To swivel or not to swivel

[NYSail]

So I know the fears of the weakest link and I’ve always just said yea no way…… but I see the benefits and know of others that use them without issues.
We anchor whenever we are traveling….. 250 feet of 3/8bbb and rocna 25 (55lbs).
Hear the robustness of the mantis swivel is second to none…..

love to hear experience with to settle my nerves having this link.

Thanks
Greg

 

[twodzusfittings]

I love mine. I made sure I was well familiar with the art and reasons of secure wire tying before assembling.

 

[dLj]

I use the Mantus swivel. No relation to Mantus, just a happy customer. They aren't cheap. I did get mine at a discount at the Annapolis Boat show.

dj

Mantus Swivel

The Strongest Link in Your Chain. Mantus swivel is stronger than its corresponding Grade 40 chain. (WLL is 1/5 UBS) Integrated shackle design completely eliminates side loading making this the safest swivel on the market.

www.mantusmarine.com

 

[dlochner]

I have always been in the no-swivel group. After hundreds of times with the anchor always coming up facing the right way, I was convinced. Recently the chain developed a twist which caused it to come up backwards. Now I am rethinking my position.

 

[thinwater]

I have always been in the no-swivel group. After hundreds of times with the anchor always coming up facing the right way, I was convinced. Recently the chain developed a twist which caused it to come up backwards. Now I am rethinking my position.

^^ This. All a swivel does for me is insure that it will be backwards 50% of the time.

If the boat is backing when you recover the anchor it will alighn with the flow and come up the right way round. Sometimes the chain will rotate between the roller and the windlass, but then it is simple to remove the twist while lowering. Then recover right way round.

If I wanted to turn the anchor, I would get a Boomerang. I've tested them, they work.
Boomerang anchor turner

I do NOT favor the ones that clamp to the anchor; too much side stress on the attachment and not enough time during recovery for the anchor to turn over. There should be chain between the turner and the anchor. Common sense.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I think every swivel I ever used on a boat did not swivel much to correct twisting while under load. An anchor swivel IMO is mostly yet another piece of gear that must be maintained, and a potential point of functional failure if not maintained. Why do we need one? Its purpose is to “straighten out” the anchor as the rode is recovered? Doesn’t the chain itself “untwist” while being raised, including the anchor, on its own? Don’t you need any other gear for your boat? Maybe need to replace the chain?

 

[Rich Stidger]

If I wanted to turn the anchor, I would get a Boomerang. I've tested them, they work.
Boomerang anchor turner

I do NOT favor the ones that clamp to the anchor; too much side stress on the attachment and not enough time during recovery for the anchor to turn over. There should be chain between the turner and the anchor. Common sense.

Years ago I had a device called "The Missing Link". It's design was very much like the Boomerang, but the Boomerang is much simpler. Having said that, if I had known about the Boomerang I probably would have bought it instead of the Mantus swivel.
But I am quite happy with the Mantus and my opinion is that it is the best swivel available.

 

[Rich Stidger]

I think every swivel I ever used on a boat did not swivel much to correct twisting while under load. An anchor swivel IMO is mostly yet another piece of gear that must be maintained, and a potential point of functional failure if not maintained. Why do we need one? Its purpose is to “straighten out” the anchor as the rode is recovered? Doesn’t the chain itself “untwist” while being raised, including the anchor, on its own? Don’t you need any other gear for your boat? Maybe need to replace the chain?

My experience is that the chain by itself does not un-twist at retrieval. I think the swivel does help, but the best method is to back up after the anchor is off the bottom and the water flowing over the anchor will straighten it out. This technique probably depends upon the anchor design, but it works well for my plow-type Manson Supreme anchor.

 

[thinwater]

My experience is that the chain by itself does not un-twist at retrieval. I think the swivel does help, but the best method is to back up after the anchor is off the bottom and the water flowing over the anchor will straighten it out. This technique probably depends upon the anchor design, but it works well for my plow-type Manson Supreme anchor.

^^ Exactly.

 

[Foswick]

I don't think there is a clear argument one way or the other. To me, a swivel is a solution looking for a problem that isn't that big of a deal. And, I mostly sail in an area where winds and currents can spin you around dozens of times in a single day. My feeling (not experience) about swivels is that they really only do much when well-maintained.

But, frame this within the context of me. I tend to think that people worry way too much about ground tackle and that anchoring isn't as complicated as people try to make it. Get a good anchor, plenty of chain, make sure it's all in good shape, pick a good spot, set the anchor well, use generous scope, pay attention to what it's doing ... that's about it. I tend to eschew any equipment or ideas that add much more to that. In my case, we pull the anchor up off the floor and let it hang a bit before bringing it the rest of the way up. And, we rarely leave an anchor set for more than a day or two. So, it just isn't a problem that I need solved.

Not to say that they don't provide some benefit. I say, if you see a problem that a good swivel would solve, go for it.

 

[dLj]

I've always felt the main purpose of the swivel is when anchored in one spot for an extend e time. I spent about a month at anchor a couple times. You don't necessarily go back and forth. I've been anchored where the boat spin consistently in one direction. The swivel doesn't straighten the chain, it helps reduce induced twist . My gypsy straightens the chain.

dj

 

[NYSail]

I think every swivel I ever used on a boat did not swivel much to correct twisting while under load. An anchor swivel IMO is mostly yet another piece of gear that must be maintained, and a potential point of functional failure if not maintained. Why do we need one? Its purpose is to “straighten out” the anchor as the rode is recovered? Doesn’t the chain itself “untwist” while being raised, including the anchor, on its own? Don’t you need any other gear for your boat? Maybe need to replace the chain?

chain is rust free and few years old!

 

[Kings Gambit]

My experience is that the chain by itself does not un-twist at retrieval. I think the swivel does help, but the best method is to back up after the anchor is off the bottom and the water flowing over the anchor will straighten it out. This technique probably depends upon the anchor design, but it works well for my plow-type Manson Supreme anchor.

I don't dispute your method, but why cannot raising the anchor up 60 ft from the bottom (we have deep bottoms here in CA) with the water rushing over the anchor palms do the same thing as powering two boat lengths or so through the water with water rushing over the submerged palms? Reminds me of weight-loss drug commercials. "You'll lose xxx lbs in 6 mo when taken with diet and exercise (routine)." I'm here to tell you, if you are on a diet and exercise routine you do not need the drug! If you're hauling the anchor from 60 ft depth, you probably do not need to pull it through the water attached to a swivel as well, etc. However, if you have been pirouetting around your anchor set in 10-12 ft of water, afternoon and night, then maybe you do need to apply that method! It's really illuminating how our opinions are shaped by our activities in our local venues. (Mine evidently does untwist if it was ever twisted in the first place. The final pull over the bow roller aligns it for the next deployment.)

 

[Stu Jackson]

Maine Sail answered this years ago:

Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels

Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels

c34.org

He wrote this in 2009:
Over 35+ years I have thousands of anchorings with thousands of tide swings and wind shifts and have never once used a swivel on my anchor set up. I have also never had an issue when not using one that made me wish I had used one.

 

[Kings Gambit]

chain is rust free and few years old!

Go stainless!!

So I know the fears of the weakest link and I’ve always just said yea no way…… but I see the benefits and know of others that use them without issues.
We anchor whenever we are traveling….. 250 feet of 3/8bbb and rocna 25 (55lbs).
Hear the robustness of the mantis swivel is second to none…..

love to hear experience with to settle my nerves having this link.

Thanks
Greg

See Conclusion. "We still see..."

New Mantus Swivel - Practical Sailor

For those who insist on using an anchor swivel, we suggest staying away from cheap varieties, and using only load-tested designs that exceed the rating of the anchor chain from every angle of pull.

www.practical-sailor.com

 

[dLj]

Maine Sail answered this years ago:

Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels

Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels

c34.org

He wrote this in 2009:
Over 35+ years I have thousands of anchorings with thousands of tide swings and wind shifts and have never once used a swivel on my anchor set up. I have also never had an issue when not using one that made me wish I had used one.

With all due respect to Maine Sail, Id have to ask if he spent several weeks or more on anchor where the way the tides etc made the boat move was constantly in one direction.

Not that I know if having a swivel was actually beneficial, I will say I was in an anchorage that did spin my boat in a clockwise direction for the 3 or 4 weeks I was there at anchor. Almost at the end of that stay, a storm came through that was fairly substantial. The boat behind me did not make it through the night and ended up on the beach - destroyed.

My anchor did not move and my boat made it through the storm - we ran an anchor watch all night that night as it was a rough night.

Did my Mantus swivel help? I can't say. But I can say when I pulled my anchor two days after that storm my anchor chain was without any abnormal twists.

Do I feel you need a swivel? I think it depends on how you sail. If you spend a long time on anchor, a swivel may well be a useful addition. For short term anchoring, not so much.

dj

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Mantus swivel. Just check your safety (seizing) wires periodically to make sure all is right.

 

[rgranger]

I've always felt the main purpose of the swivel is when anchored in one spot for an extend e time. I spent about a month at anchor a couple times. You don't necessarily go back and forth. I've been anchored where the boat spin consistently in one direction. The swivel doesn't straighten the chain, it helps reduce induced twist . My gypsy straightens the chain.

dj

I think @dLj hit it. A swivel helps If you Are leaving your anchor down for an extended stay

 

[Foswick]

I chuckled yesterday when I realized that after talking about how I feel swivels don't really solve a problem I have experienced, I noticed that our new boat has a swivel. I wouldn't install one, but I won't remove the one I have either.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I think @dLj hit it. A swivel helps If you Are leaving your anchor down for an extended stay

It also makes it easier to rotate the anchor when it comes up the wrong way.