Express 34 - Flooring Refinish

[ltfzsolt]

Hello sailors! This is my very first post on this forum, so please excuse any mistakes I make here.

My wife and I own an Express 34 (S/V Wild Thing) in Seward, Alaska, which we bought back in 2021. Beautifully taken care of boat, and we really wanted to keep the high standard of maintenance that the previous owners had. I don't have pictures of the flooring in particular from when we bought it, but it was in pretty good condition. Here's a couple of photos that have some floor in them from 2021:

The flooring style seems similar to the Hunter 340 in this post: refinishing cabin foor boards

Looking at the original brochure from the Express 34, I'm guessing that it's a combination of white oak and ash, not teak. https://express34.wordpress.com/express-34-color-brochure/

More recent picture, but the floor seems to be constructed of veneer on plywood:

So - now we're 4 seasons in and the floor is really starting to show signs of age. There's scratches, water intrusion, etc. You can guess from the picture above that we decided to pull the whole floor out this winter and take it home to refinish. It's still pretty smooth (except for the scratches) but is starting to look ugly:

So - here's the question. What advice do our fellow sailors have for the strategy to refinish this floor? Please talk to me like an absolute beginner.

I have a friend who recommended sanding and teak oil alone (no varnish or anything). Is that how this floor was likely originally finished? Being that it's not teak I kind of doubt it.

If not teak oil, what kind of finish should we use? I know there's 1000 opinions on this but I hope I provided enough detail to help zero in on the ideal solution.

I have a demonstrated history of doing terrible stain/seal work on furniture in our house, so we found a local guy who paints and finishes custom cabinetry who would be willing to do the work for us. However, I don't think he has a lot of marine experience and is recommending Shellac - making me a bit nervous because I've never heard anyone recommend Shellac in a marine context. And we redid the door with Shellac ourselves last year and it had water intrusion almost right away... but again that could have been my poor stain/seal skills.

Any help or advice would be appreciated!!!

 

[kappykaplan]

Congratulations on your first post!
It's normal for the sole to be a veneer on plywood - yours certainly looks like what's called a teak and holly sole. You have to be very careful sanding it 'cuz the veneer is so thin. I would go with varnish over shellac for this application.

 

[kloudie1]

As Kappy says, the veneer is very thin. The veneer is available to glue to the substrate if an oopsie happens. For durability, a good marine poly varnish works on floors. Ya may think about a traction additive which mixes in the varnish. Used at half dosage or less can really help a wet floor.

Amazon.com

 

[dlochner]

To remove the old finish start with a heat gun and a very very sharp scraper. Start gently until you ge the feel of how the finish is coming off.

Once the finish is removed sand, by hand and sanding block with 320 grit paper. The goal is to remove any wood fibers sticking up from the scraping and provide a little more surface area for the finish. The veneer may be as thin as 1/32nd of an inch, thus the caution. Start your project with the least visible section of the sole.

As for a finish, shellac is definitely out. I've been using TotalBoat Halcyon with good results. It is the easiest finish I have ever applied. It dries quickly and can be recoated in about an hour without sanding. I've been using it on most of my interior woodwork. Typically I apply 5 to 6 coats of clear gloss followed by a light sanding and then a semi-gloss coat or two, not more than 2 coats of semi-gloss.

A couple of caveats. Many wood finishes are tinted amber, either naturally or intentionally. Your soles do not appear to have a tinted finish. So if I was doing this, I would not use a tinted varnish. Semi-gloss and satin finishes are basically a gloss finish with flatteners added to dull the gloss. Multiple coats of semi-gloss can yield a muddy appearance obscuring the grain. Build coats of high gloss will give some depth to the finish with a final coat of semigloss, to dull the gloss.

Some of the dings, scratches, and stains may be too deep to remove, leave them. They are not blemishes they are the patina of use.

Good luck.

 

[ltfzsolt]

Thank you all so much for the excellent input. This is extremely helpful, and I think we have a plan forward. Couple of quick follow up questions:

Can a plainer be used in lieu of the heat gun and scraping? Would save a lot of time but I'm worried if the floor isn't perfectly flat it will remove the veneer in some places but not others.

If we do have an oopsie, where do I buy the veneer?

Should we scrape and re seal all the sides, or just the visual surface? Wondering if the water could be increasing elsewhere and we want to seal the whole thing. Would make a much bigger project but prefer to do it right once.

Thank you all!!!

 

[kappykaplan]

Can a plainer be used in lieu of the heat gun and scraping? Would save a lot of time but I'm worried if the floor isn't perfectly flat it will remove the veneer in some places but not others.

Not recommended.

Should we scrape and re seal all the sides, or just the visual surface? Wondering if the water could be increasing elsewhere and we want to seal the whole thing.

Do everything.

 

[dlochner]

Thank you all so much for the excellent input. This is extremely helpful, and I think we have a plan forward. Couple of quick follow up questions:

Can a plainer be used in lieu of the heat gun and scraping? Would save a lot of time but I'm worried if the floor isn't perfectly flat it will remove the veneer in some places but not others.

If we do have an oopsie, where do I buy the veneer?

Should we scrape and re seal all the sides, or just the visual surface? Wondering if the water could be increasing elsewhere and we want to seal the whole thing. Would make a much bigger project but prefer to do it right once.

Thank you all!!!

This is not a job for machines unless you want to buy some really expensive veneered plywood to replace the ones the machined ruined.

The bomb proof way to seal the plywood involves using epoxy. That however, takes some skill and experience and significantly increases the cost and risk of damage. Maybe next time.

 

[FastOlson]

When we bought our similar boat the original sole pieces were very very dirty and dark, from wear and old layers of oil.
I took the pieces to a furniture-dipping business and after that initial cleanup I went over the surface with Teaka-A-and-B to bring them back to their original golden brown look. Then it's just multiple coats of gloss Captains varnish. Sand with 220 or 320 between coats.
Very few similar late model boats anywhere under 200K have an interior as nice as your Express or our similar Olson, and your sailing speed on the outside. (!)
As others have mentioned, that veneer layer is thin. I would never touch it with a blade, manual or rotating. Be cautious with 80 grit sand paper, too...
There a lot of pix and real wisdom (not me; other owners!) in the lengthly cabin sole thread over at Ericsonyachts.org.
Some folks have had to replace the $$$ teak & holly veneer and others carefully preserved it and refinished it. It can be a bit of a project but is highly satisfying when completed,

Replacement of Cabin Sole [Master Thread]

Unfortunately, my boat is one of the models where Ericson glued down the teak and holly sole. Has anyone ever removed it on a similar boat and how big of a job is it?

ericsonyachts.org

 

[william24424]

I would use the heat gun, gently scrape and very lightly sand. I used the minwax clear semi-gloss poly with good results. I used minwax helmsman clear gloss spar varnish for the table & companionway slats.

 

[FastOlson]

I used minwax helmsman clear gloss spar varnish for the table & companionway slats.

It helps to have an enthusiastic spouse, also! I would guess that you restored the house to better-than-it-was.... !
Great looking teak!