Sorting out battery charger and shore power questions

[chriscampbell]

I'm the new owner of a '93 Catalina Capri 26. It has shore power and an AC distribution panel, with two batteries. There is a brand new NOCO Genius GenPro 10x3 charger installed that is NOT connected to the rest of the system. I have to plug it in directly from an extension cord. I would like to be able to charge the batteries while plugged into shore power. How is this normally done, or is this situation completely non-standard? Thanks for the help, as always.

 

[Tally Ho]

On my boat, similarly set up it sounds like, my battery charger is powered by a breaker on the AC panel.

So, if I am connected to shore power, and that breaker is on, my batts are charging.

Do you have breaker for the battery charger in the panel?

Greg

 

[chriscampbell]

On my boat, similarly set up it sounds like, my battery charger is powered by a breaker on the AC panel.

So, if I am connected to shore power, and that breaker is on, my batts are charging.

Do you have breaker for the battery charger in the panel?

Greg

Yes, there is a switch and breaker labeled “battery charger”, but the current charger is not wired into the panel. There is just a plug to the charger laying in the quarter berth. I considered running an extension cord to one of the outlets, but the nearest one is the galley.

 

[jviss]

Yes, there is a switch and breaker labeled “battery charger”, but the current charger is not wired into the panel. There is just a plug to the charger laying in the quarter berth. I considered running an extension cord to one of the outlets, but the nearest one is the galley.

Well, it can certainly be hardwired-in. If you are not knowledgable about this have a professional do it.

So, where is the charger mounted?

 

[chriscampbell]

Well, it can certainly be hardwired-in. If you are not knowledgable about this have a professional do it.

So, where is the charger mounted?

It’s in the quarter berth on the aft bulkhead. Here is a photo.

 

[jviss]

Thanks for the quick reply! Wow, that's an odd place to mount it. Maybe you can find a better place, say, in or close to the battery compartment, and have someone hardwire it to the AC panel for you?

 

[chriscampbell]

Thanks for the quick reply! Wow, that's an odd place to mount it. Maybe you can find a better place, say, in or close to the battery compartment, and have someone hardwire it to the AC panel for you?

That’s actually right between the battery compartment and the panel. The wires you see on the right are coming from the batteries.

 

[jviss]

That’s actually right between the battery compartment and the panel. The wires you see on the right are coming from the batteries.

I see. Are you handy with electrical stuff on a boat?

 

[chriscampbell]

I see. Are you handy with electrical stuff on a boat?

Ha, well, I’m handy in general and not afraid to tackle projects if I can get enough information to do it right. But I would say I’m a beginner with boat electrical.
I’m assuming since the panel has a breaker for a charger that there was a charger wired in originally that was replaced with this new one and they just didn’t bother tying it back into the system.

 

[jviss]

Ha, well, I’m handy in general and not afraid to tackle projects if I can get enough information to do it right. But I would say I’m a beginner with boat electrical.
I’m assuming since the panel has a breaker for a charger that there was a charger wired in originally that was replaced with this new one and they just didn’t bother tying it back into the system.

That's probably so. Just be careful! There are a lot of experts here on this forum. Find out the right wire, how to route and secure it, and connect it, and you'll be fine.

 

[Tally Ho]

I would start by trying to figure out where the wires go from the breaker…

My battery charger is located in my lazzarette. But of course I have a different boat.

if you can trace the wires, you might find where the original charger was located.

You could perhaps wire an outlet near the charger, that is switched by the breaker on the panel…


Greg

 

[chriscampbell]

I would start by trying to figure out where the wires go from the breaker…

My battery charger is located in my lazzarette. But of course I have a different boat.

if you can trace the wires, you might find where the original charger was located.

You could perhaps wire an outlet near the charger, that is switched by the breaker on the panel…


Greg

That’s a good suggestion. I may go ahead and run a cord to an outlet for now while I investigate - just so it’s easier to charge.

 

[chriscampbell]

Just a little follow up...here is a diagram of how we're currently set up.

 

[jssailem]

You have a bit going on Chris in that diagram.

First let me share a great link.

Making Sense of Automatic Charging Relays - Marine How To

Making Sense of the ACR WARNING: ACR's are not for use with LiFePO4 Batteries! What is an ACR? An ACR is nothing more than a fully automatic, voltage triggered, BOTH/PARALLEL switch that closes when charging voltage is present and opens

marinehowto.com

@Maine Sail has shared a wealth of sailboat electrical knowledge here in the forum Musings With Maine Sail
and on his website in the above link.

Your diagram is a great place to start. You show multiple charge sources going to different paths. This can be a problem.

Let’s explore just the alternator for now. When I run my engine I want the charge power to be shared among my batteries. Generally the house battery is more depleted so I want to get it back to full before I stop for the night. When it is full I want to spill the excess over to the start battery. For years owners would use a manual switch to flip the charge from battery to battery. Being sailors they would sometimes forget. One or both batteries would be depleted. A clever solution was designed. An automatic relay placed between the House and Starter battery. Problem resolved.

Now both batteries get charged and sailors can focus on the thousand other issues.

There are many solutions to these electrical challenges for boat owners in the two links above. They are designed to make the system work and keep you and the boat safe.

 

[chriscampbell]

You have a bit going on Chris in that diagram.

First let me share a great link.

Making Sense of Automatic Charging Relays - Marine How To

Making Sense of the ACR WARNING: ACR's are not for use with LiFePO4 Batteries! What is an ACR? An ACR is nothing more than a fully automatic, voltage triggered, BOTH/PARALLEL switch that closes when charging voltage is present and opens

marinehowto.com

@Maine Sail has shared a wealth of sailboat electrical knowledge here in the forum Musings With Maine Sail
and on his website in the above link.

Your diagram is a great place to start. You show multiple charge sources going to different paths. This can be a problem.

Let’s explore just the alternator for now. When I run my engine I want the charge power to be shared among my batteries. Generally the house battery is more depleted so I want to get it back to full before I stop for the night. When it is full I want to spill the excess over to the start battery. For years owners would use a manual switch to flip the charge from battery to battery. Being sailors they would sometimes forget. One or both batteries would be depleted. A clever solution was designed. An automatic relay placed between the House and Starter battery. Problem resolved.
View attachment 219545
Now both batteries get charged and sailors can focus on the thousand other issues.

There are many solutions to these electrical challenges for boat owners in the two links above. They are designed to make the system work and keep you and the boat safe.

Thank you for the good information and response. I'll take a look at the links you provided.

Here is a bit more information about what is going on in my diagram.

* The motor (outboard) is connected directly to the starter battery. I don't need to switch anything on for it to start.
* The charger is connected directly to both batteries independently. The charger is not connected to the panel or shore power system. It must be plugged in separately.
* I do need to use the 1/2/All switch to use the house lights and various accessories.
* Shore power works for the 110 outlets when plugged in.
* The solar controller (for 10watt trickle charger) is connected directly to the house battery. This is the only piece of this system installed by me.

 

[chriscampbell]

I don't see a dedicated electrical forum. I originally started this discussion in "catalina owners" but thought I might move it here since it's not Catalina-specific.

I've done quite a bit of reading and research, including reading the posts by mainsail and other articles on setting up batteries in parallel and using the 1/2/both DC switch. I'm just looking to learn as much as I can from your feedback.

This is a new-to-me Catalina Capri 26. Everything is as I received it except for the solar trickle charger, which I installed.

My goal was to be able to charge the batteries while on shore power and keep the batteries happy with the trickle charger (especially over the winter).

I guess I'm looking for a couple of pieces of feedback: 1) do you see any immediate major problems with this configuration that I should be concerned about, and 2) are there any straight-forward changes I should make that would be an improvement. I realize that in this setup my trickle charger is only charging the house battery.

Here is a description of the current state of things as shown in the diagram:

* The motor (outboard) is connected directly to the starter battery. I don't need to switch anything on for it to start.
* The charger is connected directly to both batteries independently. The charger is not connected to the panel or shore power system. It must be plugged in separately. (for now I'm thinking that I will plug this into an outlet so I can use the shore power plug for charging when needed)
* I do need to use the 1/2/All switch to use the house lights and various accessories.
* Shore power works for the 110 outlets when plugged in.
* The solar controller (for 10watt trickle charger) is connected directly to the house battery. This is the only piece of this system installed by me.

 

[Dave]

Thread moved from the Catalina forums to Ask All Sailors as the OP had reposted the question here.

 

[LloydB]

I would like to recommend that you get rid of this current diagram and draw a DC diagram to the various points of connection as others have suggested. Should help you separate DC voltages from AC voltages and their source of connections also you might take a glance Mainsails advice galvanic corrosion and grounding.

 

[rgranger]

I see your battery peeking out ...

You could route the wires through some holes to clean that area up (Like I mocked up in this pic). If you do, put some bungs on the holes so the figerglass edges don't eat up the insulation on your wires. You can buy these at Lowes in the "hard to find parts" drawer in the hardware section (the pictures are hot links)


or like everything else, they are available on Amazon...



You said you are handy... so I would suggest you read this book and tackle the job yourself. On a catalina 22 the panel is not complicated AND if you do it yourself, you will know your system inside and out and you will be ready the next time something electric fails.

https://www.amazon.com/Sailboat-Electrics-Simplified-Don-Casey/dp/0070366497

 

[Richard19068]

I am far from an electrical expert, especially 110 shore power so I might be misinterpreting something here. First remember that it can kill you.

Your diagram has shore power (110 AC) and your batteries (12V DC) both going to one panel. Do you have a combined panel?

I assume the switch and breaker labeled “battery charger” you said were there are in the AC panel (or at least the AC side of a combined panel). In the short run, it sounds like what you want to do, in effect, is cut off the plug to your charger and hard wire it to the switch and breaker labeled “battery charger”. That sounds like it should be pretty straight forward after reading Don Casey's book referenced by rgranger.

Do keep in mind that the manual for your charger says "7.) A marine (boat) battery must be removed and charged on shore. To charge it on board requires equipment specially designed for marine use." I don't know why they tout the fact that it is an "on board" charger and then put that in the manual. Maybe only the lawyers talking but it is there.