Heart Freedom 20 Inv/charger

[HoosierSailor]

I have a Heart Freedom 20 with the remote panel. A few days ago while at the dock I noticed the top "battery" light was blinking. Consulted the manual and checked the voltage. Disconnected shore power, reconnected and all was good. Now we are anchored out and it is blinking again. Batteries are 12.84v. Turned the inverter off, let it sit and turned back, still blinks. Any thoughts? The dip switches shouldn't be in equalize mode since I haven't touched them.

 

[dlochner]

How old are the batteries?

 

[HoosierSailor]

Should have mentioned that. Not even a year old. 2 Odyssey 4D-1300.

 

[dLj]

What did the manual say about the blinking light? What is that supposed to indicate?

dj

 

[HoosierSailor]

Nothing that would seem to make sense

 

[Tally Ho]

Is dip switch #4 on or off?

I assume yours is a 12-volt system?

 

[HoosierSailor]

All dip switches are selected off

 

[dlochner]

Is dip switch #4 on or off?

I assume yours is a 12-volt system?


View attachment 228554

The initial symptoms seemed like a low voltage situation. There are a couple of causes, bad battery or bad wiring. That's why I asked about the Battery age.

The Odyssey 4D-1300 is an AGM battery and as such it is not tolerant of being in a Partial State of Charge for very long. They need to be recharged appropriately after any discharge. I suspect the batteries were being under charged which has caused their early demise.

The Odyssey's have a 170 ah capacity for a total capacity of 340 ah. I believe your Heart Freedom 20 can only provide 20 amps which is a charge rate of .06C. AGM batteries more typically can accept a charge rate in excess of .2C and some TPPL batteries (such as the Odyssey 4D-1300) can accept charge rates of near 1C.

What I believe has happened is the batteries have been chronically undercharged and charged at too low a rate which has allowed the plates to sulfate, essentially killing the batteries. The Freedom 20 is also really old technology, great for its day, but long past its prime.

The batteries are not dead in the sense that no current can be provided, they are dead in the sense that the actual capacity of the battery is far below the 170ah they are rated. They still accept a charge and the resting voltage is OK, but the actual capacity is greatly diminished so if any load is placed on the batteries the voltage drops quickly and the Heart Freedom sends out a low voltage alert. Let the batteries rest and the voltage rises or plugging it in with charger kicking in the voltage again rises and the light goes off.

If you are going to stay with AGM batteries the inverter/charger needs to be replaced with a more powerful one that can properly maintain an AGM battery. The Freedom 20 is fine for a couple of FLA Group 31 100ah batteries, but not the 4d 170 ah batteries you have.

Sorry for the bad news.

 

[dLj]

Since your batteries are less than a year old, I respectfully disagree with the above assessment that the batteries are now shot. If they were maybe three years old, that could well be the problem.

I would be more inclined to think you more likely have some bad contacts in the logic circuit of that system or the actual logic circuits are malfunctioning. It is an old system.

I do agree with the above in that you would be much better served replacing that unit.

dj

 

[dlochner]

Since your batteries are less than a year old, I respectfully disagree with the above assessment that the batteries are now shot. If they were maybe three years old, that could well be the problem.

I would be more inclined to think you more likely have some bad contacts in the logic circuit of that system or the actual logic circuits are malfunctioning. It is an old system.

I do agree with the above in that you would be much better served replacing that unit.

dj

Dave, I'm not suggesting the batteries are deader than a doornail or have a bad cell, just that significant capacity has been lost due to inadequate charging. Thin Plate Pure Lead (TPPL) batteries are AGMs and it is well known that AGMs suffer when inadequately charged and/or left in a Partial State of Charge (PSOC). TPPL batteries have been around a long time and are extremely popular for uninterrupted power supplies necessary in the telecommunications industry because they have a large capacity and can be recharged quickly, some as high as 1C, i.e., a 100 ah TPPL Battery could be recharged in an hour with a 100 amp charger.

According to Odyssey battery specs the minimum recommended charge current is about 15 a. In the OPs installation, the charge current is roughly ⅔ of the recommended charge current. Alternator charging is not much better. Since the charger is really old, I doubt the alternator has been upgraded from stock, so we know that it is not up to the task of properly charging a high capacity battery. Even if the alternator was capable of providing 40a over a long period of time, it would still take 5 hours of motoring to go from 50% SOC to near 100% SOC. Charging from shore power is worse. Assuming 100% charging efficiency (a bold assumption) it would take over 8 hours to bring the SOC to 100% from 50%

For the sake of the OP's wallet, I'd like to be wrong. Those batteries set him back at least $1500, but the evidence isn't sending me down the failed electronics path. The definitive test for the batteries is a 20 hour capacity test, given the cost of the batteries (not to mention the chiropractor fees after moving them) the cost for a capacity test would be money well spent. I certainly wouldn't throw out $1500 worth of batteries because some guy on the internet said they were bad.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Now we are anchored out and it is blinking again. Batteries are 12.84v.

Is the voltage 12.84 ant the battery terminals even when the inverter is on? If so I’d suspect faulty wiring or connections between batteries and inverter.

To troubleshoot more I’d use a multimeter to measure voltage at the battery terminals both at rest and when starting the inverter, then do the same at the inverter terminals. If you see a big drop between batteries and terminals then the wiring or connections are at fault. If you see a big difference at the batteries between inverter on and off then the batteries are probably at fault.

 

[dLj]

Dave, I'm not suggesting the batteries are deader than a doornail or have a bad cell, just that significant capacity has been lost due to inadequate charging. Thin Plate Pure Lead (TPPL) batteries are AGMs and it is well known that AGMs suffer when inadequately charged and/or left in a Partial State of Charge (PSOC). TPPL batteries have been around a long time and are extremely popular for uninterrupted power supplies necessary in the telecommunications industry because they have a large capacity and can be recharged quickly, some as high as 1C, i.e., a 100 ah TPPL Battery could be recharged in an hour with a 100 amp charger.

According to Odyssey battery specs the minimum recommended charge current is about 15 a. In the OPs installation, the charge current is roughly ⅔ of the recommended charge current. Alternator charging is not much better. Since the charger is really old, I doubt the alternator has been upgraded from stock, so we know that it is not up to the task of properly charging a high capacity battery. Even if the alternator was capable of providing 40a over a long period of time, it would still take 5 hours of motoring to go from 50% SOC to near 100% SOC. Charging from shore power is worse. Assuming 100% charging efficiency (a bold assumption) it would take over 8 hours to bring the SOC to 100% from 50%

For the sake of the OP's wallet, I'd like to be wrong. Those batteries set him back at least $1500, but the evidence isn't sending me down the failed electronics path. The definitive test for the batteries is a 20 hour capacity test, given the cost of the batteries (not to mention the chiropractor fees after moving them) the cost for a capacity test would be money well spent. I certainly wouldn't throw out $1500 worth of batteries because some guy on the internet said they were bad.

@dlochner All the above is true, I agree. However, even if these batteries were only at 50% of their original capacity, that would not be sufficient to set off the alarm as indicated by the manual. It's hard to believe even with the poor charging characteristics that in less than 1 year the batteries would be sufficiently degraded to cause this fault. Rather I feel it's far more likely that there is a wiring problem - something that seems highly likely given the age of this system.

I do very much agree that changing this charging system is an excellent idea, especially with the battery system that is now in the boat. I would hope the batteries haven't been degraded so much as needing changing. As @Davidasailor26 said, doing some testing is very much in order. I would also say capacity testing would also be a good idea at this point if voltage testing shows it's not the batteries.

dj

 

[Stu Jackson]

Dave & others, the Freedom 20 is 100A charger. I know because I have a Freedom 15 and it is a 75A charger. What we don't know is how well the owner has actually charged them.

Since he hasn't returned to this discussion, it would be helpful to hear from him, also about dip switch #4 and his resets options - did he disconnected and reconnect his shorepower. You know: RTFM?!?

 

[dlochner]

Dave & others, the Freedom 20 is 100A charger. I know because I have a Freedom 15 and it is a 75A charger. What we don't know is how well the owner has actually charged them.

Thanks Stu. I looked at the manual for the specs and couldn't find them so I assumed 20 amps because of its name. 20 amps would have been fine back in the day when 2 group 31s were common house batteries.

 

[HoosierSailor]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the detailed information. I agree the charger/inverter is old technology and i like to upgrade it. I have seen up to 70-80 amps of charging current when on shore power or running the generator. I don't believe my batteries are the issue. I have a Victron battery monitor and I have never discharged them below 50% capacity and almost always fully charge them again or at least get them to 90-95%. They were at 100% yesterday afternoon and I have used 131ah last night and this morning. Currently at 64%. According to the manual the blinking battery light indicates equalization mode or a high/low voltage situation which i don't have. It is blinking right now.

 

[HoosierSailor]

Dave & others, the Freedom 20 is 100A charger. I know because I have a Freedom 15 and it is a 75A charger. What we don't know is how well the owner has actually charged them.

Since he hasn't returned to this discussion, it would be helpful to hear from him, also about dip switch #4 and his resets options - did he disconnected and reconnect his shorepower. You know: RTFM?!?

My wife and I were offshore yesterday sailing so I apologize that my reply is a little late. And as I posted the copy of the manual above, you can safely assume I RTFM....

 

[HoosierSailor]

Just wanted to provide an update. The last few days the battery light has not been blinking. I haven't done anything but for now it seems to be working as it should.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I’d still check voltages with a multimeter. You could be just above some threshold now but still have a problem that will reappear at an inconvenient time.