Navigational Buoys Used as Racing Marks

[jviss]

I had a scary situation yesterday, and more than one potential collision (close ones). I was entering Newport harbor under power when a fleet of smaller trimarans approached from my left, crossing, and essentially blocking the entrance as they raced across my path, using the red harbor entrance buoy as thier racing mark - so I got them coming, left to right, and going, right to left. It was everything I could do to avoid hitting a couple of them, requiring me to slow and maneuver abruptly. I was so pissed!

It is my understanding that its a violation of the colregs to use a navaid as a racing buoy. Is that so?

I called the harbormaster but I confess that, while he was very polite and understanding, didn't seem as if he was going to do anything about it, despite saying he'd send someone out to have a look.

Thoughts?

 

[degas]

Yeah, not the most considerate use of navigation buoys.

I couldn't find anything specific to racing in the (Canadian) colregs, but it looks like Rule 9 Narrow Channels was infracted left & right (so to speak).

 

[dlochner]

Doesn't matter if they are racing or not. As a vessel under power, you are the give way vessel. If there is plenty of navigable water (for your boat) around the marks, I think it would a hard case to make that race course was restricting navigation in the channel. Using ATONs is a pretty standard practice for sailboat racing.

If you have any knowledge at all about sailing and sailboat racing, it is pretty easy to understand where the boats are going and what they will be doing. Very easy to be courteous and follow the COREGS and give way to the racers. And if you interfere with the race and end up at the YC that sponsored the race, expect a less than friendly reception.

 

[jviss]

Doesn't matter if they are racing or not. As a vessel under power, you are the give way vessel. If there is plenty of navigable water (for your boat) around the marks, I think it would a hard case to make that race course was restricting navigation in the channel. Using ATONs is a pretty standard practice for sailboat racing.

If you have any knowledge at all about sailing and sailboat racing, it is pretty easy to understand where the boats are going and what they will be doing. Very easy to be courteous and follow the COREGS and give way to the racers. And if you interfere with the race and end up at the YC that sponsored the race, expect a less than friendly reception.

It wasn't like that. I was entering the channel, constrained by draft, and they came up suddenly, fast, and I had a difficult time just slowing and maneuvering to avoid hitting multiple of them. It was as if they "swarmed" me.

 

[dlochner]

Can you post a screenshot of the chart where this occurred. It would be helpful to see what the actual conditions were.

The consensus on SA is it is not a problem unless the waters surrounding the mark are very shallow and other vessels cannot safely navigate the area outside the marked channel.

Regardless, this in not an incident I'd let raise my blood pressure or lose any sleep over.

racing around navigational buoys...

please help explain or provide the data indicating the rule, colreg rule or whatever may indicate if sailboats in the united states are allowed to use navigational buoys as start marks or turning marks that are not in the harbor.

forums.sailinganarchy.com

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Our club typically uses the channel entrance marker for the upwind leg when the wind is from the west. I was uncomfortable with it because the water is almost too shallow for me at the entrance and we had to approach from outside what I consider to be the channel. I see your point but I think a lot depends upon the circumstance. Navigation markers are often used as racing turning marks and I don't think there is any rule against it. All boats still have to follow navigation protocol, whether you are racing or not. If it's a notoriously crowded channel, it can be a problem. If you were the lone sailor trying to enter the channel while a race was going on, I'd say "just get over it".

 

[Rick Webb]

It wasn't like that. I was entering the channel, constrained by draft, and they came up suddenly, fast, and I had a difficult time just slowing and maneuvering to avoid hitting multiple of them. It was as if they "swarmed" me.

Were you flying the "Constrained by Draught Signal"?

How were they to know they should give way?

 

[jviss]

Were you flying the "Constrained by Draught Signal"?

How were they to know they should give way?

Ha, ha. They should have known. They were racing right across the entrance to the harbor. They weren't there when I approached the red, which I was holding tight to, as there was traffic entering, and they just happened across my path, fairly suddenly. Imagine trimarans racing.

 

[FastOlson]

If you were indeed the right-of-way vessel, it seems like sounding five horn blasts and contacting the USCG was your option.
Around here we race on a (large) river and all the clubs use nav buoys for marks for decades. That said the Race Instructions call for DQ-ing any boat that interferes with commercial traffic. We have lots of tugs/barges and they are "restricted in maneuvering" and have both rules and self preservation on their side.
The River Patrol (county sheriff) and USCG will cite a violator quickly, and they should.

All that said, there are always a number of racers with more entitlement than brains. Amazingly, at times. They are matched in cognitive disability by occasional hog-lines of salmon fishing boats who try to ignore the commercial traffic and occasionally get ticketed ..... or killed...

In the OD fleets I used to race in we always zig zagged around some clueless fishing skiff parked too close to a mark or line. Usually they would they would then wander away, still trolling. If we informed them that they were in the middle of a scheduled race and this was covered in their Notice to Mariners, 96% of the time we'd get a blank look or some uncreative swearing.

Such is life.

 

[WayneH]

IIRC the start/finish line on some of our Galveston Bay races was the entrance markers to the Kemah/Clear Creek Channel. But the other markers were an oil platform and a mid-bay radio tower both of which were well outside of the Houston Ship Channel.

Disclaimer: It's been over ten years since I raced in Galveston Bay so I may be full of !
Rum will do that to ya.

 

[Stu Jackson]

This is one of the strangest "complaints" I've ever read on a boating forum. Dave's right. They were under sail, you were motoring. What is your problem?!? Really, jviss, this simply exposes YOUR lack of understanding of COLREGS (Inland Rules or open water versions are identical in regard to this perceived "issue" of yours).

Let's just say, for sake of discussion, that this swarm of sailboats happened but they were NOT adjacent to any navigational aid. I can easily imagine a situation where this could occur where a group of sailboats, racing or not, are sailing together, and you come across them. What do you do then? You follow COLREGS, right?

I am perplexed at your concern about this issue for any reason. Using the buoy as a racing mark in this case is merely an excuse to cover your failure to follow COLREGS since you were under power. And if you'd been under sail, you should be following those priorities.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Our club uses 4 of its own marks and 5 government ATONs depending on the conditions. 4 of the ATONs and all of the private marks are in fairly wide open pars of the mouth of the river. One ATON marks the start of a narrower section of channel, but I wouldn’t consider it dangerously narrow. An outbound boat may have to avoid a racing boat depending on timing. We try not to use that mark on busy Sunday afternoons but we’ve never had a problem in our weekly Thursday night races. We do have barge traffic and our SI’s call for disqualification of any racer who cuts in front of a burdened tug.

If your channel is really so narrow that there’s no way to safely avoid them then I guess it would be better if they looked elsewhere. But were there really so many of them that you couldn’t slow down and let them round then continue?

 

[jviss]

This is one of the strangest "complaints" I've ever read on a boating forum. Dave's right. They were under sail, you were motoring. What is your problem?!? Really, jviss, this simply exposes YOUR lack of understanding of COLREGS (Inland Rules or open water versions are identical in regard to this perceived "issue" of yours).

Let's just say, for sake of discussion, that this swarm of sailboats happened but they were NOT adjacent to any navigational aid. I can easily imagine a situation where this could occur where a group of sailboats, racing or not, are sailing together, and you come across them. What do you do then? You follow COLREGS, right?

I am perplexed at your concern about this issue for any reason. Using the buoy as a racing mark in this case is merely an excuse to cover your failure to follow COLREGS since you were under power. And if you'd been under sail, you should be following those priorities.

Stu, I do not misunderstand the colregs, and I didn't violate them - I gave way!

The issue was they cut off the navigable channel while I was in it, constrained by draft. The sailboat being the stand-on vessel is not absolute! Everyone has an obligation to mitigate the chance of a collision.

 

[jviss]

If your channel is really so narrow that there’s no way to safely avoid them then I guess it would be better if they looked elsewhere. But were there really so many of them that you couldn’t slow down and let them round then continue?

I was going about 4 kt., as I recall, and entering the channel between the red and green, hugging the red side, and they appeared "out of nowhere" - a whole fleet of them, going fast; like 15 to 20kt. fast. As I said, it was all I could do to avoid multiple collisions. Thankfully, I did. I came off the power, turned left, and then had to turn right to avoid another one, and turn left again to stay in the channel. You had to be there.

 

[jviss]

I don't know if you guys realize, but this is a busy harbor. Seatreak, the high speed ferry, coming and going. The Jamestown ferry doing the same. Megayachts coming and going. Lots of sailboats coming an going, including racing fleets from the NY Yacht club, Ida Lewis Yacht Club, a few old Americas Cup 12m yachts, a couple of big sightseeing schooners, and on and on. The yacht clubs race outside the harbor, in Narraganset Bay (East passage). Anyone who decides to race around the red and green harbor entrance buoys is irresponsible, in my opinion. It was a scary situation, and it wasn't caused by any negligence or misunderstanding of the colregs on my part.

Your opinions may vary, I get that. I was just wondering, I have a recollection that racing around navaids was verboten, but my recollection could well be faulty.

 

[jviss]

The total width of this entrance, from the point at Fort Adams, on the left, to the bottom Goat Island, on the right, is 2,300'. Between the buoys is probably 1,500' or so.

The small arrow is me, entering. The longer arrow is that fleet coming at me. I don't know where exactly they were coming from, probably from the East side of Goat Island, as I didn't see them until they were on top of me.

 

[capta]

All I know is that if one hits a USCG buoy (in a race or otherwise) you'd better be in a well built metal boat. Those things are heavy and not inclined to move out of the way.

 

[dlochner]

A 1000' is plenty of room and there is plenty of depth outside the red buoy. Slowing down or even stopping for a couple of minutes shouldn't be an issue. The chanel is 20 times the length of your boat. Sorry, trying plow through the racing fleet was just bad seamanship and manners.

All I know is that if one hits a USCG buoy (in a race or otherwise) you'd better be in a well built metal boat. Those things are heavy and not inclined to move out of the way.

Yes, they are big and heavy. If you hit them on a glancing blow it will get your attention and you will have some gelcoat work to do, but they won't sink you. Hitting head on, might be a different story. Don't ask how I know this.

 

[dLj]

You are hanging your hat on "constrained by draft".... You were not constrained by draft. You boat has less than 6 feet of draft. You could have easily gone to the land side of that red buoy. Plus the channel is plenty wide where you are talking. You were motoring, you were not showing a constrained by draft indications (which you shouldn't have) - those sail boats were the stand on vessels but apparently you are complaining you had to look out for them... I'm recalling a saying my mother used to use - "You're looking for sympathy? You'll find it right in the dictionary between sh!t and syphilis.."

dj

 

[dLj]

All I know is that if one hits a USCG buoy (in a race or otherwise) you'd better be in a well built metal boat. Those things are heavy and not inclined to move out of the way.

Hahaha - that's for sure!!!!

dj