Is AI a tool that can aide boaters?

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,076
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
"AI is the next technological advancement that will fundamentally alter our way of life in the very near future, and perhaps for evermore. The promise of AI lies not only in its speed of data analytics but in its utter power to quickly access—and potentially abuse access—to personal information. " James Gorrie 9/4/2024

Apple's new 16 iPhone (to be released 9 September 2024) will be enabled to use AI. Microsoft wants its users to make Copilot their everyday AI companion.

I imagine racers will seek to gain an advantage through an AI application.

Perhaps new sailors will discover AI apps that teach them to sail.

Will AI be used to route cruisers? Will AI take over piloting?

How do you see this technology affecting your sailing experiences?
 
May 17, 2004
5,416
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I’m already using AI, at least a little. I took all my wind and boatspeed data from the last few years and ran it through a Machine Learning neural network algorithm to train a model. Now when I sail I run the real time wind data into that model on a raspberry pi and it predicts my target boat speed. It’s basically automated customized polars. I don’t know that it’s really any more accurate than traditional polars but it’s fun to experiment with.

There certainly is huge hype about AI. Many of its hoped applications will turn out to be dead ends and many companies will market themselves as selling “AI” products that aren’t really any better than traditional methods. Then we’ll see a valley of disillusionment when the tech doesn’t live up to the hype. Eventually we’ll find things that AI is really good for. I’m sure some of those will involve sailing, but I think it’s too early to say what those will be yet.
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,867
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
So far, all my interactions with what I believe to be AI generated customer service services have been a total disaster. With that in mind, I can't imagine what value AI would be to me in operating any vessel I have operated over the last 6 decades.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,076
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I think of myself as a Late Adopter. I'm not interested in being on the "Cutting Edge" of technology. As I have aged, it seems that more and more technical innovations have been rushed into operation. There once was an ethos when successful beta testing was mandatory. Leaders wanted the tech to work the first time it was released. No failures. There was a fear that the public would reject your idea. Then, you would either have to scrap it or work overtime to reintroduce the concept, hopeful that the difficult start would be forgotten.

Nowadays, first shipment flops are addressed the next day with a version update. The early adopters appear to be unpaid beta testers at the public release.

Will AI follow this same trajectory? I believe yes. It has much to do with the source of data used to train the AI and the little glitches created by the coders who set the AI loose. Early last year, I had an opportunity to explore his thoughts about AI ethics with the Dean of Computer Science at the University of Utah, as seen by his cohorts and students. He shared that Ethics is one of the essential elements of their curriculum. He gave no more confidence than "We pray we are effective in instilling a belief in the value of ethical behavior."
 
  • Like
Likes: Ward H
Dec 28, 2015
1,883
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
I will use AI anyway I can to gain more time to not use it while sailing.....I believe the wind based grib routing apps use AI for routing but its always wrong due to inland winds. I think it would be way more practical for long passages with lower effects from topography.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,076
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I wonder if we live in an age of too much information.
Could that be the impetus for AI?
How else can we make sense of Big Data?

One of my joys is that Sailing seems simple. :biggrin:
 
May 17, 2004
5,416
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I wonder if we live in an age of too much information.
Could that be the impetus for AI?
I think that’s part of it. We (as a society) have access to more data than we could figure out how to use manually. AI, at least in theory, figures out for itself what the important parts of the data are and how to interpret them.

I think it’s also important to remember there are many forms of AI. Tools like ChatGPT are Large Language Models that are very broad but not especially expert. Asking them a question is like asking someone to go look something up on the internet and report back. The answers will not be any more reliable than if you asked a random person to do the same thing. But there are other types of AI for more specific tasks, for example classifying items in an image. Imagine having a masthead camera that could use AI at night to accurately alert you if you were headed for a partially submerged shipping container, fishing boat, flotsam, etc. Or imagine an AI model being able to read your engine data and look at exhaust smoke to give you a better idea on how to troubleshoot an overheating problem.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,171
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
There is nothing particularly new here with AI, except its name.

Back in the mid 70s I had the opportunity to play with an early language model developed at MIT, Eliza. Eliza was designed to understand how human language worked and was understood. Using a keyboard the human started a conversation and Eliza responded using reflective techniques and common social conversations. Due to the technology available in the mid 70s, Eliza was limited in its ability, however experiment with humans often had the humans believing it was all a ruse and there was a human in another room answering. My experience was similar, I became frustrated at Eliza's inability to really understand what I was trying to say, even though I knew it was a machine.

The large language models are based on neural networking theory and probability statements. Back in the 80s I considered writing a dissertation on neural networking models of reading. The theories were pretty interesting and based on probabilities, the gist being that letters have higher probability of following certain letters and not others. For example, there is very low probability of x following c in a word in English (I think the probability is 0) while there is a high probability of L following C. The large language models do basically the same thing, it analyzes lots of written material, calculating the probability any one word following any other word.

The kind of model @Davidasailor26 mentions has its roots in early 20th century agriculture research laid the ground work for multivariate statistical analysis. Multivariate analysis looks to see how different factors are related. In early agricultural research, scientists would look at just a few factors, such as soil type, fertilizing protocols, seed type, and so forth. David's suggestion of customized polars for his boat is nothing particular fancy, however, it can be extremely data intense. Highly competitive sailors have been doing it for years, however the data measurement s have been crude and the number of data points a human brain can handle is much smaller than that which can be handled by today's technology.

In the end, all AI is basically formulaic, original ideas, novel interpretations, and nuances are just not present in today's AI world. AI is just a set of rules for data interpretation and regurgitation. In recent months there have been posts made here on SBO that seem to have all the hallmarks of a ChatGPT answer. The formula is pretty simple and easily recognizable, it starts with an introductory statement or two about the problem, something like "Many sailors have had similar issues with....Some of them have found these things to be helpful" and then there is a list of possibilities are vague and non specific. And finally a summary statement that says basically nothing.

Just for grins I used John's opening statement for this thread for a ChatGPT prompt. Here's the unedited response.

AI is indeed poised to make a significant impact across a wide range of fields, including sailing. As technology continues to advance, its integration into sailing could reshape the way we approach and experience this activity in several ways:

1. **Navigation and Route Planning**: AI can greatly enhance navigation by analyzing weather patterns, sea conditions, and traffic to optimize routes. It could help sailors avoid hazards, choose the best routes, and even adjust course in real-time based on changing conditions. This could be particularly valuable for long-distance cruisers and competitive racers who need to make precise decisions.

2. **Training and Skill Development**: For new sailors, AI-powered apps could offer personalized training programs, tutorials, and simulations to accelerate learning. These tools could provide instant feedback and adaptive learning experiences, making it easier to pick up sailing skills and improve techniques.

3. **Autonomous Sailing**: AI could potentially take over some aspects of piloting, especially for routine or repetitive tasks. Autonomous or semi-autonomous sailing systems could handle navigation, sail adjustments, and even docking, allowing sailors to focus on other aspects of their journey or simply enjoy the experience.

4. **Safety and Monitoring**: AI could enhance safety by monitoring the boat's systems, detecting potential issues, and providing alerts. It could also analyze data from sensors to predict and prevent mechanical failures or other problems before they become serious.

5. **Performance Enhancement**: In racing, AI could be used to analyze performance data, provide strategic insights, and even simulate different race scenarios to help teams make informed decisions. This could give competitive sailors a technological edge, refining tactics and optimizing boat performance.

6. **Personalization**: AI could tailor the sailing experience to individual preferences, adjusting settings for comfort and convenience, recommending destinations based on interests, or providing insights into local conditions.

Overall, the integration of AI into sailing holds the promise of making the experience safer, more efficient, and more enjoyable. However, it also raises questions about reliance on technology and the potential for privacy concerns. Balancing the benefits of AI with careful consideration of its implications will be key to making the most of these advancements in sailing.
Kind of looked like it paraphrased this thread. Maybe I should try this again after it has a chance to review this post. Anyway, you can easily see how formulaic the response structure is.

What do you think we should do to people on the internet that simply use AI to answer questions in a forum?
 
May 17, 2004
5,416
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
What do you think we should do to people on the internet that simply use AI to answer questions in a forum?
As an exercise in recursion, here’s what ChatGPT says about that:

Using AI to answer questions in forums can be a double-edged sword. On one hand, AI can provide quick, accurate responses, especially for factual or technical queries. However, if overused or misused, it can diminish genuine human interaction and lead to a lack of personalized, thoughtful responses. Here’s how we might address this:

1. **Transparency**: Users should disclose when AI is used to generate answers. This ensures transparency and allows others to know whether they are interacting with a person or an AI.

2. **Quality Control**: Moderators could enforce guidelines ensuring that AI-generated answers meet the forum’s quality standards. Poorly constructed or irrelevant AI responses could be flagged or removed.

3. **Encourage Human Interaction**: Forums could encourage more personal engagement by rewarding thoughtful, human-generated responses, perhaps through upvotes, badges, or other recognition systems.

4. **Balance**: It might be beneficial to strike a balance, allowing AI-generated content where appropriate but ensuring that human input is prioritized, especially in discussions requiring empathy, creativity, or deep expertise.

In essence, AI can be a valuable tool in forums if used responsibly, but it should complement, not replace, human interaction.
Yep, that generally fits the formulaic structure Dave mentioned. I don’t know that I especially agree with it either. I don’t think AI (in its current form) can be blindly trusted to provide “quick, accurate responses, especially for technical queries”. I don’t think people can always be counted on to provide transparency. I don’t think moderators have ever taken an official role in quality control of responses on SBO. And having a “balance” seems pretty vague. That was not ChatGPT’s finest answer I wouldn’t say.

In general I don’t think AI generated responses need any more moderation or to be responded to differently than any other type of response. If the answer is accurate then it gets the job done. If the answer isn’t accurate the community replies and has a discussion that leads to a better response. That’s pretty much the same as any other inaccurate human response. After all, many inaccurate human responses are just regurgitations of what they’ve read someplace else on the internet, just like inaccurate AI responses. I think the biggest difference is the scale of bad answers you can get with AI. With human generated incorrect answers a human has to take the time to write something wrong. They might even think they have a good grasp of the subject and spend a lot of time on the flawed write-up. But with AI a person can (intentionally or accidentally) generate a bad answer very quickly, so you could find a lot more of them.
 
  • Helpful
Likes: dlochner
Jan 11, 2014
12,171
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
This morning Ben Stein (Panbo.com) republished an article he originally published in Soundings Trade Only. One sentence caught my eye:

Both of the on-water demonstrations I attended preceded the November 2022 introduction of ChatGPT, and with it the trend toward using AI to describe computer-aided decision-making.
.

Essentially he is saying AI is a marketing ploy for more advanced systems that have been around for some time. Increases in processing speed and memory in computers has allowed devices we have all depended on for years to offer more information faster and presented in a more easily understood user interface.

From my perspective, based on decades of assessing human intelligence, there's not much intelligence here. Just new shiny displays of information to distract us from what is happening outside the cockpit.


 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,076
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
My post was not intended to explore the essence of AI or its relationship to human intelligence (even though those are fascinating subjects).

AI is an evolving technology. It will be used and marketed in many ways that engage our lives. Computers empowered to compute and then do tasks that we once performed. Will this leak into the area of boating or sailing? What limits this encroachment?

Ben Stein's article touches on the subject as he reviews early systems being developed. I was interested in the comment about the Avikus system.
The Avikus demo shocked me. The company handed me a tablet, and we set out on the water near Port Everglades, Fla. The y that converts the user to a carnival rider mirrored the helm interface. It showed a live feed of everything around the boat, and the decisions the system made. Within seconds, the operator’s hands were off the controls. For the next 20-plus minutes, the system operated the boat in the busy Intracoastal Waterway.

I find technology objectionable when it transforms the user into a carnival rider.

As a boater, I use an Autopilot to steer my boat while managing the sails and monitoring the waters around me. One could argue that the AP is a rudimentary AI system. It has been given a magnetic bearing, which is monitored to look for any divergence. Should the boat drift, it corrects the angle of the rudder to compensate for this divergence in the course based on a connected sensor that recognizes the flow of the earth's magnetic properties. While at the helm, I would do the same functions without the AP.

The companies in Stein's review are developing more advanced sensor-based systems that mimic the functions of boat operation. Will this lead to autonomous boat operation? This raises questions about the role of technology in our experiences on the water.
 
  • Like
Likes: Ward H