what?
and all cars have bumpers for that same reason but no one relies on them to avoid a problem.
Why not put a 9.9 outboard on my 320?
- Thread starter Ted10028
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well I could lock the steering wheel but you have a good point about seeing the dock. Most modern outboards have the shifter on the tiller handle with the throttle. They do make tiller handle extensions which maybe would help forward vision? if I were standing with the tiller handle pointed mostly up I'm not sure I would have enough leverage to turn the outboard so then maybe I have to spend the extra money on a remote control?
I owned an ODay 25 with a Chrysler Sailor 250 (9.9hp, 250lbs of thrust) for propulsion. I currently have a Mariner 19 with a 3hp equivalent electric outboard. Let me go through your points.
1) An outboard powered sailboat sucks in reverse. Even with the geared down, big prop Chrysler reverse takes time. Usually lots of cavitation in an emergency reverse, instead of stopping you. Same with my electric outboard. Unless you rig a remote throttle/shift, you have to reach the side of the outboard to shift it while it's in the lowered position. Easy to lose sight of everything else while you are fumbling for the gear shift. The electric outboard is much better in that reverse is twisting the tiller handle the other way, but it still has cavitation issues in reverse. When the electric outboard prop does grab in reverse, it tries to tilt itself out of the water. Steering with both the motor tiller and the rudder at the same time isn't going to happen. You either steer with one or the other - I use the rudder. Extreme control in reverse is a laugher.
2) Steering control if main steering is lost. A good point. I had the lower gudgeon break on the ODay 25 20 miles from Bimini in the middle of the night (enroute Bimini from Nassau, transom mounted rudder) Was able to drop anchor in the middle of the nowhere. In the morning, DW suggested steering with the outboard to get to Bimini. I was in my 20s at the time, and reaching over the transom to steer for 4 hours was a back breaker. Not sure I could do it again. But there you are. A valid reason for an outboard auxiliary.
3-5) Yes, you have a separate system for your outboard. But is it any more reliable than your Yanmar? On the Mariner, I had a 5hp Honda which gave starting anxiety, not range anxiety. I could never depend on getting that thing started. I am old and my shoulders are weaker than they once were. I ran it dry every time, used non-ethanol gas, and still could not get it started consistently. Last year, I gave up, sold the Honda, and bought the Epropulsion Spirit electric outboard. Unless you are using the outboard regularly, counting on getting it started is iffy unless it has electric start. The Chrysler did have electric start.
6) Again, you can't steer with both outboard and rudder at the same time. You pick one or the other. I use my tiller, and lock the outboard facing forward. Others steer with their outboards and lock their rudders.
7) Possibly true, but you won't be using the outboard at the same time as the main engine. You just can't coordinate the two well enough.
A suggestion to prove this to yourself. Borrow somebody's outboard - anything small will do. Temporarily mount it in the intended position. Then try to reach your tiller/wheel/engine controls while reaching the outboard controls.
Fred W
Stuart Mariner 19 #4133 SweetP
Yeopim Creek, Albemarle Sound, NC
A thoughtful and well presented acknowledgement and "things that should be said." All too true, and overdue. Thanks very much for telling it like it is.
Great information. Thanks so much. I'm realizing now that if I do this I would be wise to do it with remote controls on the outboard or perhaps a long extension handle on the outboard.
it would be great if I could borrow an outboard to experiment but realistically I would have to drill holes to put a folding extention mount on. not sure I want to do that. I wintered next to a guy with a mounted outboard and I could see the holes from failed attempts to mount it in the right place.
i'm hoping that small engine technology has evolved to the point where starting is fairly easy. I bought a 20 hp snowblower 10 years ago that starts first pull every season even with last seasons gasoline in it. I don't even buy Stabil anymore. I do remember when I was a kid my father taking the Toro snowblower into the kitchen at night before a snow storm so that it would start easier in the morning and even then it was a nightmare to get started. it took me decades to get over my fear of small engines.
my plan would be to use the outboard primarily in tight spaces. I would start the yanmar ,put it in neutral and lock the wheel in whatever direction would help me make the turn. then I would start the outboard and use it like a stern thruster to help me make the turn. if you get time please let me know what you think. Thanks again
I don't think it's going to help you as much as you want or think. But I don't have the experience to know. In my experience, when things are tight, things are always happening too fast for to get an outboard started, and used while coordinating/trying to prevent a dock crash. I only dock much lighter sailboats, which are more easily blown about by the wind - especially if I have to pull the centerboard up due to shallow water.
I always get my motor lowered and started well before approaching a dock or lift - if I am going to use the motor. Both the boats can be "sculled" for 50 yards using the tiller, and this is a good option in calm to light winds. Better than rowing or paddling. Again, not applicable to a wheel-steered boat.
Sails up or down makes a huge difference in windage. I have a downhaul on the jib, so can quickly douse the jib. Under duress (motor wouldn't start), I have docked and/or gotten the boat on the lift under sail. The Mariner has a big mainsail and small jib so getting the main down early, and sculling as needed is usually the best motorless option.
But again, this is how I do things on trailerable size sailboats. My Mariner sailboat is normally on a boat lift that is perpendicular to the prevailing wind. And the center board has to be all the way up to get on the lift. Makes things interesting. Glad the boat is small enough to manhandle (1500lb displacement).
Fred W
Stuart Mariner 19 #4133 Sweet P
I always get my motor lowered and started well before approaching a dock or lift - if I am going to use the motor. Both the boats can be "sculled" for 50 yards using the tiller, and this is a good option in calm to light winds. Better than rowing or paddling. Again, not applicable to a wheel-steered boat.
Sails up or down makes a huge difference in windage. I have a downhaul on the jib, so can quickly douse the jib. Under duress (motor wouldn't start), I have docked and/or gotten the boat on the lift under sail. The Mariner has a big mainsail and small jib so getting the main down early, and sculling as needed is usually the best motorless option.
But again, this is how I do things on trailerable size sailboats. My Mariner sailboat is normally on a boat lift that is perpendicular to the prevailing wind. And the center board has to be all the way up to get on the lift. Makes things interesting. Glad the boat is small enough to manhandle (1500lb displacement).
Fred W
Stuart Mariner 19 #4133 Sweet P
Curious minds want to know, what were the causes of engine failure in both of those cases ?
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interestingly , according to tow boat USA 54% of toes are caused by mechanical breakdown, next is grounding at 12%, then batteries at 9% fuel is 8% and overheating is 4%. All but one can be eliminated with back up power.
Since around 2011, small gas engines have gotten a lot worse in reliability thanks to the EPA (I don't recall the exact year the EPA requirements on small gas engines kicked in). That combined with the banning of 2 stroke outboard engines from many waters has made small outboards a lot less reliable but a lot more efficient and certainly less polluting. The change of gasoline additives to ethanol has exacerbated the problems with carburetors and tiny passages on small gas engines.
Basically, if you don't use non-ethanol gas and Stabil or similar, you will have a gummed up carb if the gas sits for even a month. Condensation in the tank, and ethanol in the gas causes separation into layers of the different components, and one of those is a gummy mess. Even the 115hp outboard on my center console skiff has to be run at high power at least once a month to keep it clean and performing. And that's with non-ethanol gas and Stabil.
Once you have a clogged carburetor, you will end up with sore shoulders unless you have electric start. Nothing gets better until you clean the carb. This applies to lawn mowers, chain saws, and small outboard motors. Using them frequently enough to keep the carb clean is the key to a small gas engine running well.
Fred W
This thread is going no where except in a circle.
The "yes, but..." responses show the OP is not really interested in learning, he's simply wanting someone to say he has a brilliant idea and he should go and do that. Reality is, putting an OB on a 32 Catalina is a foolish waste of money that will not improve his docking skills.
So, @Ted10028, if you want waste your time and money on mounting an outboard on your boat, just do it, because no matter how often we point out the flaws in your thinking and point out the problem is your lack of boating skills, you don't listen, you only come back with a "yes but" answer. That my friend is trolling, which is not tolerated on most forums and certainly not on SBO.
The "yes, but..." responses show the OP is not really interested in learning, he's simply wanting someone to say he has a brilliant idea and he should go and do that. Reality is, putting an OB on a 32 Catalina is a foolish waste of money that will not improve his docking skills.
So, @Ted10028, if you want waste your time and money on mounting an outboard on your boat, just do it, because no matter how often we point out the flaws in your thinking and point out the problem is your lack of boating skills, you don't listen, you only come back with a "yes but" answer. That my friend is trolling, which is not tolerated on most forums and certainly not on SBO.
All can be eliminated with experience and planning. An outboard isnt a good substitute for either.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,149
I find this is an inciteful statement.
Having spent 30 years with small craft handleing while under power, there are plenty of failures. What happens as you persit is you learn to deal with the failures and you make less of them as you build your experience.
Single outboards have tended to be the worst experience. Inboard single engines require an feel for Prop Wash push that happens Spring lines are the professional boat handelers go to. Twin prop systems and bow thrusters for boats over 45ft LOA are all most like cheating.
Not needed but handy and resolve a number of issues of lack of experience.
Spending a lot of money for a reduntant system that you likely will never need feels wrong. Mispace priorities. But hey... THis is a free country. You get to do what ever you like with your boat
It you want ot paint it pink.. I say GO FOR IT!....
No engine failure…but both instances were self-inflicted
.First time, I was accustomed to dragging a rope behind the boat in hopes that should I fall off the boat while single-handed, that I could grab the rope and self-rescue. I didn’t notice that the rope had sunk and when zimstartedbthe engine and put here in gear, I wrapped the rope atound the prop really good
. I was right outside the marina when this little mishap occurred. I tried sailing through the S-curves into the marina, but a powerboat came to my rescue and pulled me in to the fuel dock.I no longer drag a rope. Lesson learned
The second issue was on a beautiful sail with oldest son. He was at the helm, and I was bored…so I decided to water the batteries. They were down quite a bit, so I gave each cell a big drink of water…a few minutes later, my son yelled down to me that the instraments just went out
.I checked the old analog volt meter and sure enough…the batteries (both batteries) were flat. I realized I had no power to start the engine, so we sailed back to the marina….and a buddy towed me In from there.
Lesson learned….dont water both batteries at the same time, unless on shore power. And check them way more frequently to keep the water topped up.
So those were 2 learning moments for me
Greg
Noooooooooo. Those two stories are your open ended invitation to join the local cocktail circuit for the next, oh .......... let's say year or two.So those were 2 learning moments for me
Without stories like that, you don't get invited nowhere.
I don’t think the issue is -if it can be done -as -is there any advantage to do it.
Well, an outboard kicker is standard issue for a boat like mine. I had learned to sail out and in the marina and bay without a motor of any kind in a Ranger 26. Predictable winds helped, but it was just the way Dad did it, so we did too.
On a larger boat, it is cheap insurance, I say.
On a larger boat, it is cheap insurance, I say.
I agree. It is much cheaper, more powerful, and more versatile than a stern thruster.
You are wrong. If it was such a good idea a lot more boats would have them. Since sailboats with functioning inboards with outboards on their transoms are about as common as hens teeth, there has to be a reason. It is way past time to stop beating this dead horse. Go spend your time and money installing an outboard on your boat and come back next fall and tell us and show us how well it worked.
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