Sunken Treasure

[Grumps]

I want to pose a crazy question:
What are your thoughts and/or experience with rebuilding a sunken sailboat? I am considering having one floated and rebuilding her. She’s been down about a year in freshwater. It is believed to have been an act of vandalism, not a hull issue. I am not certain what it is, but I’m leaning towards it being a 1977 Morgan 382. Engine wasn’t operable when she sank, which isn’t a problem for me as I was strongly considering an electric conversion anyway. I guess my biggest concern is with the hull and deck. I expect to replace everything on the interior and I’m not in a hurry to finish the project, more of a hobby. Thanks for any input you may have to offer.

 

[colemj]

No. Just no.

And I'm one that is generally up for this type of thing with all the skills necessary to do it. I wouldn't touch it.

No. You will never complete it, and it will be an albatross around your neck. Even only as a hobby.

Mark

 

[Grumps]

No. Just no.

And I'm one that is generally up for this type of thing with all the skills necessary to do it. I wouldn't touch it.

No. You will never complete it, and it will be an albatross around your neck. Even only as a hobby.

Mark

Yeah, that has crossed my mind.

 

[colemj]

Yeah, that has crossed my mind.

Just to put a finer point on it, I'd wager that you can buy a decent Morgan 382 for $20-25K. There is no way you could reconstruct this wreck for less than that.

Mark

 

[Grumps]

Yeah, that has crossed my mind.

Just to put a finer point on it, I'd wager that you can buy a decent Morgan 382 for $20-25K. There is no way you could reconstruct this wreck for less than that.

Mark

True. If this is the same boat that think it is, I toured it with a previous owner. He was asking $28k and it needed a lot of attention. But, I’m not looking for one to do a quick turnaround and go sailing. I have a 25 footer for that. I do enjoy working on them and trying to keep the older ladies around. Gonna be a tough decision.

 

[kloudie1]

The deck and cabin top core are completely saturated and deamination is happening. All of the interior furniture will be deaminated. All cushions will be ruined .. All wiring will be ruined.. Don't go there!

 

[Davidasailor26]

Practical Sailor also says some 382’s had cored hulls (Morgan 38/382 - Practical Sailor) so I think you’d need to assume the worst - that the hull is cored and delaminated from submersion. That means the recoring and glass work extends beyond the deck potentially to the entire hull. If looking for a project I’d probably try to find something a little less likely to become a total reconstruction effort.

 

[Grumps]

Practical Sailor also says some 382’s had cored hulls (Morgan 38/382 - Practical Sailor) so I think you’d need to assume the worst - that the hull is cored and delaminated from submersion. That means the recoring and glass work extends beyond the deck potentially to the entire hull. If looking for a project I’d probably try to find something a little less likely to become a total reconstruction effort.

Thanks for the info. I was wonder how much of it could be cored.

 

[Grumps]

Practical Sailor also says some 382’s had cored hulls (Morgan 38/382 - Practical Sailor) so I think you’d need to assume the worst - that the hull is cored and delaminated from submersion. That means the recoring and glass work extends beyond the deck potentially to the entire hull. If looking for a project I’d probably try to find something a little less likely to become a total reconstruction effort.

The deck and cabin top core are completely saturated and deamination is happening. All of the interior furniture will be deaminated. All cushions will be ruined .. All wiring will be ruined.. Don't go there!

Thanks! My biggest concern is the hull and decks delaminating. Not sure if just a year submerged in fresh water would cause it to delaminate, or if it would take longer for damage to occur. I would plan on a total interior gutting. Any wood or fabric would be replaced.

 

[LloydB]

Better project would be to make the one you've got look like it was new. Think of the reward you will get when you have to tell a newbie that they cannot get a new one because they don't make them anymore.

 

[dLj]

Under water for a year - it's destroyed. There is nothing left on that boat worth working on.

If you want a project boat there are many much better ways to do it.

You could go find one that someone started building but never finished. One that has all the parts that are basically new but just haven't been assembled.

More....

You can find many options besides a submerged boat that is destroyed....

dj

 

[jssailem]

Sunken Treasure - or Fools Gold.

When a boat fails in its primary duty of keeping water outside the boat, recovery is challenging. Hope is like a candle snuffed out when a boat has been submerged for a year.

In that length of time, water will be in places it should never go. Of course, you will never know the extent of the damage until it is raised.

The build design of modern fiberglass boats compounds the problems for you.

• A balsa wood core will be saturated. If the hull is cored, the core will rot to mush, leaving you with two thin fiberglass skins for the hull.
• If the hull is solid, then the deck will be cored. Same problem. Looks great no guts.
• Your information about the boat suggests it was neglected before it sank. The Mogan 382 was first built in 1977. While once the pride of a marina, the cost to assemble the parts to make her safe to sail is likely more than double what you will pay for a good used boat.
• The idea of an electrically powered sailboat is intriguing. Is a Morgan 382 a good boat for an electrical motor? At 17,000 lbs displacement, the physics involved in motor selection and power storage are against you. You want a lightweight boat that moves easily through the water to harness the benefits of this concept.

Those are my thoughts. I have some experience with the subject. My boat did sink in her slip. Some marina friends noticed it, and we got her refloated the day of discovery and pumped out within a couple of days. Clean-up took weeks. Occasionally, new silt deposits from the flood are still being discovered. This happened to a boat with a solid hull. The electrical was destroyed. The interior woodwork sustained some surface damage. The water line is evident if you look closely. I was saved by catching it early.

I know people with automotive hobbies will spend time and money recovering the shell of an antique car found under a tarp. There is no reason that boats should be any different, but they are. They cost more to rebuild, and if they are out in their environment and fail, you can not just leave them by the side of the road and walk home.

Good luck with your treasure hunting.

 

[Grumps]

Sunken Treasure - or Fools Gold.

When a boat fails in its primary duty of keeping water outside the boat, recovery is challenging. Hope is like a candle snuffed out when a boat has been submerged for a year.

In that length of time, water will be in places it should never go. Of course, you will never know the extent of the damage until it is raised.

The build design of modern fiberglass boats compounds the problems for you.

• A balsa wood core will be saturated. If the hull is cored, the core will rot to mush, leaving you with two thin fiberglass skins for the hull.
• If the hull is solid, then the deck will be cored. Same problem. Looks great no guts.
• Your information about the boat suggests it was neglected before it sank. The Mogan 382 was first built in 1977. While once the pride of a marina, the cost to assemble the parts to make her safe to sail is likely more than double what you will pay for a good used boat.
• The idea of an electrically powered sailboat is intriguing. Is a Morgan 382 a good boat for an electrical motor? At 17,000 lbs displacement, the physics involved in motor selection and power storage are against you. You want a lightweight boat that moves easily through the water to harness the benefits of this concept.

Those are my thoughts. I have some experience with the subject. My boat did sink in her slip. Some marina friends noticed it, and we got her refloated the day of discovery and pumped out within a couple of days. Clean-up took weeks. Occasionally, new silt deposits from the flood are still being discovered. This happened to a boat with a solid hull. The electrical was destroyed. The interior woodwork sustained some surface damage. The water line is evident if you look closely. I was saved by catching it early.

I know people with automotive hobbies will spend time and money recovering the shell of an antique car found under a tarp. There is no reason that boats should be any different, but they are. They cost more to rebuild, and if they are out in their environment and fail, you can not just leave them by the side of the road and walk home.

Good luck with your treasure hunting.

Thank you for your reply. Will probably pass on this one. Seems the consistent thought is that the fiberglass will be ruined even after 1 year under fresh water. Was hoping to bring her back to life.

 

[jssailem]

Was hoping to bring her back to life.

You don't know what you don't know with a boat that has sunk.

 

[Grumps]

Was hoping to bring her back to life.

You don't know what you don't know with a boat that has sunk.

Fact. As far as an electric motor for it, Thunderstruck Motors sell them specifically for sailboats. Figured I’d give them a shot and see how it did.

 

[william24424]

No.

 

[Tally Ho]

Thank you for your reply. Will probably pass on this one. Seems the consistent thought is that the fiberglass will be ruined even after 1 year under fresh water. Was hoping to bring her back to life.

It would cost a lot to bring her back from the dead…is the mast/boom still intact? Biggest issue in my mind (beyond the engine and wiring) is that the cored deck would undoubtedly be mush. The hull is probably OK unless something punctured it and was the cause of the sinking. But replacing the deck would be a huge project.

You have time, but money will run out before the project is done and the boat is back in the water.

Start making a list of all of the stuff you KNOW it needs (with approximate prices), then double that to account for all the stuff you don’t know about… Then sit down with a stiff drink and ask yourself it is seems worth it.

Oh, In addition, decide where you could work on a project like this…assuming a boat yard. What do they charge while you are working on this dream? You would need it indoors to replace the deck…even if you just took the top skin and core out. And heat depending on where you are located.

My guess is that it sounds like an interesting project, but way too expensive to be practical.

Keep dreaming though…it is a long winter

Greg

 

[Grumps]

Thank you for your reply. Will probably pass on this one. Seems the consistent thought is that the fiberglass will be ruined even after 1 year under fresh water. Was hoping to bring her back to life.

It would cost a lot to bring her back from the dead…is the mast/boom still intact? Biggest issue in my mind (beyond the engine and wiring) is that the cored deck would undoubtedly be mush. The hull is probably OK unless something punctured it and was the cause of the sinking. But replacing the deck would be a huge project.

You have time, but money will run out before the project is done and the boat is back in the water.

Start making a list of all of the stuff you KNOW it needs (with approximate prices), then double that to account for all the stuff you don’t know about… Then sit down with a stiff drink and ask yourself it is seems worth it.

Oh, In addition, decide where you could work on a project like this…assuming a boat yard. What do they charge while you are working on this dream? You would need it indoors to replace the deck…even if you just took the top skin and core out. And heat depending on where you are located.

My guess is that it sounds like an interesting project, but way too expensive to be practical.

Keep dreaming though…it is a long winter

Greg

Thanks. I’m not worried about the expense and I’d keep it in my shop. I’m not really concerned about replacing the deck. All projects are doable, but I am concerned about the fiberglass hull being weakened from being submerged for 12 months. That would be a project that I would not want to undertake. I would be rebuilding her just for personal satisfaction and something to do. I appreciate your input.

All boats are impractical expenses

 

[capta]

If you are looking for a cheap or free boat, this one is a definite no. Really, no. There are so many free and cheap boats that haven't spent a year as a sub.
However, cheap or free boats end up being anything but a money pit. Most are posted online for free because the owners will gladly give them away to avoid paying disposal costs. Boat building is not carpentry, which those who try to "bring back" these cheap/free boats quickly find out.
It is almost always best to have the money to buy a functional boat which you can sail, rather than owning a boat which you won't be sailing for years.

 

[jssailem]

If you are considering repowering a boat, you will need to identify the HP needed to move the boat at the desired speed.
The Morgan is a 17000-lb displacement boat. If you want to move the boat at the calculated hull speed of 7.4 knots, you will need an auxiliary motor with approximately 83 hp. I suspect the original Perkins 4.108 owners found the boat a little underpowered at 50HP.

Translating the calculated HP to KW, you would need a 61KW electric motor.

I know that sounds like a pretty big electric motor. But wait, you need to generate or at the least store electrical power on board. That is where the fun begins. How long do you want to run the boat at full power? This involves deciding how you will use the boat. What will the conditions be when you decide to use the auxiliary? Say you are looking at a storm and must escape its path. You are becalmed at the moment. If you need to run 100nm to get to the edge of the storm and you can only go 7.4 knots, you need to run the motor flat for 13 hours. Most boats can not hold enough batteries to meet that demand. And we are not even considering how to recharge the batteries.

A YouTube cruiser examined the details of powering his boat and concluded that it was not feasible at the present time.

Others recognized the limitations and adjusted (compromised) their usage to deal with them.

If an electric-powered sailboat is in your future, I believe you need to carefully choose the lightest weight boat that will meet your sailing needs.