern light mounted on top of the rudder and use the 225 white on top of the mast. When I'm under power the rudder will almost always be centered. Significant deflections will be momentary. Anchored, just the 135 and the 225 at the top of the mast.
My thought was that as long as I'm going to wind up with two combination stern/anchor lights if I mount one on the rudder instead of the standard stern light, I can use the forward-facing 225 as a cockpit light. Assume I'll have enough wires, switches, and diodes to be able to illuminate the correct combinations for sail or power with the contemplated cockpit light on its own switched circuit.
For a 16' sailboat the requirements are these: Under sail, red/green in one light or separate; no forward white required; 135 white stern without height requirement
Power: red/green as above; 225 forward white at least one meter above red/green; 135 white stern, any height. My arrangement will have the 225 white on top of the mast,
not mid-mast as a steaming light. The regulations do not specify a maximum elevation
above the red/green, only a minimum. I'll be legal and if I use the second 135/225 on
top of the rudder, I'll have a cockpit to find the potato chip I dropped.
I realize every responder is trying to be helpful (thank y'all) and the original post with the original idea is way back there. and details got lost.
(What a great name for a yawl from a southern port: "THANK.")
When under power I'm going to have a 135 stern light mounted on top of the rudder and use the 225 white on top of the mast. When I'm under power the rudder will almost always be centered. Significant deflections will be momentary. Anchored, just the 135 and the 225 at the top of the mast.
My thought was that as long as I'm going to wind up with two combination stern/anchor lights if I mount one on the rudder instead of the standard stern light, I can use the forward-facing 225 as a cockpit light. Assume I'll have enough wires, switches, and diodes to be able to illuminate the correct combinations for sail or power with the contemplated cockpit light on its own switched circuit.
For a 16' sailboat the requirements are these: Under sail, red/green in one light or separate; no forward white required; 135 white stern without height requirement
Power: red/green as above; 225 forward white at least one meter above red/green; 135 white stern, any height. My arrangement will have the 225 white on top of the mast,
not mid-mast as a steaming light. The regulations do not specify a maximum elevation
above the red/green, only a minimum. I'll be legal and if I use the second 135/225 on
top of the rudder, I'll have a cockpit to find the potato chip I dropped.
I realize every responder is trying to be helpful (thank y'all) and the original post with the original idea is way back there. and details got lost.
(What a great name for a yawl from a southern port: "THANK.")
I'm pretty sure everybody responding to you knows the USCG requirements for lighting on your 16 foot sail boat.
I'll speak for myself in that what I'm not understanding is exactly how do you propose to change the colors on the lights you have.
You currently have purchased two combination tricolor LED navigation light and anchor light fixtures. The construction of these as far as I've ever seen is there is one single white light LED sitting in the middle of a fixture where the aft facing section has a white lens, and the forward facing section has a red and green lens on the respective sides for port and starboard. Then there is a second bulb that sits in a clear lens 360 degrees for the anchor light in a separate light fixture part of that light structure.
Typically when I've wired these masthead combination lights I need three wires up the mast, two separately switched 12V + wires and one 12V - (ground) that works for both bulbs. The same wiring would work for the light you say you are putting on the rudder... How do you expect to change the color patterns? The only way I know to do that is to change the lenses - are you proposing to climb the mast?
I'm not understanding how you are actually going to achieve the changing color patterns of the two lights as described above.
dj
I'll speak for myself in that what I'm not understanding is exactly how do you propose to change the colors on the lights you have.
You currently have purchased two combination tricolor LED navigation light and anchor light fixtures. The construction of these as far as I've ever seen is there is one single white light LED sitting in the middle of a fixture where the aft facing section has a white lens, and the forward facing section has a red and green lens on the respective sides for port and starboard. Then there is a second bulb that sits in a clear lens 360 degrees for the anchor light in a separate light fixture part of that light structure.
Typically when I've wired these masthead combination lights I need three wires up the mast, two separately switched 12V + wires and one 12V - (ground) that works for both bulbs. The same wiring would work for the light you say you are putting on the rudder... How do you expect to change the color patterns? The only way I know to do that is to change the lenses - are you proposing to climb the mast?
I'm not understanding how you are actually going to achieve the changing color patterns of the two lights as described above.
dj
I don't think he has a tricolor.
I think he has red and green deck level running lights and two new masthead (top of the mast type) combination anchor/steaming lights. maybe something like this:https://defender.com/en_us/edson-incandescent-combination-anchor-steaming-navigation-light-67500
I assume from what he said that the combo light could be switched to have only the stern facing light on as well as having only the foreward light on or both on. Is that correct Hermit?
If that's the case one mounted at the top of the mast should be able to cover the white light requirements for sailing, steaming and anchoring.
Now with the other, "extra" combination anchor / steaming light he is going to put that on his rudder and use the foreward facing section of that light as a cockpit light. And, I think, he is also suggesting using the stern facing portion of that light to satisfy the stern light navigation requirement. What confuses me is why you would need to use that stern facing light when there is already one at the top of the mast.
Last edited:
That could be it. That makes more sense.
It seems to me he should never run the mast head as a stern white navigation light - he should mount the second light at a fixed location somewhere on the stern and run the stern light there always a long with his red a green lights. The only time he should run the mast head at 360 is as an anchor light. The steaming light would be used while underway under motor.
It would be really weird to see a boat with a white stern light 40 feet above the red and green light levels. That would sure make me wonder what the heck I was seeing...
dj
Richard, you understand. I've just received the first combination I ordered, through e-Bay, weeks ago, for about $22. It's a cheap Chinese knockoff of the $42 Perko Devender sent me very promptly, ordered well after and arrive days before. Perko goes on the mast, Chinese knockoff goes on the rudder if it goes at all. If I motor at night I'll burn the rudder mount to distinguish myself as a boat under power, and from sailers using anchor lights for their white light requirement. The genius will be in the installation of diodes so I can have red and green illuminated by two circuits that don't otherwise burn the same lights, and so I can flip one switch for nav sailing, another for nav under power, a third for anchor, and perhaps a fourth for the Rube Goldberg cockpit light.
And if you are sailing you will run your stern light from the mast head along with your deck mounted red and green? Why? I can tell you I would hate you if I ran into that light combination at night...
dj
RE; Chinese knockoff goes on the rudder if it goes at all.
Well. you have me confused.
Doesn't the rudder rotate. Meaning the light would point in different directions.
Just forget it.
Mount one light correctly and use a red/white headlamp for cockpit lighting
Gary
Well. you have me confused.
Doesn't the rudder rotate. Meaning the light would point in different directions.
Just forget it.
Mount one light correctly and use a red/white headlamp for cockpit lighting
Gary
Well, why? If you see the red and green you shouldn't be seeing the stern. If you see white and no red or green you are looking at the stern.
Navigation Lights for Powerboats
Power driven vessels underway shall exhibit a masthead light forward, sidelights and a stern light. Vessels less than 12 meters in length may exhibit an all around white light and side lights.
See the image on the right
The Compac 16 has a bridge clearance of 21 or 22 feet so your not looking up at at 40. From your boat the top of his mast is probably only 10-15 feet higher than your eye level.
It's not the slow moving sailboats or dinghies you have to worry about, it is the fast moving powerboats who don't look up that you have to worry about. They don't look up.The Compac 16 has a bridge clearance of 21 or 22 feet so your not looking up at at 40. From your boat the top of his mast is probably only 10-15 feet higher than your eye level.
In my experience many of those guys aren't really looking around enough at all, and particularly at night. I worry about them no matter what my light configuration is. Even in the daytime!
Seriously, small boats are very hard to see at night, particularly if you have an urban area in your background. It doesn't matter if they are looking up or not. If I see or hear one coming at me I have a light I can shine on my sails to be more visable.
Anyway, I believe his configuration with the all around at the top would meet the regs and if he is worried about actually being seen he can burn more lights.
From the side, you would be seeing a red or green, and then the white straight above it. That is for a power boat, small, but not a sail boat. That's the light constellation he's talking about under sail. Then, under motor, to use a non-stationary light mounted on his rudder and the steaming light at his last head.Well, why? If you see the red and green you shouldn't be seeing the stern. If you see white and no red or green you are looking at the stern.
Navigation Lights for Powerboats
Power driven vessels underway shall exhibit a masthead light forward, sidelights and a stern light. Vessels less than 12 meters in length may exhibit an all around white light and side lights.
View attachment 229590
See the image on the right
The Compac 16 has a bridge clearance of 21 or 22 feet so your not looking up at at 40. From your boat the top of his mast is probably only 10-15 feet higher than your eye level.
Given where he has mounted his red and green, I haven't even talked about the concern - if looking straight at the bow of this boat - do you see both red and green lights? Because given their location - it's quite possible these lights are not visible from straight ahead...
Frankly, I'd say @garymalmgren said it best.
dj