Is AI a tool that can aide boaters?

[dlochner]

In case you missed it.

Boat Runs Down a Drone on Lake Erie. Is This Just the Beginning?

Recreational Craft Wrecks 'Uncrewed' Vessel Despite Collision-Avoidance System

loosecannon.substack.com

 

[Davidasailor26]

In case you missed it.

Boat Runs Down a Drone on Lake Erie. Is This Just the Beginning?

Recreational Craft Wrecks 'Uncrewed' Vessel Despite Collision-Avoidance System

loosecannon.substack.com

I’ve exceeded my quota of free Loose Cannon articles, but from the headline it sounds like the human was at fault, not the computer?

 

[dlochner]

I’ve exceeded my quota of free Loose Cannon articles, but from the headline it sounds like the human was at fault, not the computer?

Ok, Loose Cannon is only about $1 for good independent journalism about boating with an emphasis on recreational boating. Swanson has a long history of being in the marine journalism world. And he'll walk your dog if you get to Green Cove Springs, FL.

The drone is semi-autonomous operated by NOAA, it is one of many they deploy. It is fairly small and with a very low freeboard. A human is supposed to check on it every 20 minutes.

There are local media reports on WTOL, but I couldn't find them in a quick search.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I find technology objectionable when it transforms the user into a carnival rider.

Depends. Some people like going to the carnival. Some people like having the option to go there sometimes but also be more interactive at other times. Who am I to tell them they shouldn’t be able to, or that technology shouldn’t exist to let them?

 

[Davidasailor26]

I got the Substack app and got access to the article. Seeing the picture of the low freeboard is compelling. I’d be curious to know why the drone couldn’t avoid the collision. Was that a failure or was the sailboat just going too fast or in too unpredictable of a course to avoid?

The irony is that if both vessels were automated they probably would’ve seen each others’ AIS and avoided the collision.

As low as the freeboard is I don’t think it’d be any harder to see than a kayaker or small bass boat. And I wasn’t compelled by the 2 foot seas obscuring visibility. I think this is actually pretty analogous to the question of AI forum posts - the drone wasn’t any harder to deal with than a regular manned vessel, but maybe there will be more of them so you need to deal with it at a larger scale than traditional human-controlled obstacles.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Maybe it will it steer wakeboats away from my bow

 

[Thud]

We humans suffer from information overload. For sailors AI should take all of the information inputs and output simple to understand suggestions. Something along the line of "If you ease your main 6 inches you will gain 0.5 knots on your current coarse."

 

[Project_Mayhem]

AI could be very useful for solo cruisers who are sleeping to potential dangers

 

[dLj]

AI could be very useful for solo cruisers who are sleeping to potential dangers

I'm wondering what more it could do beyond what an AIS and RADAR alarm can give. Adding in cameras could help identify objects not visible with those technologies. But one would have a significant validation process using those. Feels more like a false sense of security...

I don't see a lot of practical use for AI to aid the solo sleeping sailor. At least not in the near future. The only use would be if one could add in a technology - like cameras or something else I don't know of - that is beyond the current technologies currently being used. The issue is not the use of AI, but how do you get the data input into the AI to then be useful.

dj

 

[Alan Gomes]

Here's the subject line of this thread: Is AI a tool that can aide boaters?

So, I asked AI (Copilot) how it would answer the question about AI's usefulness for boaters and here is what I got:

Absolutely! AI is revolutionizing the boating industry in several exciting ways:

1. Autonomous Navigation: AI-powered systems can autonomously navigate waterways, adjust courses based on environmental conditions, and detect potential hazards. This makes boating safer and more efficient12.
2. Predictive Maintenance: AI-driven monitoring systems continuously analyze onboard equipment and performance metrics, identifying potential issues before they escalate. This helps in prolonging the lifespan of critical components and minimizing downtime2.
3. Auto-Docking Technology: AI simplifies the docking process by removing the dynamics of wind and current, improving control for maneuvering in tight spaces1.
4. Environmental Conservation: Autonomous vessels equipped with AI can collect marine litter, optimizing fuel efficiency, reducing emissions, and encouraging sustainable practices2.
5. Enhanced User Experience: AI-powered virtual assistants can provide personalized recommendations, such as suggesting nearby marinas, booking reservations, and providing real-time weather updates2.

These advancements are making boating safer, more efficient, and more enjoyable.

******
There you have it! AI tells us that AI is "absolutely revolutionizing the boating industry" and so it must be. End of discussion. QED.

 

[jssailem]

Alan, that is very interesting. Perhaps your AI can enlighten us on how this can be accomplished on a 50-year-old Fiberglass boat.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Perhaps your AI can enlighten us on how this can be accomplished on a 50-year-old Fiberglass boat.

Alrightee. There is nothing about which AI can't enlighten us, John! I just put this question to AI precisely as you have asked it. Here is the reply:

Absolutely, even a 50-year-old fiberglass boat can benefit from modern AI technologies! Here are some practical ways to integrate AI into your classic vessel:

1. Navigation Upgrades: Install an AI-powered navigation system. These systems can be retrofitted to older boats and provide advanced route planning, obstacle detection, and autopilot capabilities.
2. Engine Monitoring: Use AI-based engine monitoring systems. These can be connected to your boat’s existing engine to predict maintenance needs and alert you to potential issues before they become serious.
3. Smart Sensors: Equip your boat with smart sensors that monitor various parameters like bilge water levels, battery health, and fuel consumption. These sensors can send data to an AI system that provides real-time alerts and maintenance suggestions.
4. Virtual Assistants: Implement a virtual assistant like Boatyard.ai. This can help you with maintenance schedules, troubleshooting, and finding local services or activities, making your boating experience smoother and more enjoyable.
5. Autonomous Features: While fully autonomous capabilities might be more challenging to implement on an older boat, you can still add features like automated docking systems that use AI to assist with precise maneuvers.
6. Enhanced Communication: Integrate AI-driven communication tools that can provide weather updates, emergency alerts, and navigation advice, ensuring you stay informed and safe on the water.

By incorporating these technologies, you can bring your classic boat into the modern age, enhancing safety, efficiency, and enjoyment. Do you have any specific upgrades in mind for your boat?
*****

You do realize there's no getting off this AI hamster wheel, don't you?

 

[Alan Gomes]

Note, by the way, that both of those AI answers begin with "Absolutely!" So, they must be true.

 

[dLj]

Note, by the way, that both of those AI answers begin with "Absolutely!" So, they must be true.

Absolutely! Just like whatever a Google search returns must be true!

dj

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I'm wondering what more it could do beyond what an AIS and RADAR alarm can give. Adding in cameras could help identify objects not visible with those technologies. But one would have a significant validation process using those. Feels more like a false sense of security...

I don't see a lot of practical use for AI to aid the solo sleeping sailor. At least not in the near future. The only use would be if one could add in a technology - like cameras or something else I don't know of - that is beyond the current technologies currently being used. The issue is not the use of AI, but how do you get the data input into the AI to then be useful.

dj

Monitoring of AIS, radar, cameras, VHF and sensors such as wind, motion, water detection, etc for abnormalities would be incredibly useful. It's no replacement for a human but it could save lives

 

[shemandr]

You do realize there's no getting off this AI hamster wheel, don't you?

Yeah, but ...
This is how I react to those enhancements:
1. These capabilities exist independent of AI. The Object detection is the only one I see that would need AI and mostly because of a large file of object profiles asI understand it.
2. Engine monitoring: I helped move a power boat from Chesapeake to Florida. I was on the boat for 14 days and got off at Fort Pierce. The problem was that sensors for the twin Volvo diesel were always kicking the engine into the safe mode (i.e. 2,000 rpm). That system had a sensor for everything you would want to monitor and a number of parameters that you didn't need to know. But no sensor for to not shut down while passing a 800' container ship while entering Charleston Harbor! Artificial Idiocy.
3. Smart Sensors: Same as #2
4. Virtual Assistants: Give Virtual help
5. Autonomous Features: Another case of technology that is no due to AI. We've had joystick docking for at least a decade. AI will make it better no doubt. But it's really the processor.
6. Enhanced Communication: Again already exists.
One thing AI can't deal with: Lightening!

 

[dLj]

Monitoring of AIS, radar, cameras, VHF and sensors such as wind, motion, water detection, etc for abnormalities would be incredibly useful. It's no replacement for a human but it could save lives

Bear in mind you said a solo sailor sleeping. It is that singular instance I'm referring to. As a single sailor and sleeping, you are on a trip of more than 24 hours. So that pretty much means off-shore. A 24 hour day will put you 100 NM or more depending upon your boat. Mostly this would be the case for crossing oceans, but one could be doing a long coastal cruise. If I'm doing a long coastal cruise, I would not be less than 50 NM from shore if I have planned to be sleeping. More likely I'd have planned stop-overs where I can rest. However, in the case I was running further, I would be working in polyphasic sleep mode. I most certainly would not be totally reliant on any technology including AI.

There is no need for additional monitoring of AIS or RADAR - AI will give you nothing more than those units already provide. You could connect up a system with AI and these instruments - but you aren't getting any additional usefulness.

VHF once you are 50 miles or more off-shore is not even going to be on as there is no signal out there anyway if crossing oceans. If doing a long coastal passage, if you are crossing shipping channels, you aren't going to be sleeping. You had better plan better. In the case where you running with your VHF on, why would you need AI? You would be monitoring channel 16 or maybe your unit allows you to monitor a couple channels - I'm not seeing a thing AI does for me here.

Then you go into wind, motion, water detection, etc. As a solo sailor, I'm already monitoring that just through my brain. There are no changes in the parameters of those that I won't notice without AI, at least that are going to put me in danger.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a luddite. I have actually worked fairly extensively with AI. Enough to know areas where it is excellent, and areas where it is not. Well, at least some of each, I certainly don't know them all...

Sorry, in this application - I don't see any advantage to setting up a whole system just to add in AI.

dj

 

[Davidasailor26]

2. Engine monitoring: I helped move a power boat from Chesapeake to Florida. I was on the boat for 14 days and got off at Fort Pierce. The problem was that sensors for the twin Volvo diesel were always kicking the engine into the safe mode (i.e. 2,000 rpm). That system had a sensor for everything you would want to monitor and a number of parameters that you didn't need to know. But no sensor for to not shut down while passing a 800' container ship while entering Charleston Harbor! Artificial Idiocy.

Presumably that system doesn’t have any AI built in. It’s just triggering safe mode based on some sensor being out of tolerance. The potential of AI would be to ingest the sensor data and make a better decision on whether there’s a real problem or just a sensor issue. If effective that means less safety-mode interruptions without more risk to the engines.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Bear in mind you said a solo sailor sleeping. It is that singular instance I'm referring to. As a single sailor and sleeping, you are on a trip of more than 24 hours. So that pretty much means off-shore. A 24 hour day will put you 100 NM or more depending upon your boat. Mostly this would be the case for crossing oceans, but one could be doing a long coastal cruise. If I'm doing a long coastal cruise, I would not be less than 50 NM from shore if I have planned to be sleeping. More likely I'd have planned stop-overs where I can rest. However, in the case I was running further, I would be working in polyphasic sleep mode. I most certainly would not be totally reliant on any technology including AI.

There is no need for additional monitoring of AIS or RADAR - AI will give you nothing more than those units already provide. You could connect up a system with AI and these instruments - but you aren't getting any additional usefulness.

VHF once you are 50 miles or more off-shore is not even going to be on as there is no signal out there anyway if crossing oceans. If doing a long coastal passage, if you are crossing shipping channels, you aren't going to be sleeping. You had better plan better. In the case where you running with your VHF on, why would you need AI? You would be monitoring channel 16 or maybe your unit allows you to monitor a couple channels - I'm not seeing a thing AI does for me here.

Then you go into wind, motion, water detection, etc. As a solo sailor, I'm already monitoring that just through my brain. There are no changes in the parameters of those that I won't notice without AI, at least that are going to put me in danger.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a luddite. I have actually worked fairly extensively with AI. Enough to know areas where it is excellent, and areas where it is not. Well, at least some of each, I certainly don't know them all...

Sorry, in this application - I don't see any advantage to setting up a whole system just to add in AI.

dj

I figured, and I'm lacking experience here, that a boat that is close, may try to contact you. Bringing a VHF to bed may not be practical or pleasant with all the background noise. I assume the same with an AIS or RADAR? A system to monitor for anomalies would essentially relay/translate this data into an alert on something like an iPad.

 

[dLj]

I figured, and I'm lacking experience here, that a boat that is close, may try to contact you. Bringing a VHF to bed may not be practical or pleasant with all the background noise. I assume the same with an AIS or RADAR? A system to monitor for anomalies would essentially relay/translate this data into an alert on something like an iPad.

AIS can be set up to alarm in multiple ways, the way I run it is to have it alarm if it calculates a projected intersecting course of 2 NM or less. So I have been woken up with a freighter that is about 26 NM away because my AIS indicated a potentially less than 2 NM distance as the closed point of contact. As freighters tend to run in the 20 knot range, that gives me about an hour to assess and determine if anything needs attention. I can see nothing that AI can do to improve on that. It would have to rely on an AIS transponder to get data. So you could put in a second AIS transponder just for the AI interface and that would give redundancy, but I don't feel that's worth it. If you run your AI off the existing AIS transponder, you are simply adding in a second alarm source - also not something that seems useful. Pretty much the same goes for RADAR.

As far as running with your VHF on, if there is no boat indicated through the AIS, I just turned it off. It's just a power draw with no function. You can't call or be called outside that range. So we are talking 30 NM or less, there abouts anyway. The VHS becomes useful near shore, crossing shipping lanes, entering port, those kinds of close encounters types of sailing. You aren't, at least shouldn't be, a sleeping single handed in any of those situations.

dj