Skimmar Seagull 12 Genaker

Aug 6, 2023
12
Skimmar Seagull 12 Tappahanok
Hi this is my first post on sailboat owners and after taking my skimmar seagull out in the water I had a dumb idea that I thought could work so I figured I would ask some people with a lot more experience than me as this is my first boat and I don’t have but about 6 months of experience the idea was could it be possible to put a genaker sail on it for better light wind sailing like I am doing like I say I apologize if this is a really dumb question but I guess you don’t know until you ask the mast is an 18 foot damco and I’ll add some pictures I will update with better photos in a little while as it is in the water right know and it’s fairly early in the morning any replys will be strongly appreciated



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Aug 6, 2023
12
Skimmar Seagull 12 Tappahanok
I apologize for my punctuation I’m not to good with it but I guess if I’m going to post on here I probably need to pay more attention to that.
 
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Aug 6, 2023
12
Skimmar Seagull 12 Tappahanok
I was also wondering what extra hardware would need to be added to the mast.
 
Apr 11, 2020
765
MacGregor 26s Scott's Landing, Grapevine TX
Welcome to the forum! While I share Joe's frustration with the lack of punctuation, I thought I should at least try to be helpful while expressing that sentiment:

"Hi! This is my first post on sailboat owners. After taking my Skimmar Seagull out in the water I had a dumb idea that I thought could work, so I figured I would ask some people with a lot more experience than me as this is my first boat and I don’t have but about 6 months of experience. The idea was could it be possible to put a genaker sail on it for better light wind sailing, like I am doing. Like I say I apologize if this is a really dumb question, but I guess you don’t know until you ask. The mast is an 18 foot Damco and I’ll add some pictures. I will update with better photos in a little while as it is in the water right know and it’s fairly early in the morning. any replys will be strongly appreciated."

Not a dumb idea at all, and your boat looks like a ton of fun!

Wanting a sail that I could use in light wind (especially on downwind runs), I am in the process of ordering a light wind genoa, which some refer to as a "drifter". In my case, I am ordering it without hanks (my foresails are hank-on as opposed to roller-furled), so instead of hanking the sail to the forestay, the tension between the head and the tack is what holds the luff in position to achieve proper shape for sailing. Gennaker rigging is, in essence, similar to spinnaker rigging and usually calls for a bowsprit, which your boat is not equipped with.

For my requirements (and perhaps yours?), the drifter is a logical choice. It is far simpler to deploy and manage since it does not require a bowsprit, spinnaker pole, and as many control lines. It also can be sailed to windward, though not as close to the wind as a standard foresail. For instance, on my boat my sailmaker (Mike Lipari at thesailwarehouse.com) says that I should be able to sail around 55 degrees to the wind (as opposed to the 40 to 45 degrees I can do with my regular jib). You can't do this with a spinnaker or a gennaker.

"My requirements" are a sail that:

-I can deploy and manage single-handedly and that my crew can handle without additional training. I know there are some sailors that can single-hand a gennaker, but it is significantly more complex a matter than managing a drifter.

-I can use to sail to windward. As mentioned, a drifter will not point as well as a regular foresail, but at least is usable beyond a beam reach, which a gennaker is not.

-Will not require the addition of winches, pulleys, cleats, or other hardware. I like to keep things simple. Mike is designing my sail to work with my current rigging.

-Stows easily. (Using .75 ounce nylon)

-Is reasonably affordable.

-Will not have too adverse an effect on my PHRF rating (only matters if you race).

After reviewing several options, I have decided to go with the drifter design. It probably will not perform quite as well as a gennaker or spinnaker, but I'm OK with as I feel the advantages outweigh that.

You had asked about the addition of mast hardware hardware. I would say regardless of what you go with, you will want to add a halyard pulley at or near the top of the mast. With a gennaker or spinnaker, you will likely need to add a bowsprit. This would be the most challenging addition.

Keep in mind that all of these solutions significantly complicate a course change (such as jibing) that would require changing which side of the boat the sail is flown on, but that just comes with the territory.

Hope this helps!
 
Last edited:
Jan 19, 2010
12,543
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I think you would want to put your light air drifter sail a bit forward of the forstay and sweep it back about half way past the mast. And adjust it so the "pocket" is about halfway between the bow and the mast.

Do a google for "homemade bowsprit". You will find a bunch of articles for carbon fiber sprits but your boat will not have to deal with the forces a carbon fiber sprit would endure. Find one that you can use for inspiration for your own design. Some aftermarket commercial bowsprits may also give you inspiration. You could buy one but they will likely cost more than what you paid for the boat.

This should be fun... we want pictures.
 
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Jan 19, 2010
12,543
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Looks like your boat could also benefit from a topping lift.
 
Aug 6, 2023
12
Skimmar Seagull 12 Tappahanok
Thanks rgranger I’ll definitely post pictures I think It will be fun as well.
 
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Jan 1, 2006
7,355
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I hate to be a stick in the mud but I don't see that much to be gained with a gennaker. You have a fractional rig with a really small foretriangle. I don't think the sail can be that large. It will live in the shadow of your main which is your main engine. It will be difficult to sail wing on wing without a pole. Going upwindish it will choke the slot when you try to sheet it in. I think there will be a very limited range in sailing angle and wind speed for which it would be useful.
I'd look at a symmetrical spinnaker, with a spinnaker pole for improved down wind performance. For upwind light air improvement on a fractional rig, a main with increased roach area is sometimes the ticket. You have no backstay so this is possible. You would want a single reef for windier days.
Don't want to spend that much? Sail it as is until you've learned what you can and if you still want better performance move to another boat.
 
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Jan 19, 2010
12,543
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
@shemandr makes some very good points. If you are willing to spring for a new main, consider getting a "fat head" mainsail. These are sort of a hybrid between a true Marconi rig and a Gaff rig. The main will have a small "gaff" at the head which allows the leech to sit back a few more inches.... and when multiplied over the entire area of the sail, notably increase the sail area. Here are some examples

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Aug 12, 2012
12
Catalina 30 MKII Pensacola
Hi this is my first post on sailboat owners and after taking my skimmar seagull out in the water I had a dumb idea that I thought could work so I figured I would ask some people with a lot more experience than me as this is my first boat and I don’t have but about 6 months of experience the idea was could it be possible to put a genaker sail on it for better light wind sailing like I am doing like I say I apologize if this is a really dumb question but I guess you don’t know until you ask the mast is an 18 foot damco and I’ll add some pictures I will update with better photos in a little while as it is in the water right know and it’s fairly early in the morning any replys will be strongly appreciated



View attachment 218535

View attachment 218536
Do you already sail with a jib? Just noticing how far forward the mast is situated…working on an improved mainsail as already suggested might be a good option.
 
Apr 11, 2020
765
MacGregor 26s Scott's Landing, Grapevine TX
Well, I'm kinda stuck with being a stick in the mud, so I will throw in with shemandr when he points out the small foretriangle and with rgranger's point regarding the advantage of adding a bowsprit with a drifter in order to maintain proper center of force balance.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,066
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Why not?
Welcome Mason to SBO.
I say why not, because I had the same idea in my Montgomery15. Put together the hardware. Sails made in a California loft.
She sailed like a dream.
First sail 2.jpeg
 
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Aug 6, 2023
12
Skimmar Seagull 12 Tappahanok
Just figured I’d ask, where does one find a sailmaker. I had some sails that needed to be made smaller to fit my skimmar.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,543
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Also what would be a good way to add a topping lift.
Put a small block at the top of the mast and run some paracord down to a cleat on the mast. The other end has a clip. Put a pad eye on the end of the boom
 
Apr 11, 2020
765
MacGregor 26s Scott's Landing, Grapevine TX
Just figured I’d ask, where does one find a sailmaker. I had some sails that needed to be made smaller to fit my skimmar.
Ideally you would like to find something close by. A Google search for is a good starting place, then ask around with anyone you think might know (maybe someone at this forum who lives in your area?).

If you can't find something locally, I can recommend Thesailwarehouse.com. Mike Lipari is the owner, and will be glad to consult with you to make a sail that suits your needs. I have found him to be very competitive in pricing.